Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 28, 2018 20:24:20 GMT
Just remembered another selling mistake.
That was selling my Linn Keilidh's years ago in 2008. Sorry DSJR, but you may want to look away now.
These pair were a 1993 vintage in black ash, and had the older metal mesh tweeters. Fitted with KU-Stones of course!
Only ever used them in passive mode. But for some reason these particular Keilidh's sounded human and nearly just right. They just played music, didn't do any of that 'Hi-Fi' rip recordings apart thing. You can listen for long periods of time.
I recall my Dad buying another pair of Keilidh's in Cherry. Again, with metal mesh tweeters. These ones just didn't have the same magic. Instead they sounded more dry and was lacking in soul. Treble wasn't quite as liquid either.
My Dad has a small theory that my Keilidh's might have possibly been tweaked. Hence why they sounded very good.
S.
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,434
|
Post by Bigman80 on Aug 28, 2018 21:37:35 GMT
Just remembered another selling mistake. That was selling my Linn Keilidh's years ago in 2008. Sorry DSJR, but you may want to look away now. These pair were a 1993 vintage in black ash, and had the older metal mesh tweeters. Fitted with KU-Stones of course! Only ever used them in passive mode. But for some reason these particular Keilidh's sounded human and nearly just right. They just played music, didn't do any of that 'Hi-Fi' rip recordings apart thing. You can listen for long periods of time. I recall my Dad buying another pair of Keilidh's in Cherry. Again, with metal mesh tweeters. These ones just didn't have the same magic. Instead they sounded more dry and was lacking in soul. Treble wasn't quite as liquid either. My Dad has a small theory that my Keilidh's might have possibly been tweaked. Hence why they sounded very good. S. Really interesting you should have had two pairs. I heard one at a mates and thought they were pleasant and enjoyable. I then bought a pair amen theiughtntheynwere just downright poor. Still not as unpleasant as Kabers though. I wonder if there were internal changes that totally changed them? Linn has plenty of form in this respect.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2018 20:46:59 GMT
I'm just wondering what my next mistake might be. I've got an itch to treat myself to some more Hi-Fi, but not sure what to go for. Could be an amp or some speaker drive units for a project.
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Aug 29, 2018 20:57:18 GMT
Keildh's went through four main driver versions I think and both tweeter types. Mine were later ones in black ash veneer all over - front as well - and also with Ku-Stone bases which I felt were essential. The boxes had Ku-Stone blocks inside too and were very solid and well braced. The passive crossovers had decent tracks and components too I recall. I just found that in passive form, the odd load (3 - 4 ohm bass-mid and 15 ohms or similar at hf), could give the passive ones a sucked-out midrange, the clean bass overpowering in many rooms. i was able to compare passive single wire, passive bi-wire (different rather than better), active with two 140's (and four channels in the 5125 5-channel amp) and once with three Lk140's, which was the best I ever heard them, that's all...
Linn did a cheapo passive only version (made in China) called the Keosa and I thought these were ok as well. The Tukan was done in this cheapo single wire version and called the Kan III.
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,434
|
Post by Bigman80 on Aug 29, 2018 22:59:19 GMT
I guess amongst my “mistakes” I should include the things I couldn’t even be arsed to wire up once I’d bought them.
DNM series 3A. Always wanted one but it arrived at a time when I had too much gear. Michell Orbe. Just too lazy to fit the arm and cart despite having it for 2 months Helius Orion. I even made an arm board for this but by that time the mood had passed Jello SA750D. Lovely looking thing, just too much hassle to fit. Linn Troika. Came at a time when I was too busy. Alphaosn Sonata. Again, just no enthusiasm for setting up. Edison 12 valve amps. I had a pair of these and they just looked too ugly to bother with. Naim Supernait. Well I did give it about 2 mins but it went withiut really being heard or evaluated. Musical,Fidelity MA50s. Same time as the Edisons. Had about 60 seconds play. Just too much kit and no interest once I got round to them. Manticore Mantra. Just looked too poor to bother with Walker CJ55. Ditto The Oak turntable Ditto Systemdek (nextel jobbie) Ditto Roksan Tabriz. Cheap and nasty looking so I didn’t bother.
Probably loads more I’ve forgotten.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2018 7:04:09 GMT
Being naively fooled into the belief that MC cartridges are better than MM cartridges.
And spending a wee fortune on them.
😈
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Aug 30, 2018 8:28:48 GMT
You didn't have the likes of me to set them up at least half decently jammy!
|
|
|
Post by antonio on Aug 30, 2018 9:29:59 GMT
You didn't have the likes of me to set them up at least half decently jammy! He was too busy killing them ugly cartridge wires.
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,434
|
Post by Bigman80 on Aug 30, 2018 10:49:24 GMT
I’ve heard quite a few people say that they prefer MM. I guess it just goes to illustrate how we all do hear differently. I haven’t heard a single MM that (for me) could equal even the worst MC I’ve heard. The top end always sounds rolled off and the detail sounds dulled. Bass too is softer to me. The Goldrings were amongst the better MM examples though.
Jammy’s clearly heard MCs and preferred his MM, so he can’t be wrong. He’s stuck with his choice for a long time, too, which suggests what he hears ticks all his boxes.,That’s as much as any of us can ask for.
As good as vinyl is, I’m at a bit of a crossroads and need to decide whether I’m in or out. “In” will mean buying something special. “Out” will mean getting shot of bits, but I’d be doing that either way because I couldn’t put up with running vinyl as a second best. It’s too much hassle and too many boxes for that.
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Aug 30, 2018 11:02:13 GMT
You haven't heard the 2M better models then (the 2M Bronze was fan when I set one up a short while ago), no top or bottom lost there - very funky sound. The ancient Dual 601/ZLM sounds crisp and lively, but tuneful too and less sogggy than an XLM III can sound. I don't know the AT540 or 750 as yet, but they're rather OC9-like I gather.
Cheap MC's go one of two ways in my experience. they either take your fillings out with a wild top end (Ortofom MC Turbo series, Sumiko BPS and if badly matched, the old AT-F5 ), or they sound beefy and bland (Dynavector 10X models - five hundred quid my arse!!! - or the Denon DL110 which used to cost the same as the 10X IV!). A Raga RB arm will hold wild excesses in check and the straight jelco arm and distantly related old Linn Basik Plus arm, will liven up a gentler model I feel.
Thing is, the hideous money gemstone foo models may really be cachet products rather than genuinely advancing the state of the art technically. I have to say the difference a superbly finished diamond makes is definitely audible in terms of much reduced surface noise and end-of-side finesse. Many vinyl people don't hear distortions and ignore surface noise I found and as for rumbly old idler decks, they're often in total denial!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2018 11:56:12 GMT
You're getting as old and grumpy as me Dave. I agree about the 10x things, I'd sooner run an old M75ED.
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,434
|
Post by Bigman80 on Aug 30, 2018 12:01:24 GMT
You haven't heard the 2M better models then (the 2M Bronze was fan when I set one up a short while ago), no top or bottom lost there - very funky sound. The ancient Dual 601/ZLM sounds crisp and lively, but tuneful too and less sogggy than an XLM III can sound. I don't know the AT540 or 750 as yet, but they're rather OC9-like I gather. Cheap MC's go one of two ways in my experience. they either take your fillings out with a wild top end (Ortofom MC Turbo series, Sumiko BPS and if badly matched, the old AT-F5 ), or they sound beefy and bland (Dynavector 10X models - five hundred quid my arse!!! - or the Denon DL110 which used to cost the same as the 10X IV!). A Raga RB arm will hold wild excesses in check and the straight jelco arm and distantly related old Linn Basik Plus arm, will liven up a gentler model I feel. Thing is, the hideous money gemstone foo models may really be cachet products rather than genuinely advancing the state of the art technically. I have to say the difference a superbly finished diamond makes is definitely audible in terms of much reduced surface noise and end-of-side finesse. Many vinyl people don't hear distortions and ignore surface noise I found and as for rumbly old idler decks, they're often in total denial! I have heard the 2m black very recently. That was more than enough for me: Utter piece of shite imo and sonically nowhere near as good as Jammys Goldring to my ears. It’s just an OM30 in disguise and I’ve said before how much I hate those things. But then I tend to dislike Ortofon carts in general. MC30 was just about tolerable, but still not to my taste. Conversely I loved the AT-F5. Not as good as OC7 and 9, but still a goodie. I upgraded from a Goldring 1040 and never looked back. I guess it comes down to taste again. You’re right about those Dynavectors. All massively overpriced now to the point of being a piss take. But then the 2M Black is probably equally silly money for what it is. Audio Technica and Denon are just about the only ones who haven’t milked prices and I’m glad to say they are my faves anyway I always feel that cartridges seem to be more subjective than anything else. You get the most vehement disagreements where one person’s gem is another persons “don’t touch with a bargepole”. I’ve never understood why but it seems to have been like this forever. Probably one of the most controversial ones are the “cartridge man” Music Makers. Never heard one myself.
|
|
|
Post by macca on Aug 30, 2018 12:40:18 GMT
The 2M Black is the old 540 Mk2 in disguise. Competent, maybe a bit sterile. I replaced mine with a Nag MP50 which I preferred but they are silly money now.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2018 12:46:05 GMT
Yup tried the orto black, the Goldie 1042 pissed all over it in any dept you care to mention....imho. Now this could be a synergy thing......fuk knows.
Nags are okay.
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,434
|
Post by Bigman80 on Aug 30, 2018 16:41:57 GMT
The 1042 can sound tinselly and 'sterile' if you get it wrong - in my experience. If you like it, I'm not surprised the 2M Black doesn't suit. See, I loved the 540mk2 and use a raw sounding 520mk2 in one of my oldest Duals, where it's very much at home... We really are chalk and cheese in our tastes I thought the 540 was sub-AT91 level. I got one one a deck I bought and gave it away. You could’ve had it if I’d known you back then. I honestly thought it was a £10 throwaway jobbie until I looked it up just now. I haven’t kept up with Ortofon MMs so I know why nothing about it and just judged it on perceived value and sound. It looked, felt and sounded like a tenners worth.
|
|
|
Post by macca on Aug 30, 2018 16:50:21 GMT
needle was on its way out, or there was some horrible mis-match with the phono stage. Only explanation. But I'll grant you the difference between the 540 and the AT91 is not enormous, they are very similar in character. I went from Nag MP30 to the 540 II and it was just different, not better. Than had my one and only MC, an Eroica, that was better than the 540 but lacked the balls of the MP30. Then got the MP50. Needed a new stylus, £220! So I coughed up but then decided I wasn't chucking any more money at vinyl. It's a never-ending black hole.
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,434
|
Post by Bigman80 on Aug 31, 2018 19:37:08 GMT
I turned down a pair of Monitor Audio studio 20se for just over £200. I liked them and wish I’d owned a pair. Still fancy a pair of Studio 10s if I can grab them cheap.
|
|
|
Post by macca on Aug 31, 2018 21:59:59 GMT
That's cheap for the 20SE even though they are old hat now. They look like a capable speaker. Trouble with MA of that era is that they are too upfront, all leading edges and no 'richness'. Had a demo once with a Hardon Karman pre power and an Arcam Pre-power into some MA silver sig, big floorstanders. With the HK (which is good kit) it was just way too much, not quite harsh but getting there. Swapped to the Arcam and it was spot on.
Always wanted to try the MA7 for no reason than a read a review of them in HFR whilst sitting in the DHSS waiting to claim HB, and thinking if ever I had £200 quid I'd get some. That was about 1990.
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,434
|
Post by Bigman80 on Sept 1, 2018 6:52:46 GMT
That's cheap for the 20SE even though they are old hat now. They look like a capable speaker. Trouble with MA of that era is that they are too upfront, all leading edges and no 'richness'. Had a demo once with a Hardon Karman pre power and an Arcam Pre-power into some MA silver sig, big floorstanders. With the HK (which is good kit) it was just way too much, not quite harsh but getting there. Swapped to the Arcam and it was spot on. Always wanted to try the MA7 for no reason than a read a review of them in HFR whilst sitting in the DHSS waiting to claim HB, and thinking if ever I had £200 quid I'd get some. That was about 1990. I only heard them at a show, but I did listen for about half an hour (says a lot). I always thought of that era MA as a bit too soft and needing a bit more leading edge. But then I was all leading edge back then. What struck me about them was the clarity and richness. Of course they were easy on the eye too.
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Sept 1, 2018 7:53:51 GMT
Watch metal cone speakers, as I believe all of them zing in higher frequencies. By all accounts, a steep crossover doesn't fix it as this zing is excited acoustically as well.
When I heard the Studio 20 models, all I could hear was a 'ccchhh' kind of sound which smeared lower top sounds. Not something I could deal with for more than a few minutes I'm afraid.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2018 8:01:54 GMT
Yes, I bought a batch of those metal coned MA drivers to experiment with and found they have a 'quack' colouration through the upper mid. Too much so for me to want to use them, so I moved them on.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2018 18:28:18 GMT
I tried doping some aluminum continuous cone drivers. Failed miserably but was able to remove the dope after soaking in white spirits
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 23:14:18 GMT
I tried doping some aluminum continuous cone drivers. Failed miserably but was able to remove the dope after soaking in white spirits You should have used cellulose thinners.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 5:28:39 GMT
I tried doping some aluminum continuous cone drivers. Failed miserably but was able to remove the dope after soaking in white spirits You should have used cellulose thinners. Ok, cheers. I try that if there ever is a next time.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 17:13:56 GMT
I aspired to a SMEv but found that in my system it was a bit sterile and gray sounding and have wondered ever since why so many people seem to like them.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 17:37:59 GMT
The V is a good arm. But is not for everyone.
S.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 17:45:34 GMT
crap arm and a total rip off
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Sept 5, 2018 18:11:07 GMT
It's too expensive, but I'd never ever call it crap...
|
|
|
Post by macca on Sept 5, 2018 21:13:24 GMT
At shows SME used to have a challenge where if you could break one in half you got one free (not the one you broke obvs). No-one ever managed it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 22:01:38 GMT
At shows SME used to have a challenge where if you could break one in half you got one free (not the one you broke obvs). No-one ever managed it. I'm sure I'd manage it with a vice and club hammer.
|
|