Here goes nothing... the J blog

Well done Jason.
Really looking forward to reading your progress.
Also very interested on your reflections on the effect of Townshend isolation bars. The ones I had couldn’t support the weight of my Ektas so had to go.
Good luck with it all.

It was my Daughter's bed time, so was all I could write then 😂. 'Daddy bed, Daddy bedtime!'

😂

I haven’t tried the 851s without the bars but the bass sounds mighty fine with them. Good point about adjustability. I will check my speakers are still level as they have been on them a couple of weeks now so there may have been some ‘settling in’.

I feel like I've been run over by the renovation juggernaut! It's been an epic, emotional, exciting, tiring and sometimes stressful summer.

The main contractor has nearly finished - only really exterior rendering remains. We have spent 12 weeks camping in the garden and have now (thankfully) moved into 2/3 of the house. The summer was cold outdoor showers and a composting toilet! We now have a hot shower, flushing toilet and even heating! Total luxury now. The utility room is a temporary kitchen and my next BIG job is the kitchen/diner.

I have managed to get some priorities right, very right... The Music room is nearly ready and the Vaders will be coming out very soon - I CAN NOT WAIT! The music room has paint, carpet and now lots of shelves all ready for the hifi and vinyl.

Although there is a carpet, shelves and furniture I still plan to add various (stealth) room treatments. I plan to get the hifi up and running and then assess the effect of each treatment and room change. The first job will be to set up the Vaders and listen to some tunes. After a few tunes I shall set up the mic and get the Vader's 12" bass drivers tuned into the room. I am expecting the room to facilitate deep bass, but also have some issues that will need addressing via some light tuning below 100HZ.

I shall report back soon and document each step of the setup, room treatments and tweaks..

Here are the shelves and window seat. The Vaders will flank the window and the stereo and vinyl will be on the right. The shelves behind the speakers will be used to add absorption and diffusion.



More to follow soon folks.

Cor, that's a big telly, are you watching Emmerdale? 🤣

It's not a man-cave.....

It's a gentleman's lair.

Awesome

It's not been the best summer to have to camp out for 12 weeks either, especially with a nipper, so it looks like it's well earned!

Big day yesterday! The stereo was removed from storage and brought back to life. It was very cold to start (moisture condensing on it!), so I didn't make any assessments of SQ. After 5 months without tunes it sounded awesome even though cold!



The plan is to let everything settle down and then get used to the sound in the new room. The room is larger, so it already seems to sound more 'spatious'.

I have done some initial measurements and basic tuning, so will post about this soon. I'll add some initial impressions on SQ too.

Once I become accustomed to the sound I shall begin adding some stealth room treatments and assesing the difference...

Agree - I bet you are buzzing Jason 

The carpeted floor will make a big difference too.

Oh boy do I have a lot to report! Setting up the new music room has been a rollercoaster and I am learning a lot about the room and speaker positioning. I have been busy tuning my Vaders - it has taken a while, but is going very well. I have been busy with bass traps, isolation, tweeter attenuation, toe in and speaker tilt (forwards and backwards). Some things have gone to plan and there have been some big surprises.

The first job was a reasonably speedy setup and some initial measurements at my intended listening position. I didn't know the optimum position for the speakers or my seat, but needed a datum from which to work from and optimise. This is the speakers frequency response with the default setting (effectively no intervention) - RED line (psychoacoustic smoothing in REW) . I was very pleased to see that the room/speakers were actually very good with no active tuning. OK, it's not perfect, but it's better than any other room I've measured - a great start.



In general, the bass energy from 20-200Hz was a little low, amd there was a noticeable lift at 75Hz. The reponse through the Midrange and HF was looking pretty good. There is a natural roll off of about 10db from 200Hz to 20kHz - this is about right for a response at the listening position. The reponse would be much flatter at 1m from the speakers.

I did a quick tune (blue line) and managed to get the general bass response lifted and reduced the 75Hz hump. This is still a work progress as I want to address the slight loss of bass energy through the upper bass (80-200Hz). This should be easy to address, but this tuning can take a little time. It is an iterative process and the tuning changes do not always produce logical and predictable results. Acoustics are fickle and sometimes frustrating. Patience and tenacity will pay off...

More soon folks. Lots to report on bass traps, the 75Hz hump and very surprising discovery... Stay tuned.

I shall do my best Andy. Very busy trying to tile the kitchen and get the kitchen fitted. Also finding time to get the hifi setup. And... Be a good Dad and husband! (last but not least).

Found out some extremely surprising stuff during tuning and measuring. The system/room is already performing much better than in the last room too. I've had some challenges (more to come), but in general progress/tuning has gone extremely well. It's taking time as I have to go step by step and measure changes and assess them by listening too.

Love to demo to you again when it's done.

IT'S ALL IN THE TILT AND TRAPS

There has been further progress with the setup in the new room recently. I decided to have a little play with the tilt on the speakers. Troels Gravesen advises one to listen with ear height at the mid point between the tweeter and 6" midrange. This has always been difficult as I have a reasonably low listening chair. I have previously ignored the issue, however, I am leaving no stone unturned with this setup... I was curious so did some experimentation.

The room has a solid (75mm thick) screed floor, with an underlay and carpet on top. The Vaders have just sat and wobbled on the carpet for the first week, which is not ideal. The outriggers have 6mm threads for spikes, so I thought I'd give spiking a go. I will eventually investigate (Townshend style) isolation when funds allow. For now spikes are free!

Spikes gave me the opportunity to adjust the tilt forwards or backwards on the Vaders. I tried a 1 degree tilt back, 1 degree tilt forward and neutral (no tilt).  Please note that the Vaders have a 5 degree tilt back in the neutral position anyway, so fwd tilt became a 4 degree baffle angle and backwards tilt a 6 degree baffle angle.   I set the calibrated mic in the listening position and measured all three setups... I was very surprised by the results! What a difference 1 degree makes - I know speaker setup is important, but this really proves it.  (the tilt was measured with a laser inclinometer.)



Neutral is green, 1 degree tilt backwards is Blue, 1 degree tilt forwards is Orange.  What is most notable (and surprising) is the change in output in the "presence" region.   The difference in the 3.5kHz to 7Hz region is quite large.  A fwd tilt adds about a 6db at 6kHz verses the backwards tilt.  I had not expected the difference to be so profound.  This is still a work in progress as I'd like to investigate toe in more too.  I have now spent two sessions listening with the fwd tilt - this essentially means the speakers should be aimed perfectly for optimum mid/tweeter alignment and integration.   I am really enjoying the sound with the fwd tilt!  There is definitely more presence and more immediacy to the sound - it never seems to stray into harsh or fatiguing either.  I listened a little with the backwards tilt, however, the sound was definitely subdued and lacked detail - the balance was a little too warm for me.

I need to experiment further too and investigate what is going on in the 10-20kHz region - this is more difficult to understand.

The keen eyed will also note that I have been tuning the bass region further.  I am now pretty happy with the measured response in the 24-200Hz region.  This is now about +/-2db with psychoacoustic smoothing.  I am really happy this and feel there is not lots more work to do here.  I'd like to tweak the curve a little and increase the output from 20-24Hz, but this should be relatively straightforward. 

This latest measured response (above) is with some pretty serious bass traps in the corners.  This is still a work in progress too (everything is a work in progress!), so I shall do some measurements (with and without traps) soon.  The Rockwool can be seen behind the speakers and under the window seat in the picture below.    I currently have 200mm thickness (with gaps) in the lower two alcoves and 100mm in the 3rd alcove up.  There is 100mm under the window seat too.  Where it is 200mm I have gone 50mm airgap, 100mm Rockwool, 50mm air gap, 100mm Rockwool. 



Current initial listening impressions are WOW, WOW, WOW - why have I never done this before?!?!  Mainly because I've not had the opportunity to create a dedicated listening room - a very fortunate position to be in.  The change in bass response with the traps is incredible.  It was pretty good before, but it is now so clean, controlled, deep and impactful - notes start and stop with immediacy, but it doesn't sound too dry.  There is definitely less overhang and deep bass notes are more controlled and have a tangible weight, heft and body.  It is additive and I love it.  I shall be buying another pack of Rockwool and will experiment with adding a little more.  I am mindful that I shouldn't overdo it.  I'd like to add more in the upper alcoves (bays 4 and 5 from the floor).  The reverb time for the room is still a little high, so I'll like to reduce echo a little bit more.  Probably 50mm in the upper alcoves will suffice.  I will be adding acoustic slat wall (for 1st reflections) too - more to come on this!  

The Rockwool doesn't look great atm - I plan to wrap it in dark blue fabric, so it blends into the background.  Some books and stuff will then obscure it more.

I am loving the process and it hasn't always been an easy ride!  I shall add more posts and explain some of the challenges later.  The alcoves and massive window reveal/seat have presented their own problems!  The window reveal, in particular, created a massive resonance at 75Hz.  The bass traps and some active tuning (via the Hypex) have mostly solved this now.  The window seat is a lovely feature and great to sit on, but initially caused acoustic havoc!  Lesson learnt!

I'll post again soon and go into more detail on the bass traps and some measurements.  I'll also fit the slat wall and perform measurements before and after.