Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,434
|
Post by Bigman80 on May 6, 2018 15:23:47 GMT
I bought two current hifi mags to make the flight less tedious and I thought I'd share a few reflections since I hadn't even browsed them in a while. I figured it would allow a bit more of an outsider view. First thing that struck me was the plasticky tat that fetches 6-7k a pop these days. Biggest excess was a pretty but unexceptional looking pair of Raidho floorstanders for up to £42k. The prices aren't too well displayed so my first read through was done without really seeing them. I got a big shock when I did. All I can say is that I'm even more convinced that you'd be crazy to buy most of the stuff in these mags for new price when there is far better built stuff out there used, for a fraction of the new kit prices. Second thing was what Antonio had already warned me of. Everything reviewed is between 4.5 and 5 stars. Really? Somehow that seems to remove any point from reviewing. If it all scores the same and you won't call a spade a spade, why be a reviewer? (Rhetorical question) Third thing was just how big a "fad" a lot of vintage stuff has become. The same reviewers who were telling us to dump old Quads, Garrards, Sansuis, Fons' Thorens' etc etc are now drooling over them because they are trendy. There was a big feature on the Tonbridge Audiojumble and nothing pictured looked good value to me, yet they were raving over it all like it was some newly rediscovered treasure, Next, the reviewers themselves: Pretty much the same bunch that were around in the 80s. That surprised me but at least it gave me some familiar faces. I used to enjoy their monthly opinion pages back in the day but this feature was probably the biggest disappointment of all. Nobody had a single worthwhile thing to say. Wireless active speakers, the acoustic properties of snow (not kidding), Music that accompanied the Test Card (again not kidding) and female empowerment in music featuring The Spice Girls! These guys get paid fir such drivel? I came away feeling pretty alienated from modern kit. Not a single product in either mag will be something I seek out at any point. Even things like the new NAD 3020 are just T amps with a familiar name as a fig leaf. I'd really like to find something positive to say about the mags of today, but after a day looking at two of them I'm left scratching my head. I'm really glad I lived my hifi life in an earlier era and doubly glad I know enough not to listen to the magazine gurus who seem to know even less than I thought. Feel free to disagree. It's just my opinion from reading two current mags. Maybe another month may have yielded a different result, but I came away depressed at the fact that hifi as I see it is now a thing of the past. Only available via EBay, forums, enthusiasts and 2nd hand dealers. Still, it shouldn't affect me as there are scores of great things out there that the hifi fashionistas and fake gurus haven't yet "discovered". Still plenty to play with and I can forget having to spend cash on magazines to read about them. Maybe every cloud does indeed have a silver lining
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2018 17:08:28 GMT
shocking these jokers got away with all this tripe they spewed for many years. before the net that's all us idiots had to go on
how many times did i buy the latest so called 5 star product only to get it home and find it was utter garbage.
all those 1990's and 2000 mission speakers for starters ..bought and sold on loads..utter junk..lingo 5 star lol,,utter fekin junk
lucky for us nerds today with fine places like this..the net exposed rip off merchants like linn.. 5 star reviews my fekin ass..was all back handers
|
|
|
Post by macca on Jul 29, 2018 18:35:30 GMT
I've not read one for a long time now although used to get HFW every month and occasionally HFN and HFC.
Stopped because there was too much computer audio, too much about DACS and then when page long reviews of interconnects and mains cables came along I made my excuses and left.
I don't mind a subjective review if it is an interesting and entertaining read but they rarely are which makes them totally pointless. I know they don't get paid much for them but if you're no good at something then stop doing it.
I don't mind them reviewing the crazy money stuff. That should be the most interesting because you'd expect it to be cutting edge at that price. I can never afford it but I'd happily watch Clarkson review a supercar I could not afford because at least he is amusing. But it rarely is and the reviewer is rarely doing anything other than go through the motions. I think they work to a 6 step template:
1) Say a few complimentary words about the manufacturer, mention their other products you have heard and rate.
2) Describe the product by lifting wholesale from the manufacturer's brochure. Write as though you don't really understand or care about any of the technical stuff. But don't skimp on this bit, this section pads the review out nicely without you having to think of anything of your own to say.
3) Blab on at length about your system that you will be using the item in, paying special attention to the powercords, cables and whatever nonsense gadgets you are deploying. (This section is optional for UK reviewers but essential for American reviewers. The best Yank pundits can make this section the longest part of the review).
4) Say a few words about build quality and WAF - this is the only part of the review where you can be negative but don't overdo it and stress it is personal opinion only.
5) And so onto how it sounds! You've only got it for a short time and they are only paying you £300 for the whole review, plus you have a life and probably a proper job as well so the reality is if you can get a couple of hours with it you'd be doing well. Don't let that worry you, in the land of the blind the one-eyed man is king and 99% of people who read the review will never have heard or will never hear whatever it is you are reviewing so you should be safe.
You will need to name 4 or 5 artists that you had a listen with. One should be classical, one jazz and the other 3 rock/pop. Try to be elitist and pick at least a couple of artists most normal people would never have heard of, let alone heard.
If you have met the artists even better, make sure you mention that. You should mention at least a couple of instruments e.g 'Acoustic guitar really came to life' or 'Piccolo was reproduced with a superbly clean voice.' Don't be picky and even if the kit is very sub-par you do not say so directly. Instead you say something like 'It was with simple, acoustic music where the 'X' most shone.'
6) Conclusion: Say you liked it, could live with it even, suggest it is a bit of a bargain (even if it is £100K), suggest the reader gets a demo (if they can get you on the forecourt they can flog you something at least, even if it's only a new TT mat or a mains cable) and then give it at least 4 stars/globes/onions.
Nowt to it lads - £300 for an hour's work (a bit longer if you actually do listen to it of course but then you were probably going to listen to music anyway at some point so you can't really count that). That's more than Rudy earns. Job's a good 'un.
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Jul 29, 2018 19:16:32 GMT
Pal HiFi Dave pays for a small ad in HFN so gets a free copy. On the occasions I visit (not as often as perhaps I'd like now), I usually get a gander at the latest issue and usually I feel sick at the worship of cheap circuits in expensive clothes and the £2k+ price tags.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2018 23:33:03 GMT
Macca, good template! :-D (Tho I haven’t read a magazine for a while.)
Re the absence of bad reviews, I assume that in most cases if a reviewer can’t write a positive review about a product (for whatever reason), then no review is written. If that’s the case it’s a pretty big flaw.
Also I imagine that the magazines are propped up by their advertising revenue, and so by the sponsors who place those ads. Sponsors whose products are the very subjects of the reviews. Hardly a recipe for impartiality. Unconscious bias in hifi opinions and editorial decisions might occur for a range of subtle reasons (packaging, bling factor, previous personal buying choices and brand loyalty). Add in the existential threat that might result from biting the hand that feeds you, and it would be surprising if one’s expressed views were not corrupted to some degree.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 2:25:28 GMT
Aye....I think you pretty much nailed it Macca.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 3:43:12 GMT
back handers plain and simple..back in the day i remember buying a mission cyrus 2 ok..was never happy with it..then loaned a battleship akia amp from a dealer..wow it was amazing..ofc i never swapped over because the akia was not rated. strange how many of us thought back then aye? some rated kit was ok though..audiolab 8000a for one..loved those amps..build quality was amazing aswell..all for about 300 quid if i remember rightly
|
|
|
Post by antonio on Jul 30, 2018 5:31:34 GMT
Agree with your thoughts Macca. I was reading (more like scanning) one yesterday, turned to my brother "how can you review speakers and not mention what amp is used". Mind you, if you want to see how reviewers can really babble on look at the '6 moons' reviews.
|
|
|
Post by macca on Jul 30, 2018 6:46:27 GMT
With 6 Moons you have to pay them to review your product so I suppose they feel obliged to waffle on for pages.
Most mags say they never review poor product, just send it back. Which sort of make sense but this is supposed to be subjective reviewing so how come you never see a review that says they didn't like it? Not that it was poor, just not to their taste? I mean I'm not keen on EAR but it isn't a bad product it's just I don't like that presentation, all creamy and soft.
I wouldn't say there have never been any backhanders for reviewers but I don't think it happens often. Usually it's enough that the reviewer knows the manufacturer, or the importer or whatever. Gets a tour, gets taken for lunch, gets friendly with the people behind the product. That makes it much harder for him to say anything negative when he goes back to write the review, simple human nature. The mags support the manufacturer and the manufacturer supports the mags. Print or on-line, makes no difference.
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Jul 30, 2018 7:02:51 GMT
UK mag circulation is a fraction of what it was and even twenty years ago, circulation was in decline. Can't give precise figures, but HFN was well under 20k and HFW not much more than half that not long ago.
Loads of tales of gear being 'reviewed' without taking it out of the boxes, other hand tuned or 'selected' items being personally delivered to the measurement chap and so on. This goes back the the 70's too (I suspect and hope things were above this in 60's UK magazines)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 7:07:33 GMT
But FFS Dave look at the price of mags nowadays. £5 or £6 bloody hell.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 7:09:11 GMT
the dealer i bought my sme off told many reviewers were given 10k direct into their accounts to give a 5 star award
|
|
|
Post by nonuffin on Jul 30, 2018 8:00:33 GMT
Thanks guys for your valuable insights.
Up until recently I was a reviewer and certainly never once offered any back handers at all, in fact I was paid SFA which is why I packed it in. I now have my own online magazine but taking a break before seriously starting again.
As for writing negative reviews, I simply couldn't see the worth in wasting my time writing such a review when in reality there is so much good kit out there waiting in a queue. I did criticise some big name gear and surprise, surprise they never asked me to do another one. I said the speaker binding posts on the Cyrus One were hopelessly inadequate and I was shocked by the reaction it caused on Facebook. I refused to review some Wharfedale speakers and boy did get some heavy flak over that, but I would rather do that than steer prospective buyers towards auditioning such products.
On the flip side of that, if any product fell short of my standards I discussed it with the manufacturers, many of whom actually took notice of my findings and took remedial steps.
What truly pissed me off persoanlly was the british obsession with home grown products such as KEF, B&W, Musical Fidelity, etc., but there is a treasure trove of absolutely superb products originating from europe with unfamiliar names that simply pisses all over the home grown gear easily. Poland in particular has a thriving hi-fi industry and produces great gear at sensible prices. A case in point is my Quadral speakers which I doubt any UK speaker can get even close to and I am not exaggerating at all. What a huge shame that people don't take any heed when someone bothers to point them in the right direction.
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,434
|
Post by Bigman80 on Jul 30, 2018 8:18:45 GMT
Feel free to promote your online magazine here when you are ready to get going again.......Only if you want to though. Little known European kit fascinates me and would enlighten many others, I’m sure.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 8:22:30 GMT
maybe it was different 20 years ago..all we had then was mags.
hifi review was my favourite..i used to buy them all every month..had about 500 mags up untill 2000..used to read them from cover to cover
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,434
|
Post by Bigman80 on Jul 30, 2018 8:23:31 GMT
But FFS Dave look at the price of mags nowadays. £5 or £6 bloody hell. Yes, too expensive. I also feel like lots of the stuff in there is either “tat” or silly-priced high end gear that can’t hold a candle to vintage stuff you can pick up for high hundreds today. Where’s the quirky, offbeat, small manufacturer stuff? FFS where’s Kralk Audio? Just one example, but there are loads of interesting finds out there if you only look. Trouble is they don’t appear to. They just sit and wait for big spenders to come to them. I genuinely believe this hobby is far from dying, The mags are suffering because they are too expensive and lack interesting content.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 8:26:09 GMT
the net has killed magazines full stop imho years ago shops had walls of magazines..nowadays almost nothing..everything is on the net now. you want to find out about anything nowadays u google..made life so easy for all of us..best deals and best products. i prefer to listen to normal folks tales than reviews..
|
|
|
Post by nonuffin on Jul 30, 2018 9:11:24 GMT
The tradiotional paper mags look down their noses at the new breed of online mags, but their days are numbered.
I have always tried to make my reviews entertaining as well as hopefully informative and never ever talk down to anyone. Nothing used to annoy me more when reviewers said that the Excerpt of Bloggin's Concerto in E Minor from the 1947 concert in Vienna on the rare as F#ck record label sounded so sweet and mellow on their zillion dollar system I couldn't relate to that as I am sure countless others couldn't, so vowed never to do that.
My reference recording was and still is Fink's "Wheels Beneath My Feet" live album which is readily available and good enough musically for people to seek out. I have a whole series of benchmarks which any component under evaluation must pass and they are easily identified by people who aren't musically inclined too.
What hi-fi is a very apt title, especially when I found out their review methodolgy. They rarely if ever run anything in and their review of Tannoy 7.4s was a world away from my review because the speakers were not run in.
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,434
|
Post by Bigman80 on Jul 30, 2018 9:30:30 GMT
Reviewing styles can vary but some things irritate me personally.
1. Reviews written in the present tense. David Price seems to have started this and it’s spread. To me it was done for effect and it grates badly. It also suggests to me that he is sharing his entire (brief) review experience. If all he’s done is listened to 3 or 4 recordings, it doesn’t suggest any length of time has been spent with the gear. 2. Music based reviews where the description of the tracks, album, artist, producer, label and issue take up a paragraph each time. I’m simply not interested. To me it’s a lazy way to fill space. I want to know what sonic traits the item being reviewed has. I’m expecting the reviewer to do the hard work and listen to lots of recordings before outlining any tendencies in the review. A small example or two using a recording is fine, but I don’t accept the premise that a review should be all about the music. At best, it’s only one way, not THE way. 3. Comparative reviews that don’t go beyond the comparison. I’m not a fan of AB comparison because it tends to accentuate differences and has often led me to choose something I haven’t enjoyed in. It’s own terms. All a comparative review will tell you I shown something compared to something else. Fine if you own the other component and are considering switching, but how likely is that?
All of these are my opinion and nothing else. I’m not prescribing to anyone, just saying what turns me off and why. As with hifi, it’s all subjective AFAIC.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 10:15:50 GMT
What annoys me most is the habit some reviewers have of repeating the manufacturer's blurb verbatim, often taking up half the review space in the process. It's basically lazy journalism.
|
|
|
Post by macca on Jul 30, 2018 11:32:08 GMT
What annoys me most is the habit some reviewers have of repeating the manufacturer's blurb verbatim, often taking up half the review space in the process. It's basically lazy journalism. I don't really class it as journalism. Journalism is fact finding and investigation. Hi-fi reviewing - at least these days - is just waffling for 2000 words.
I agree with Andrew I don't want to read a load of waffle about some artists I've never heard of. Just tell me what the sonic traits are after you've listened to a load of music and tried the kit with a number of different partnering items to get a good feel for it.
And if there's any stand-out flaws let me know.
They don't do this because it's actually a fair bit of work and they can't be arsed for £300. Some of them probably don't even have a stable of kit to hand they can swap in and out in any case because they aren't even proper enthusiasts.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 11:57:59 GMT
I almost put journalism in inverted commas, but I thought it would look a bit poncey. A schoolfriend of mine went on to work for various newspapers, and used to get annoyed if he was called a journalist. 'I'm not a journalist, I'm a reporter', he used to say. Another friend worked in design, and got equally cross if anyone called him a 'graphic artist', which apparently was a lower-ranking profession to what he was, which was a 'graphic designer'.
The other problem with the mags today is that they very rarely publish bad reviews; at most they'll do a bit of damning with faint praise, leaving the reader to read between the lines and guess that the equipment being reviewed isn't much cop. At least in the old-style comparative reviews in HiFi Choice you'd get a consensus view of what was good, bad, or indifferernt.
|
|
|
Post by macca on Jul 30, 2018 12:17:54 GMT
I agree, The Hi-fi Choice group tests were always illuminating, especially the blind listening sessions. No wonder they stopped doing them.
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,434
|
Post by Bigman80 on Jul 30, 2018 13:33:52 GMT
What annoys me most is the habit some reviewers have of repeating the manufacturer's blurb verbatim, often taking up half the review space in the process. It's basically lazy journalism. Damn good point. Half the review in many cases.
|
|
|
Post by nonuffin on Jul 30, 2018 13:49:14 GMT
How do we define a "bad review"?
The one important thing that I have learned as a reviewer is that what I would class as bad sounding would probably thrill to bits someone else with different listening tastes and what may please or displease me personally, could and most likely is, at complete variance with other people's listening preferences. My "detailed" is someone else's "too bright" and my take on "woolly bass" may be most people's idea of "perfect bass". If you go to any hi-fi show and spend some time listening to the private comments what people say about what they have just heard. It is a real eye opener.
There are no absolutes whatsoever in the world of hi-fi and those of you that are too quick to criticise should give it a go yourselves and discover just how difficult a job it is, especially translating what you are hearing and pairing it up with an inadequate language palette so you do far too much repetition and wear thin the usual cliches.
|
|
|
Post by macca on Jul 30, 2018 15:11:43 GMT
I agree there are no absolutes and what You think sounds awful I might think sounds good.
Disagree that it is at all difficult to write a review of hi-fi equipment.
it's a bit harder if you want it to be entertaining, and almost impossible if you want it to be genuinely useful.
I don't know what your reviews were like, I'm just going by the vast bulk of reviews that indicate to me that it's an easy way to pick up some pin money.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 15:18:26 GMT
Yes but it's not a real job is it...!!! (Hifi Reviewer)
I mean I wanted to be a Wizard when I left school, but the folk at the job centre just laughed.😂
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 15:49:29 GMT
Yes but it's not a real job is it...!!! (Hifi Reviewer) I mean I wanted to be a Wizard when I left school, but the folk at the job centre just laughed.😂 [Old Bob Monkhouse joke]: 'People laughed when I said I was going to be a comedian. Let me tell you something; they're not laughing now!'
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 15:57:40 GMT
How do we define a "bad review"? The one important thing that I have learned as a reviewer is that what I would class as bad sounding would probably thrill to bits someone else with different listening tastes and what may please or displease me personally, could and most likely is, at complete variance with other people's listening preferences. My "detailed" is someone else's "too bright" and my take on "woolly bass" may be most people's idea of "perfect bass". If you go to any hi-fi show and spend some time listening to the private comments what people say about what they have just heard. It is a real eye opener. There are no absolutes whatsoever in the world of hi-fi and those of you that are too quick to criticise should give it a go yourselves and discover just how difficult a job it is, especially translating what you are hearing and pairing it up with an inadequate language palette so you do far too much repetition and wear thin the usual cliches. That was the advantage of the old HiFi Choice approach; you had several opinions rather than just one, so it was possible to get some idea of what a consensus might be about a particular piece of equipment. HiFi+ tried it once in a comparative review of cables; unfortunately one of the panel preferred the cheapest cable, which was not a good result, so they never repeated the experiment. I reckon I could knock up a hifi review in half an hour or so, given the manufacturer's press release. It's not like anyone could 'challenge' my findings, as they would just be my own subjective opinion. As long as I added sufficient caveats about 'of course, in a different room or system, it might work better/worse/not at all', there'd be no problem. Ian Rankin famously reviewed some Exposure amps without even taking them out of the box!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2018 16:16:26 GMT
Yes but it's not a real job is it...!!! (Hifi Reviewer) I mean I wanted to be a Wizard when I left school, but the folk at the job centre just laughed.😂 [Old Bob Monkhouse joke]: 'People laughed when I said I was going to be a comedian. Let me tell you something; they're not laughing now!'
|
|