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Post by karma67 on Jul 8, 2019 16:38:49 GMT
as you know ive been making cables of various types for a while,whilst doing some reading on diy audios website i see many posts saying coax is better for rca cable than 2 core unbalanced cable. so to try out this i found some cheap Webro WF100 cable i bought for the tv ages ago in the back of the cupboard. well i have to say it sounds bloody good through the cdp,the last time i tried coax was the van damme silver stuff and i wasn't very impressed. so what gives? why does this cheap stuff sound good? the specs are thus, |
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Post by dsjr on Jul 8, 2019 17:19:52 GMT
This kind of stuff always did sound good. Beware of some cheaper coax cables which *may* be copper plated aluminium. Just think, you could add a posh looking woven jacket to it, fit some fancy-foo plugs and lo and behold, you have a £500+ interconnect.
Regarding Van Damme, they do a flexible 'plasma' 75 ohm cable which I made up SSC style and fitted some simple RCA plugs to. Sounds bloomin' good to me. Another favourite but it's not flexible enough for current needs is 'Ecoflex 10' which is a very heavy duty rf cable and 10.6mm thick and difficult to find reasonably priced rca plugs for, although there's always the heat-shrink option I suppose...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2019 18:55:31 GMT
as you know ive been making cables of various types for a while,whilst doing some reading on diy audios website i see many posts saying coax is better for rca cable than 2 core unbalanced cable. so to try out this i found some cheap Webro WF100 cable i bought for the tv ages ago in the back of the cupboard. well i have to say it sounds bloody good through the cdp,the last time i tried coax was the van damme silver stuff and i wasn't very impressed. so what gives? why does this cheap stuff sound good? the specs are thus, Well shielded, decent materials. Why wouldn't it sound good! |
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 8, 2019 19:32:05 GMT
as you know ive been making cables of various types for a while,whilst doing some reading on diy audios website i see many posts saying coax is better for rca cable than 2 core unbalanced cable. so to try out this i found some cheap Webro WF100 cable i bought for the tv ages ago in the back of the cupboard. well i have to say it sounds bloody good through the cdp,the last time i tried coax was the van damme silver stuff and i wasn't very impressed. so what gives? why does this cheap stuff sound good? the specs are thus, It’s onky based on the few cables I’ve owned, but coax has been worse that twinned single cores every time. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2019 19:56:51 GMT
I've never picked coax over stranded, even when blind tested. Just saying that basics of that cable are correct so it shouldn't sound bad.
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Post by sq225917 on Jul 8, 2019 21:55:34 GMT
If one finds h9oax worse that's likely because of the high fixed impedance based on the geometry.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2019 5:34:22 GMT
If one finds h9oax worse that's likely because of the high fixed impedance based on the geometry. *Stares vacantly at the screen*
Isn't that to do with PCBs?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2019 20:09:54 GMT
My first foray into homebrew cables bought reasonably cheap from an amatuer maker are Klotz MC5000 with MS Audio plugs and they sound great better than the Chord Crimson they replaced.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2019 21:29:41 GMT
My first foray into homebrew cables bought reasonably cheap from an amatuer maker are Klotz MC5000 with MS Audio plugs and they sound great better than the Chord Crimson they replaced. I loathe Chord cables. Klotz isn't a bad beginner cable tbf. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2019 21:35:09 GMT
Let’s be honest, we are talking about small differences.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2019 21:52:41 GMT
Let’s be honest, we are talking about small differences. Not in my opinion. Suppose a lot of it depends on the gear in the chain. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2019 22:06:46 GMT
I have a pretty good idea of what is (was?) in the SPOTFIRE cable, based on the spec you posted on AOS a while back.
For the difference in price, the Klotz does very well for a cheap cable.
Sure, it is not the same, but you are probably about 95% of the way there.
Interestingly enough, I now use a rather nice pure silver cable myself, with AECO pure silver plugs as well. It is not massively different, and unless you are deliberately listening for a difference, then the Klotz comes across very well, and gives a good sense to the music. The silver cable is more HiFi, so sounds better, but I really don’t think the price difference justifies the performance gain.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2019 22:47:27 GMT
I have a pretty good idea of what is (was?) in the SPOTFIRE cable, based on the spec you posted on AOS a while back. For the difference in price, the Klotz does very well for a cheap cable. Sure, it is not the same, but you are probably about 95% of the way there. Interestingly enough, I now use a rather nice pure silver cable myself, with AECO pure silver plugs as well. It is not massively different, and unless you are deliberately listening for a difference, then the Klotz comes across very well, and gives a good sense to the music. The silver cable is more HiFi, so sounds better, but I really don’t think the price difference justifies the performance gain. Like I said, I suppose its all about what it's connecting together. I had a pair of MS Audio plugged Klotz MC5000 and honestly felt like someone had put a towel over the speakers. At the minute I have a set of MY205 by Klotz and apart from lacking a bit of weight in the sound, they are absolutely cracking cables. Utterly visceral and really quite transparent. As I said previously, I think cables can have as much impact as swapping a piece of you kit. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2019 23:52:41 GMT
I once tried a pair of Monster cable inters. They were all I had around at the time. Nevertheless they were golf plated plugs and copper cables.
I remember it well . I played 'A Nods as good as a wink ' by The Faces.
I played it with my then regular Chord Carnivals and then with the Monsters.
With the Monsters I couldn't here Rod Stewart's voice. Now , that might not necessarily be a bad thing but.... I never questioned cable effects again.
No change of amp or speakers could have had such a drastic effect.
Just saying.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2019 0:03:00 GMT
I once tried a pair of Monster cable inters. They were all I had around at the time. Nevertheless they were golf plated plugs and copper cables. I remember it well . I played 'A Nods as good as a wink ' by The Faces. I played it with my then regular Chord Carnivals and then with the Monsters. With the Monsters I couldn't here Rod Stewart's voice. Now , that might not necessarily be a bad thing but.... I never questioned cable effects again. No change of amp or speakers could have had such a drastic effect. Just saying. It's a very interesting area to me. I've had similar experiences where you swap cables and it feels like you've moved from the front row to the middle of the arena. I tried sommer cable once and it moved me outside the building 😆😆 Not in a bad way but just felt I was sat in the gods listening to a performance on a tiny stage, that was a fair distance away. It was interesting and also great to have that experience but I like a cable that gets you on stage with the band. My only surprise with this subject is that some people genuinely don't seem to have this same experience with cables. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2019 1:18:27 GMT
Well for £35 the Klotz cables are a bit of a steal and for now they're staying put no doubt there are better cables out there but in my experience with cables the more you pay the smaller the difference.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2019 8:08:45 GMT
Well for £35 the Klotz cables are a bit of a steal and for now they're staying put no doubt there are better cables out there but in my experience with cables the more you pay the smaller the difference. It all depends where you spend the money. Price isn't an indicatior of performance IME and there are gems like the Klotz out there and for £35, you've got a really good performaning set of cables. I kept mine for ages untill I experimented. I've learned to spend wisely, rather than follow the big band names, and think my system is all the better for it. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2019 8:20:01 GMT
Well for £35 the Klotz cables are a bit of a steal and for now they're staying put no doubt there are better cables out there but in my experience with cables the more you pay the smaller the difference. It all depends where you spend the money. Price isn't an indicatior of performance IME and there are gems like the Klotz out there and for £35, you've got a really good performaning set of cables. I kept mine for ages untill I experimented. I've learned to spend wisely, rather than follow the big band names, and think my system is all the better for it. I totally agree looking outside of what is generally thought of as the best can bring big rewards. I'm hoping to spend a lot less time working in the coming years and learning to solder electronics properly is something I fully intend to do as I believe it's the key to getting the best value from hifi. My comment that the more you spend the less you get is entirely from my own experience with big brand names and I'm absolutely up for being shown another way. |
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Post by macca on Nov 3, 2019 8:37:53 GMT
Those people would not accept there was a difference unless the test was blind and properly controlled. They might hear a difference in a sighted test but they will put it down to psychological factors. Which is understandable. It's been shown that if you play the same music twice, without changing anything, people will hear differences. Very hard to get away from how our brains work.
Personally I firmly believe that there can be real differences in some situations if the stars are aligned re the type of cables used and the characteristics of the equipment connecting them.
I would like to do properly controlled blind test with some combinations just to prove it but it isn't likely to happen. Ollie will recall when I showed him that the combination of Spotfire interconnects and NVA LS5 speaker cable would produce distortion in the bass on music that had a lot of mid-bass. This happened both on mine and his systems.
Not difficult to hear - I would take a blind test on that any day of the week, I'd even put money up to say I could spot it 20 times out of 20. That's not about thinking one cable sounds better than the other, or even just 'different', it's about spotting a blooming great artefact that shouldn't be there.
if all interconnects and speaker cables work exactly the same then that would be impossible, that distortion would not happen. Could not happen. So something is going on.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2019 13:18:09 GMT
Those people would not accept there was a difference unless the test was blind and properly controlled. They might hear a difference in a sighted test but they will put it down to psychological factors. Which is understandable. It's been shown that if you play the same music twice, without changing anything, people will hear differences. Very hard to get away from how our brains work. Personally I firmly believe that there can be real differences in some situations if the stars are aligned re the type of cables used and the characteristics of the equipment connecting them. I would like to do properly controlled blind test with some combinations just to prove it but it isn't likely to happen. Ollie will recall when I showed him that the combination of Spotfire interconnects and NVA LS5 speaker cable would produce distortion in the bass on music that had a lot of mid-bass. This happened both on mine and his systems. Not difficult to hear - I would take a blind test on that any day of the week, I'd even put money up to say I could spot it 20 times out of 20. That's not about thinking one cable sounds better than the other, or even just 'different', it's about spotting a blooming great artefact that shouldn't be there. if all interconnects and speaker cables work exactly the same then that would be impossible, that distortion would not happen. Could not happen. So something is going on. Yes, excellent point Macca. I remember it well. As u say, we didn't imagine it. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2019 13:59:06 GMT
If all speaker cable works the same way, substitute in some QED silver anniversary. That will change most opinions on the subject.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2019 14:03:47 GMT
If all speaker cable works the same way, substitute in some QED silver anniversary. That will change most opinions on the subject. Yes, it's horrible. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2019 15:02:15 GMT
Used some fancy Audioquest speaker cable once, I wanted to tear my ears off the stuff was so bright.
Very happy with Van den Hul D352 and CS122, it is a good compromise has a great mid range, and it takes the edge off which I like. And it is relatively affordable.
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Post by dsjr on Nov 3, 2019 19:12:37 GMT
Klotz MC5000 to me, sounds a little 'ripe' when new, but put some hours on it and it's fine. In direct A-B comparison, a new set of Mark Grant HD1500 cables 'sounded' a little leaner and 'sharper' and not in a good way either. I was convinced I could hear it (this in the days before my ears gummed up regularly). Six months regular use (one set to headphone amp and t'other to the speaker amps) and I'm damned if I could tell them apart at all. Easy audio con though - more detail? Add some high frequencies...
LS5 distorting bass? Mine doesn't (3m runs) and I used to play this set loudly. Sorry... I even used them with the Krell 50S macca with similar results... Oh dear... Wonder if your set was sub-standard in some way? It's only stranded wire ffs of different gauges and each strand being insulated shouldn't feck it up surely?...
Agree on the QED SA cable. we sold loads of it as it was demanded by the WTF crowd, but it was shite. later on when AV replaced the mid-level stereo market, QED Micro speaker cable was the rage and staff in the chain-shops sold it by the kilometre with absolutely no guilt as to the inline resistance over ten metres per side in some cases.. Now that market has faded away now, QED look as if their cables are somewhat better these days if the latest 79 strand is anything to go by...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2019 20:10:08 GMT
Klotz MC5000 to me, sounds a little 'ripe' when new, but put some hours on it and it's fine. In direct A-B comparison, a new set of Mark Grant HD1500 cables 'sounded' a little leaner and 'sharper' and not in a good way either. I was convinced I could hear it (this in the days before my ears gummed up regularly). Six months regular use (one set to headphone amp and t'other to the speaker amps) and I'm damned if I could tell them apart at all. Easy audio con though - more detail? Add some high frequencies... LS5 distorting bass? Mine doesn't (3m runs) and I used to play this set loudly. Sorry... I even used them with the Krell 50S macca with similar results... Oh dear... Wonder if your set was sub-standard in some way? It's only stranded wire ffs of different gauges and each strand being insulated shouldn't feck it up surely?... Agree on the QED SA cable. we sold loads of it as it was demanded by the WTF crowd, but it was shite. later on when AV replaced the mid-level stereo market, QED Micro speaker cable was the rage and staff in the chain-shops sold it by the kilometre with absolutely no guilt as to the inline resistance over ten metres per side in some cases.. Now that market has faded away now, QED look as if their cables are somewhat better these days if the latest 79 strand is anything to go by... Substandard? Lol. Jesus man! Maccas system is top class. To my ears it was absolutely excellent. The DCB1 we used is regarded as "Best in Class" by some and the the Krell KSA50s was described by you as a little clinical. How on earth to those components A) become substandard and B) Distort cables!? Truth of the matter is that when we took out the NVA (of old) speaker cables and replaced them, the distorted mids disappeared. In my experience this is a 100% accurate result. If you have a problem and solve it by replacing a specific cable, you can't blame the other components in the chain!!! This happened in TWO systems. We're they both shite??? |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2019 20:33:18 GMT
Read the post again Oli.
It is the speaker cable that is being referred to as possibly being sub-standard.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2019 21:18:38 GMT
Read the post again Oli. It is the speaker cable that is being referred to as possibly being sub-standard. Hahaha, Christ on a bike, my head nearly fell off when I read it the first time lol. Tha ks for the heads up. Yes Dave, maybe they had a fault. 🤭 |
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Post by dsjr on Nov 3, 2019 21:46:04 GMT
Klotz MC5000 to me, sounds a little 'ripe' when new, but put some hours on it and it's fine. In direct A-B comparison, a new set of Mark Grant HD1500 cables 'sounded' a little leaner and 'sharper' and not in a good way either. I was convinced I could hear it (this in the days before my ears gummed up regularly). Six months regular use (one set to headphone amp and t'other to the speaker amps) and I'm damned if I could tell them apart at all. Easy audio con though - more detail? Add some high frequencies... LS5 distorting bass? Mine doesn't (3m runs) and I used to play this set loudly. Sorry... I even used them with the Krell 50S macca with similar results... Oh dear... Wonder if your set was sub-standard in some way? It's only stranded wire ffs of different gauges and each strand being insulated shouldn't feck it up surely?... Agree on the QED SA cable. we sold loads of it as it was demanded by the WTF crowd, but it was shite. later on when AV replaced the mid-level stereo market, QED Micro speaker cable was the rage and staff in the chain-shops sold it by the kilometre with absolutely no guilt as to the inline resistance over ten metres per side in some cases.. Now that market has faded away now, QED look as if their cables are somewhat better these days if the latest 79 strand is anything to go by... Substandard? Lol. Jesus man! Maccas system is top class. To my ears it was absolutely excellent. The DCB1 we used is regarded as "Best in Class" by some and the the Krell KSA50s was described by you as a little clinical. How on earth to those components A) become substandard and B) Distort cables!? Truth of the matter is that when we took out the NVA (of old) speaker cables and replaced them, the distorted mids disappeared. In my experience this is a 100% accurate result. If you have a problem and solve it by replacing a specific cable, you can't blame the other components in the chain!!! This happened in TWO systems. We're they both shite??? You misread me - oh F#ck! I was suggesting the LS5 may be sub-standard, NOT the gear. Hell, I had the Krell 50S here for a good while and used it with my own LS5 with no obvious ill-effects. You know who made the cables up back then, so anything could be accidentally possible  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2019 21:47:05 GMT
Substandard? Lol. Jesus man! Maccas system is top class. To my ears it was absolutely excellent. The DCB1 we used is regarded as "Best in Class" by some and the the Krell KSA50s was described by you as a little clinical. How on earth to those components A) become substandard and B) Distort cables!? Truth of the matter is that when we took out the NVA (of old) speaker cables and replaced them, the distorted mids disappeared. In my experience this is a 100% accurate result. If you have a problem and solve it by replacing a specific cable, you can't blame the other components in the chain!!! This happened in TWO systems. We're they both shite??? You misread me - oh F#ck! I was suggesting the LS5 may be sub-standard, NOT the gear. Hahaha, I know, I did acknowledge that fact in the post above lol |
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Post by macca on Nov 4, 2019 7:43:20 GMT
Nothing to do with the LS5 on its own. I've used that with various combinations of equipment including NVA pre/power and NVA interconnects and it is fine. It does have 'bass' though compared to other cables.
it was the combination of LS5 with the Spotfire interconnects that produced the artefact in the bass.
I also have Klotz interconnects, the LS5 with the Klotz did not exhibit the same issue.
My point being that all cables, whether interconnects or speaker cable, don't necessarily sound the same. They can do, but not always. They can have an affect on the signal.
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