Upgrade Conundrum, DAC, Streamer, or???

lurch

"So the OUT wiring for this would be clock outs 1A & 2A + out 3 for spdif, then on front leave lights in columns 1,3, & 4 on position 1 + column 2 on x2 for 96 khz or should I also put column 1 on x2 so can output at 88.2 khz. Will probably use AES/EBU in from NWB as using Coax in from Node there's currently no audio out if I change the lights on 1 - 4 away from x1. There again this no output is that because it doesn't sense a clock out connection to another device?"

I see you've been reading up on Swahili. 

You do not need to change anything the WC rate automatically adjusts to the incoming sample rate I had eight clients with this set up

I will mention this again cabling here is important 

Off to Studio AV for a listen on Friday afternoon, then the kit will either come back with me for a home audition over the weekend or will be delivered on Saturday as Mike (sales guy) with be visiting the department of music, a dealer in Petworth about 20 miles from me so will drop off.

misterc Just to clarify the Clock cable outs on the Mutec. Do I run the 2 cables from 1 pair of outs (A & B) or should I use say 1A & 2A??
Also haven't forgot about what you said re decent cables, will be addressing that at some point in the near future once I've replenished the hifi cash bucket.

Okay, if not finish too late then I may well pop in.

It's only money John 

If you don't want to spend anymore, STAY OFF THE FORUMS.

pete Well you could get a life instead of sitting at home listening your music.  

pete The 'you' in my post was meant for all us sad audiophiles, you're not the only one, look at me, and this was the year I wasn't going to buy anything, so maybe we both ought to take my advise.

Me also, £0 spend planned for this year, main rig was sounding sooooo good I was just gonna sit back and listen after 5 years of upgrading/box swapping.
So far I'm up to 2.2k on the main rig, with this weekends fun and games to be added so potential for it becoming £5.5k. Have also spent £450 on system 2.
Both figures are without buying music which will probably hit close to £3k.

Hang on Oli, are you, er, buying some shop bought Sh#t?

The Audition PART ONE, 1pm Friday 28/10/22 , Studio AV Chobham.

SAV base system:
Dcs Network Bridge £4k (discontinued 2021)
Copland CSA150 £5k
Avid Reference 4 (standmounts) £23k
Shinyata Hydra 6 £4.5k
Cables, Various inc TQ Black ICs & Supra SC

I took along my Pimped Black Ice DSD & Mutec MC-3+usb and connected it into the above via my Chord Shawline Coax, also Robin (@wizmax) came along as a 2nd pair of ears.
First up I listened to my BI & Mutec to get an aural baseline with the kit I knew, well I thought I did!!! Straight away (using Shawline from NWB tp Mutec) it was Jesus!! That’s not my DAC, more detail, space air, definition etc, we continued listening to this combo for 20 mins to dial ourselves in.
Next up was the main (initial) reason for the visit, pitting my BI + M against the Lab12 DAC1 Reference with a view to upgrading my DAC. This required a change of cables to a Van Damme/Neutrik AES/EBU cable from NWB to Mutec so the Shawline Coax could be used to feed the Lab12 to allow for an a/b comparison + some input level matching. First up was the BI+M, via the aes/ebu the sound had a touch more body but everything else remained the same, after a couple of tracks Mike (SAV) changed inputs, and TBH if it wasn't for the very very small break in the sound neither myself or Robin would have known that we were now listening to the Lab12. WTF, that’s a £3k valve DAC that gets rave reviews Vs a pimped $1100 and £1k clock, ⅔ of the price and yet to both our ears it matched the Lab12. Same, or as same as to make no worthwhile difference, levels of detail, air space, attack etc, just a very minor difference in presentation, both of which I liked. This swapping of inputs continued over the course of 6 or 7 tracks I know well (about an hour) but we still both came to the same conclusion, the Lab12 wasn’t worth taking home for an extended audition. Even Mike the sales guy commented on how good the pimped BI was and he wouldn’t pay £100 for the differences between the 2.
I then said, for sh1ts and giggles, what other DACs do you have here further up the food chain that we can pit my BI against, Robin did ask me why as they’d all be out of my price range, I said its a chance to benchmark what I have against what’s possible and see where in the food chain it is.
Well Mike came up with a couple of beauties:
Dcs Rossini £23k
MSB Discrete + 2x PSU (can accept 4 PSUs) £13,500

First up against the BI+M was the dcs Rossini. The dcs was nice, slightly larger and deeper soundstage, with better leading edges and decay, everything was a bit tighter with slightly improved definition and maybe a tad more cohesive. Yes there were discernible differences between the two, however, for a £21,000 difference in RRP I was expecting it to slap me round the face and fook me brains out with a HUGE difference in performance level. This was not the case, the BI stood its ground well giving most of what the dcs did and only falling short on that last 5%.
Next up was the MSB, Mike said, it would give a slightly different presentation, and it did, being slightly warmer and fuller than the dcs. Once again though it was not £11,500 better than the BI. The BI once again stood its ground well giving most of what the MSB gave and only falling short on that last 5%.

Even though I haven’t come away with a new (to me) DAC, the afternoon was not wasted as it has shown me that whilst it’s limited to 24/96 on Toslink/SPDIF (24/192 usb) I do infact own a very very good DAC. In part that’s down to the expertise of Robert Ayre (@opendoor) and the superb job he’s done with the pimping, but at the end of the day you can’t build properly on dodgy foundations, the Black Ice is a great DAC in it’s own right, which has become a phenomenal one in Roberts’ hands.

I did however come home with a streamer to play with in the form of the dcs Network Bridge which I will be evaluating over the next few days. The NWB will be pitted against my Pimped Node2 & SBooster ECO/Ultra mk2. Dave (@bigfool1956) will be coming over this afternoon to assist with this as he’s a seasoned, or is that jaded reviewer?

Will I keep the Node2 or buy the NWB?? All will be revealed in PT2 of the audition.

I've become more dubious about the "bake off" type of auditions where a relatively quick A/B comparison doesn't reveal much of a difference.

I've found that given more time (days) that the subtleties can actually start to loom quite large. And a £Xk upgrade that was judged poor value can become a must have purchase.

You forgot the £23k stanmounts 😜

Thanks for a great write up, just out of curiosity did Wizzmax feel the same about the comparison between your Black Ice and the pair of more expensive dac's. We've heard a number of dac's, the dCS has bettered all of them. We were hoping to go to a dac bake-off with a couple of members from a different forum, one using a rather nice valve dac.