Mini Vaders - Troels Gravesen NEXTEL 2F

Well, it seems things have taken a deathstar size step forward here with the introduction of the Mini Vaders. I am currently listening to Piano Man by Billy Joel and its astonishing. My head has currently fallen off, so once sanity is restored i will consider writing something with balance.

For now...im off for more music!

Visit if you dare. Your wallet will not survive!!

Fingers crossed that the love affair continues in the right vein and we do not hear or see any divorce proceedings any time soon

Thanks Steve.

I am full of enthusiasm for the hobby again.

Hearing this is just a delight

I don’t think it’s going to be a surprise to anyone here at this point that even though the Ekta are phenomenal speakers, I was still having issues in my room.

In hindsight, it’s highly probable that the sheer quality of those speakers were the only reason I managed to get the sound out of them that I did, however as some who visited here know, it wasn’t without issue. The main culprit being a completely untamed 40hz room mode that caused all sorts of issues. Issues I hadn't been able to do anything with.

Most music has a fair bit of activity at 40hz, and yeah…my room did not cope with it. The real issue is that no matter what passive speaker I bought, that 40hz room mode was excited by them all, including small Monitor Audio bookshelves that I was convinced would not have enough power to trouble it.

The only real solution that i could see, was a semi active speaker design, one like Jason’s CNO-4’s (Vaders)

Those who have seen the Vaders, and my room, would know that they wouldn’t even fit in here, but I LOVED their performance. That's the sound I wanted. That's when Jason and I discussed the possibility of Troels Gravensen’s Nextel 2F design. You can read about Troels' thoughts on them on his website, but all I needed to read was “This speaker can also be regarded as a downscaled version of my CNO-4”

After much consideration on how to fund them, and whether I was going to risk my one of a kind Ekta, the decision was made. Sell everything, buy Mini Vaders.

So I did. Ekta, 686, Aqvox and Reimyo…all out the door. Then the waiting began.

Thankfully Jason moved at speed on this build. They were literally built too quickly for my planning and I ran the risk of not having the Purifi build done before they got here. With a bit of good fortune I managed to get everything in place and ready for today…NEW SPEAKER DAY!!

Part of my plans were to buy proper bass traps. The Rockwool had proved to be revelatory, but it was now starting to crumble under its own weight. I decided on some from a UK company and ordered three. One for behind the left speaker and two for the right alcove. Secondly I needed some mains cables for the Hypex amps in the speakers. I bought some Supra 2.5mm2 mains cables. Gauge is more important than the material IME and 2.5mm2 is my preference for amplification. I also no longer buy mains cables with metal braid/shield, so the carbon wrap in the Supra is a perfect compromise.

When the speakers arrived the first job was to weigh them. They clocked in at 40kgs each!

Slippery buggers too with very little to hold on too and lots of expensive finger holes to potentially make if mishandled. We got them in and set them up roughly. Got them on the stands and left Jason to get to work with his Mic and software.

Pretty quickly it became apparent to Jason that we had a problem. The 40hz peak was not responding to his tuning efforts, or at least not nearly as much as required. We had a chat and decided we would try and bung the ports due to the fact Jason had identified that it was actually the mid driver that was aggravating the room mode.

I quickly dug out some hessian and made some temporary bungs and initially we had some success, but they were not consistent with each other, so I went on a mission to find something. Thankfully I found my old POANG cushions which had some acoustilux-like material inside. Jason cut it up, rolled it up and put it in….voila! 40hz now tweakable. Result.

A wave of relief did crash over me. All of that money to have the same issue didn’t sound appealing, but now we have a real shot at getting things how we wanted them to be.

I left Jason to it. Partly because I hate people watching me work and also due to the fact that two bodies in the room may affect the measurements. When I came back…we had a listen. Json had also managed to flatten out a rather large trough in the presence region. I was excited to get a listen.

Initially, the HF was a touch prominent at times and the sound did seem a little leaner than I wanted, however, the flattening of the LF end of the frequency was extremely noticeable. I played a variety of well known tracks (to me) and everything sounded alien. Gone were the excessive waves of LF energy of Yello’s Pacific AM, Gone were the warbling bass notes in Becks Country Down…but it wasn’t quite right. It sounded a little dry and a little soulless.

We had some lunch and listened a little more, and I think we both agreed to try a different resistor value to curtail some HF. In went a higher value resistor, but out it came seconds later…It was flatter, lost the sparkle it did have. In fact, it just sounded wrong. Then Jason added 1db of LF somewhere into the frequency plot and BANG..it was alive. And I mean really alive. The original tweeter value now sounded perfect. I was a bit puzzled as to why this would be, but it sounded more rounded out top to bottom, very much like the time Jason demod the Ekta to me and then turned his sub on. It’s like it somehow filled in the gaps…odd, but that's the only way I can describe it.

As we ploughed through music and rechecked the setup,straightened the speakers out for toe-in etc, the more we fiddled, the better it got.

Then another bombshell. During Metallica, Jason added another 1db to the LF. Again, it just didn’t sound right. It killed the resolution. It was clear to me at this point that if I didn't have Jason here, and I was trying to do this on my own, it would be a Sh#t show.

Jason’s knowledge and experience shone through, and his ability (and patience) to keep tweaking until it was right is worth every penny.

At this point, I think he had it nailed on. Frequency plot, positioning…everything was now spot on, and WOW…what a head wobbling experience was to follow.

In order to try and convey how transformative this speaker upgrade has been to the system and listening experience is impossible. You don’t know what you don’t know, and I am afraid that if you haven't heard how it was here vs how it is now, you will not be able to grasp the sheer magnitude of performance uplift.

Ordinarily, as is my style, I would try and draw comparisons from the old speakers vs the new, but on this occasion it feels unfair. The Ekta are stunningly good speakers and if you own a pair that works well in your room, you will be very happy. So I am not going to do that, instead, I will draw comparisons against a collective of every other speaker I have owned, because the same issues existed then, just in varying degrees of severity.

So, changing to semi-active speakers will just give me better bass, right?

WRONG!

There is no doubt that tuning the speakers to the room has had a major effect, but the truth is that it’s not just the LF that has benefitted. Both the HF and the Mids and recipients of huge amounts of clarity due to the lack of overhang, bloom, and resonance caused by room modes that can linger for a few seconds. All of this stuff causes smear in the soundscape. Without it, the clarity has skyrocketed. Transparency is through the roof, all of which i had hoped for as the SEAS drivers are a superior beast to those used in any of the speakers I have previously owned.

The increase in resolution is downright obscene. Listening to Eric Clapton's - Journeyman album was a full on smiley face affair. Songs I have heard over and over were now highly polished products of vastly experienced engineers mixing an album expertly. It always sounded a bit thin, a bit harsh. Not now. It was full bodied, solid and extremely fluid.

Starsailors - Way to Fall was the most liquid I have ever heard. This through a £220 Topping D70S…unbelievable.

System of a Down…holy cow!. The LF was pounding and heavy, but so finely controlled that it never escaped. It was ferocious, but extremely well produced. I haven’t experienced this album like this before. Iron grip, wow

Moving on to The Wall - Pink Floyd…I heard this track on vinyl at Angus’s when he had the ceramic drivers in his MA speakers. It was fast as lightning…this sounded faster, harder hitting and hugely spacious. It was next level. As Captain America once said “ I can do this all day” but I am not going to. You get the idea.

It’s all good and well having speakers with immense initial wow factor, but how they fare when you play the intimate stuff, the stuff that moves you, the stuff you don’t tend to play in front of other people ....that's when you get into the REAL heart of the issue. How these tracks play, how they communicate with you....that's where I find I make decisions on kit.

The speakers had been playing for about 9hrs solid, so i played some stuff i hold dear to my heart. Things like “Here Today” by Paul McCartney, A Day in the Life - The Beatles, Way Over Yonder - Carole King, and for the duration of every song..i was captivated and emotionally connected.

These speakers communicate to me like no others ever have here, and I think that's due to the removal of all the crap room/speaker interaction that got in the way with other speakers. From a critique angle, none of the songs I played today had ever sounded so good. Every possible parameter that you could gauge them on is a win for the Mini Vaders, which I guess is the best possible outcome you could hope for when buying blind.

There is stuff i haven't covered yet, like how the fact i now have full range capability in this room is completely bonkers, or how the LF is so frigging epic i might lose my mind, but I’ll post more as time passes as I want the initial head wobbling performance to bed in before i get too enthusiastic and lose all credibility lol.

In the meantime, if anyone is considering speakers, you would be well advised to come and have a listen. I am more than happy to welcome anyone here, just drop me a message.

Nice work Jason, it would seem you have even satisfied old 'golden ears' himself with your excellent work.

Pleased you're liking the new speakers Oli, and I'm sure they will improve over the next month. Another case of 'get the speakers right and everything will fall into place' system building.

Flip me - wow.
Having shared a lot of your upgrade journey I am surprised you are not floating a few inches off the floor.

Well done Jason, top man.

Thanks Mark.

The Vader's (in Jason's room and system) are the best sound ive ever been exposed to.

I can imagine that you must have one hell of a system now too, especially with that monster Humboldt!

Jason's craftsmanship is equally as impressive as the sound the speakers make. The angles on these Mini Vaders are mind boggling, so to be able to work out all of those angles, and then make them BY HAND (😳) and get them to look sooooo fluid is incredibly impressive. I'd have been impressed if they were CNCd, but wow...next level stuff.

I am looking forward to them settling down and me getting used to them. Even this early, it's no chore to listen.

Great times ahead.

Me too. I'd started to fatigue with the battle. I am reinvigorated today 🙂

It's my pleasure.

Yesterday was a pivotal moment in hifi for me and I'm really grateful for the work you've put in.

Attaining that kind of performance in this room was something I didnt think would ever be possible. Yes, I still don't have that epic soundstage that you guys with bigger rooms manage to get, but for me that's never been a huge issue as I'm not used to hearing it.

I am sure these speakers will spend years in my system, such is their quality.

What an absolute treat they are.

Thanks Gary. 🙂

I wasn't going to say anything for fear of conjuring up negative vibes but I did think it would be a battle to get them tuned to the room and sounds like it was - all credit to Jason's patience and expertise.

Yes 1dB and even 0.5dB can make a huge difference - just shows why worry about anything else when speaker/room is not sorted? Not everything is frequency response - but it is almost everything!

I know the pain of trying so many different things over the years and still not getting there - I nearly threw in the towel many times - and I don't have a difficult room. Really pleased this has worked out.

Well done Olster (and Jason of course), 

Speakers look great and clearly sound it too - lol.

Dont worry about soundstage, big room blah blah blah, work with what you have, which is exactly what you decided, hence the changes that shook the AA world  , in your pursuit towards extracting the best from room, coupled with a focus on the right kit for you, in that regard, and hats off to you. I've always loved your passion. 

My room, as Andy- Numpty knows, is not a big room, only 4mtrs x 3.5mtrs, hard bare walls, wooden floor, BUT, he'll attest that there is no obvious apparent negatives, the system does music, it boogies, non fatiguing, just sounds right and that's what matters at the end of the day, size of soundstage etc is a lesser factor, no such thing as perfect sound, we all know there's always a compromise of some kind with this system lark.  

What is important is the music, that rightness to the sound, instruments and textures, that sense of realism, the prat coupled with a natural dynamic aspect, that's when the music system experience brings that sensation and smiles and that's what matters. 

Glad you're doing 'your' journey, cause that's the way to do it. 

Enjoy mate, glad it's bringing thrills and has got you buzzing again.  
  

Just been reading through Troels page and find he only ever offers semi active designs but came across this comment on one of the Purifi designs .

"First of all, if we think measurements will tell us how a speaker sounds, we're wrong. The perception of sound is way too subjective to be reflected in any measurements we can perform. A loudspeaker system is meant to give us a satisfying idea of an acoustic event and for some people a pair of 5 USD ear-plugs are enough, others spend 200 kUSD on a truly full-range pair of speakers - and the latter may not be happier than the former."

Thank you for leaving hope in tact for as long as possible!