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Post by macca on May 7, 2020 11:36:35 GMT
The more boxes the better. Time to make a stand against the box reduction crowd.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 7, 2020 11:56:42 GMT
The more boxes the better. Time to make a stand against the box reduction crowd. No, I dont entirely agree. All those umbilicals are just aerials for RF. I might build a Mahoosive all in one music centre lol |
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Post by sq225917 on May 7, 2020 12:06:09 GMT
Their ability to couple noise to the circuit is a way down the scale compared to a chunky traffo.
If I was going ultimate hairshirt I'd put the power on the the front or underside panels and signal on the back to cut the internal power cable down to about a few cm instead of 30cm.
That might be measurable, might.
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Post by firebottle on May 7, 2020 13:31:11 GMT
Oli you forgot the hole.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 7, 2020 13:56:05 GMT
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Post by sq225917 on May 7, 2020 18:55:10 GMT
Still no reply from sylvian...
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 7, 2020 19:21:19 GMT
Still no reply from sylvian... Wow......wasnt there an accusation of this behaviour from him before? |
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Post by sq225917 on May 7, 2020 20:06:22 GMT
Dunno, should have paid more attention I guess, I lost 2k euro when that German twat gazumped an entire group buy to the tune of about 30k a few years back
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 7, 2020 21:45:36 GMT
Dunno, should have paid more attention I guess, I lost 2k euro when that German twat gazumped an entire group buy to the tune of about 30k a few years back Jeez! Hopefully hes just preoccupied with something. Everything I ordered arrived so maybe it's a storm in a tea cup |
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Post by electronumpty on May 7, 2020 21:58:48 GMT
He was fine when I dealt with him. Hope it works out.
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Post by sq225917 on May 8, 2020 13:44:05 GMT
I've bought off him three times now, first two arrived fine. I'm not arsed until I need them.
He has posted since i pmd him just not on the paradise thread, which is bad form.
I'll give him a week, then I'll Sh#t on every post he makes.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 8, 2020 16:48:06 GMT
I've bought off him three times now, first two arrived fine. I'm not arsed until I need them. He has posted since i pmd him just not on the paradise thread, which is bad form. I'll give him a week, then I'll Sh#t on every post he makes. That is poor form. Every post should be Sh#t on. I agree |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2020 16:59:14 GMT
Would like to see the measurable line ripple voltage around <200uv before entering the main circuit pathway to stage do you feel your updates will achieve this Simon?
The best phono stage line ripple I have ever seen was a Russian unit that had a dual 18Vdc rails that produced a mere 118uv rock steady without the use of multiple paralleled ultra low noise LT chips.
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Post by gninnam on May 8, 2020 17:18:25 GMT
The more boxes the better. Time to make a stand against the box reduction crowd. No, I dont entirely agree. All those umbilicals are just aerials for RF. I might build a Mahoosive all in one music centre lol Look at my Blog - currently building one  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2020 18:37:40 GMT
I have found the measurement for that silly $$ Russian phono stage I looked at earlier in the year, on the (+) rail before entering the circuit board at the very short umbilical plug end and before any of the rather amazing regulation circuits they had put together it was averaging around 220uv from toroidal transformer. Other points in the circuit it was indicating below 100uv and accuracy on the measurement device with regard to power analysis is industry standard reference (£126K device) until you enter volt nut territory with there 10 digit plus meters!
Note the FFT (fast Fourier transforms) is at 5Hz resolution on the first image very fine tolerance the second image shows the full suite of both AC and DC results including the harmonics on the incoming ac side as well. Also note the measurement bandwidth on this is 20Mhz first image and 200Khz on the second) somewhat higher than the 50Hz mains frequency as you can clearly see the the noise extends well beyond human hearing ranges, however it has an effect on the electronic devices contained within the equipment itself.
On the first image we also took a very close look at the most noisiest part of the frequency spectrum with this power supply around the 1Khz mark and used the spectrum view with a resolution bandwidth of 5Hz
This is real laboratory equipment not audio analysers no matter how good they are, the cost of the Tru-Vue optical measurement probe alone on this unit is more expensive than either a Rhode and Schwarz UPV or Audio precision APX555 audio measurement suites
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Attachments:
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Post by firebottle on May 8, 2020 19:38:48 GMT
There's an awful lot of harmonics.
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Post by sq225917 on May 8, 2020 19:53:58 GMT
I dont have the ability to make such detailed measurements on the psu, obs.
Last time I had one properly measured.
A-weighted S/N -85dBA, THD 0.007%
That was a full spec, two box build.
I've not found a quieter mc phono with the same gain.
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Post by firebottle on May 9, 2020 6:53:16 GMT
What is the gain Si?
It's certainly the quietest phono stage I have come across. Played a well know track yesterday and it was OMG.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2020 11:07:37 GMT
There's an awful lot of harmonics.
Hi Alan
I would expect this type of harmonic content from UK mains especially around the 3rd/5th and seventh nodes which vary between -35 up-to -19dbv Iin the example on the previous page) always the odd harmonics which derive the highest peaks from the fundamental. Do bear in mind this is the actual entry AC voltage at the exit point of the IEC being measured before any AC line filtration and CE standard specifications for the CISPR targets are introduced into the circuit pathway.
However the end result is line ripple voltage noise which is critical in that application also many others, we have just finished an ADC (non audio) which sports a line ripple noise of under 10uv (Which is pretty close one thousandth smaller noise than one thousandth of a volt) which it needs to have due to the nature of it's end use.
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Post by sq225917 on May 9, 2020 11:34:58 GMT
Gain is 63db with the house riaa curve.
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Post by sq225917 on May 9, 2020 11:44:25 GMT
It really is very quiet for such a high gain phono. Theres mm stages with better raw snr, but they are 23db less gain so still 10db worse when you factor in gain. There not another widely available mc stage to touch it. Not linn, naim, trilogy, spectral, ch precision, boulder, none of them. I'm not sure what syn8 gets from his hps5.1 diy effort, I know it's very very good, probably in the 80s. Hugely worth reading www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/167360-hps-5-1-a.htmlNot sure if he still has gerbers, I hand did the solder mask for the pcb when he did a small GB. Only project I ever gave up on, the smt was beyond me at the time. |
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Post by firebottle on May 9, 2020 12:16:47 GMT
Thanks Si.
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Post by firebottle on May 9, 2020 12:22:06 GMT
(Which is pretty close one thousandth smaller noise than one thousandth of a volt)
Thanks. I understand the uV levels as I am a radio ham who has designed and built much kit, including microwave TV transmitters and receivers on 1.25Ghz, even a !0Ghz amateur TV repeater station. Good times, though the activity has gone now with the proliferation of the internet. |
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2020 16:17:34 GMT
Thanks. I understand the uV levels as I am a radio ham who has designed and built much kit, including microwave TV transmitters and receivers on 1.25Ghz, even a !0Ghz amateur TV repeater station. Good times, though the activity has gone now with the proliferation of the internet.
Hi Alan
Yes things do have a habit of moving on do they not, for example car radar technology uses 86Ghz just bonkers a few years ago, the cost of designing, testing this standard of equipment is quite something. Our firm spent just over seven figures purchasing three pieces of equipment for just this purpose, plain madness so fat assed bankers can fall asleep and get a warm feeling when they get to close to a car in front  |
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Post by firebottle on May 9, 2020 16:23:11 GMT
Madness indeed.
How would have thought 86GHz a few years ago?
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2020 17:14:24 GMT
Madness indeed. How would have thought 86GHz a few years ago?
Do not get me started, spec's for the PCIE 4 format need you require a scope with a 24Ghz bandwidth now the yanks have given the nod to 6G life is going to get very complex in the not to distant future.
Anyhow low noise is key for audio without question.
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Post by electronumpty on May 9, 2020 17:17:05 GMT
It really is very quiet for such a high gain phono. Theres mm stages with better raw snr, but they are 23db less gain so still 10db worse when you factor in gain. There not another widely available mc stage to touch it. Not linn, naim, trilogy, spectral, ch precision, boulder, none of them. I'm not sure what syn8 gets from his hps5.1 diy effort, I know it's very very good, probably in the 80s. Hugely worth reading www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/167360-hps-5-1-a.htmlNot sure if he still has gerbers, I hand did the solder mask for the pcb when he did a small GB. Only project I ever gave up on, the smt was beyond me at the time. Blimey not surprised you gave up on that, the amount of smd work is mental.  |
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Post by sq225917 on May 9, 2020 18:33:28 GMT
Yeh 360 odd bits that have to go in the right order. They do sound d very like the linn uphorik though.
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Post by firebottle on May 10, 2020 16:24:55 GMT
Made a start today to explore a one box build of the Paradise. I have moved the two main boards to the rear of the case.  I have fitted temporary heat sinks on the Calvin buffer output transistors and ordered some more suitable to mount on the pcbs. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 10, 2020 16:40:25 GMT
PSU going across the front and side?
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