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Post by gninnam on Oct 25, 2023 19:56:00 GMT
What a great review into what you did and the results you have seen so far. Sounds like you are not to far from where you want to end up so keep on truckin'
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Post by Arke on Oct 26, 2023 9:44:48 GMT
What a great review into what you did and the results you have seen so far. Sounds like you are not to far from where you want to end up so keep on truckin' Thanks Andy. I think the results are good so far 😂 - I do find music tends to sound amazing after 5 months off anyway! That being said, the optimisation (tuning, bass traps, apsorption, diffusion, speaker positioning) all seem to be contributing to positive improvements.
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Post by Arke on Nov 6, 2023 20:59:12 GMT
Almost the final piece in the puzzle... Yesterday I fitted the slat wall at the first reflection area of the L speaker. In an ideal world I'd have a perfectly symmetrical arrangement with the same layout on left and right. However, domestic environments are rarely ideal. The shelves, vinyl and hifi on the right is doing a good job of breaking up the 1st reflections of the R speaker. The left is more problematic - without the slat wall there was a slight shift of the centre image to the left and information from the left channel seemed a little more 'smeared' and less focussed and 'carved' into space. Ideally, more shelves would've worked well, but we simply didn't want to narrow the room further and it may have felt a little cluttered. Instead, I opted for a walnut veneered slat wall. It compromises 10mm acoustic felt and 11mm deep slats on top. This should add some diffusion and absorption. It is only thin, but should help a little around the mid range and high frequency. I took measurements of the RT60 decay time (at listening position) before and after. This is DT60 decay before: Decay time is generally 400-600ms from 80Hz to 10kHz. It is mostly above 500ms from 200Hz to 2Khz. Ideally, I'd like it to be below 500ms throughout. This is a reasonable decay time for a reasonably spatious room. Too high a decay time and too much echo. Too low a decay time and it can sound sterile and over damped. This is the decay time with the slat wall: I was pleased to see that there is a measureable difference! In general, a 10-20% reduction in decay time. Pretty much around or below 500ms from 80Hz to 10khz. So, did it sound different? This is obviously highly subjective, but I am pretty sure there is a noticeable difference. There is more focus and instruments just sound more tonaly 'right'. The soundstage is slightly more organised and instruments have the impression that they are more located. TBF, it was pretty good before, but things have just got that little bit better. Strangely, music sounds about one notch (a couple of db) quieter... I wasn't expecting this, but assume it is because I am getting less reflected sound. All in all very positive and worth doing. I am excited too... the room is ready and the house is virtually in a state to welcome guests. Two people are coming to have a listen in a few weeks - can't wait! It'll be great to catch up with folk, drink tea/coffee, eat cake and enjoy some tunes. We may even listen to a few different amps too! Edit: The Rockwool looks a little conspicuous atm, this will be covered in dark blue fabric soon. I'm also keen to measure with and without the bass traps.
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Post by optical on Nov 6, 2023 21:28:04 GMT
Jason, the room is just incredible looking and the commitment to achieving your goals is super commendable.
Very interesting delving into the real engineering behind the room acoustics there, although I know this is still tip of iceberg stuff for some!
Brilliant updates.
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Post by brucew268 on Nov 6, 2023 21:37:46 GMT
Beauty! Really coming on. I certainly found that much experimentation was required with acoustic treatment. I often did not get expected results and just had to try various things until I found something that actually made a positive difference without a downside. But you've got the tools and mentality to get you there better than most of us.
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Post by gninnam on Nov 6, 2023 21:54:01 GMT
Bravo Jason - sounds (no pun...) that you are now in a good place and pretty close to the end goal
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Post by Arke on Nov 7, 2023 7:40:22 GMT
Jason, the room is just incredible looking and the commitment to achieving your goals is super commendable. Very interesting delving into the real engineering behind the room acoustics there, although I know this is still tip of iceberg stuff for some! Brilliant updates. Thanks Chris. If I'm honest, this room hasn't required much skill to get right. Fortunately, it tested pretty well from the outset, so the treatments and tweaking are the icing on the cake. Although changes have been small, they have been extremely valuable to increase my understanding of how certain treatments (bass traps, absorption, diffusion etc.) and adjustments (speaker toe in, tilt etc.) effect the measured and perceived performance. The main aim has been to achieve a good sounding room whilst creating an attractive domestic environment. The room is dual purpose, so my wife and I were aiming for something acceptable as a living room and a music room.
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Post by Arke on Nov 7, 2023 10:13:40 GMT
Bravo Jason - sounds (no pun...) that you are now in a good place and pretty close to the end goal Thanks Andy. Yes, it is certainly getting there, but do we ever really reach the 'end goal'? Either way, I'm loving the process and loving listening atm. Truth me known, I'd be a little disappointed if I ever reached the absolute end - I am thoroughly enjoying the journey. It'll be interesting to see what others thing of the SQ in the new room verses the previous room. I think it's better, but most things sound good after 5 months off!
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Post by Arke on Nov 23, 2023 12:49:32 GMT
Well, that is an interesting twist... The top enclosure of my Vaders is now driven by a class D Purifi amp, I had not expected that! It is certainly bringing a smile to my face and providing a decent upgrade. It will remain in my system until a better (and affordable) option presents itself. Full report of the listening experience and the bake off here: audioaddictsforum.com/post/91562/thread
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Post by bencat on Nov 23, 2023 17:45:59 GMT
Great musings Jason from both you and Oli , Steve speak up at the back and add a bit more of what thought . Can I ask Jason do you only have a vinyl source ? Would love to listen to your system and see the progress on your build but I can not listen to vinyl at all so will have to pass fingers all there is .
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 23, 2023 18:14:12 GMT
Great musings Jason from both you and Oli , Steve speak up at the back and add a bit more of what thought . Can I ask Jason do you only have a vinyl source ? Would love to listen to your system and see the progress on your build but I can not listen to vinyl at all so will have to pass fingers all there is . Take a digital source?
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Post by bencat on Nov 23, 2023 20:20:13 GMT
Could do but that might be considered rude also what would offer the required selection ? I could bring a CD Transport but then how many CD,s ?
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Post by Arke on Nov 23, 2023 20:46:21 GMT
Could do but that might be considered rude also what would offer the required selection ? I could bring a CD Transport but then how many CD,s ? It would not be rude at all... Bring your source (and DAC if required - mine is very basic! ). Bring as many CDs as you want. You'll know exactly where you are with your own source too. My system is very much fine tuned for Vibyl, so I can't guarantee how it will sound.
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Post by Bigman80 on Nov 23, 2023 20:47:28 GMT
Could do but that might be considered rude also what would offer the required selection ? I could bring a CD Transport but then how many CD,s ? We took digital but never got to it lol I am sure a conversation with Jason would be more beneficial than this post, but I am very confident Jason would welcome the opportunity to listen to new kit in his room.
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Post by bencat on Nov 23, 2023 21:09:42 GMT
Before anyone thinks I am being awkward I have a problem with vinyl due to tinitus which makes listening to vinyl very uncomfortable for even very short periods . Will have a good think and then PM Jason and see how he feels .
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Post by Arke on Dec 18, 2023 22:18:29 GMT
Well, that is an interesting twist... The top enclosure of my Vaders is now driven by a class D Purifi amp, I had not expected that! It is certainly bringing a smile to my face and providing a decent upgrade. It will remain in my system until a better (and affordable) option presents itself. Full report of the listening experience and the bake off here: audioaddictsforum.com/post/91562/threadWell, it's been a few weeks since the Purifi joined the system.... How is it faring? Was it a flash in the pan? The problem (sometimes) with bake offs (and me) is I get caught up in the moment and am not that objective. I get excited about a new and different sound and that initial excitement could just be the honeymoon period. After all, 'class D isn't great at midrange and HF', so why would I use it on my Vaders? That was certainly my preconception. Any previous experience of class D had been very dry, thin and rather uninteresting... Fast forward nearly four weeks and it's still here. How is it now? Honestly, it's still knocking it out the park! I have been busy trying to trip it up - forward recordings, bad recordings, congested recordings. I am really struggling to make any of my records sound bad on it! It has my foot tapping right now... Herbie Hancock is really funking away in here and this amp is just doing everything so right (in this system and room, and to my ears). Bass is rock solid and always tuneful and dynamic, it has impeccable control and always manages to keep track of even super complex passages. My biggest concern was the incredible transparency... It delves so deep into recordings and (a cliche, I know) I am hearing more in music than I have ever heard before. So what is the downside of this incisive transparency? Well, with that comes a slightly 'hifi' and clinical sound, right? Usually yes... But NOT with the Purifi! There have been no hard edges, no loss of emotion, no loss of that live and realistic sonic picture. Somehow it manages incredible transparency and paints a wonderfully natural and tuneful picture. It is beguiling and I love it. It's certainly pleasing me greatly at the moment and I have no desire to go searching for a younger, fitter and more racy model! Watch this space though... I will be trying another in a few weeks - a bit of class A. Don't get me wrong, I am extremely happy with the Purifi. However, when there's an opportunity to try something else, why not? If it betters the Purifi great, if not, also great. It'll be fun whatever happens.
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