Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 9, 2022 12:48:30 GMT
Yes macca I had the 1421 at yours, that Chris bought so I bought the 2541 because it had AES input. That was something I wanted so I made the move. So I'm not going doolally then, you did have two of them. Yes, so good I bought two lol |
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Post by misterc on Jun 9, 2022 12:48:31 GMT
Ah, good, interesting. I can't say I am surprised by your initial findings, Oli. Setting aside our audiophile yearnings for the ultimate transparency, rez and dynamics can be a hard hurdle to put behind you. But the musical rewards can be substantial if you are able to. It's all about a closer emotional connection to the musical event. I've no idea at all why the older digital tech can do this so much better than the latest technoperfect digital wizardry, but based on my own experience there's no doubt in my mind that it can. Nail, head interface Jerry 
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 9, 2022 14:09:38 GMT
Yeah, very good points jandl100 I too have no idea why sigma Delta DACs are missing the spot (imagine a dog's leg when he gets a belly rub) by Such a large margin. R-2R or Multibit is so far very preferable to anything Sigma Delta I have heard. More evidence that the listening doesn't always match up to the measurement rankings. |
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Post by sq225917 on Jun 9, 2022 18:49:41 GMT
There's no accounting for taste. I mean, imagine Hendrix without distortion?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 9, 2022 19:15:04 GMT
There's no accounting for taste. I mean, imagine Hendrix without distortion? Haha, he'd just be an outrageous Hank Marvin |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 9, 2022 20:23:47 GMT
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Post by ijrussell on Jun 9, 2022 20:42:59 GMT
Is the K version special like with the (double) crown TDA1541A?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 9, 2022 21:16:21 GMT
Is the K version special like with the (double) crown TDA1541A? Im not sure. The K and K2 are on the priority list for most enthusiastic listeners of this type of DAC, so maybe? I'm fairly new to these types of DAC so I have a lot of reading to do. |
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Post by macca on Jun 10, 2022 7:55:41 GMT
Yeah, very good points jandl100 I too have no idea why sigma Delta DACs are missing the spot (imagine a dog's leg when he gets a belly rub) by Such a large margin. R-2R or Multibit is so far very preferable to anything Sigma Delta I have heard. More evidence that the listening doesn't always match up to the measurement rankings. You've seen a suite of measurements for this DAC? I can't find one but I'd lay odds that it measures fine with no audible anomalies. Generally speaking you've got to spend a lot of money on a DAC if you want one that does it's job badly. |
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Post by misterc on Jun 10, 2022 9:06:08 GMT
Oli
I forgot the DAI was in a swappable dip package thats a easy change looks like the dacs are as well.
A quick glamnces gives me at least 16 areas to umprove and that an easy dac to work on as well should keep you busy for a few nights!
K2 chips were on the main made in Japan (BB had a Japanese facility) they are the P-the fabled 'Y' grade versions which are rarer than Martin admitting that he can hear a difference between cables.
The fun stars now Oli
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Post by brucew268 on Jun 10, 2022 9:39:39 GMT
Really making me wish I had hung onto that Muse DAC 20 years ago! :popcorn: |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 10, 2022 11:42:27 GMT
Oli I forgot the DAI was in a swappable dip package thats a easy change looks like the dacs are as well. A quick glamnces gives me at least 16 areas to umprove and that an easy ac to work on as well should keep you busy for a few nights! K2 chips were on the main made in Japan (BB had a Japanese facility) they are the P-the fabled 'Y' grade versions which are rarer than Martin admitting that he can hear a difference between cables. The fun stars now Oli Well, 16 sounds like a significant amount of upgradable parts.....would you detail them, or does that require me dipping into the wallet? |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 10, 2022 11:48:42 GMT
Really making me wish I had hung onto that Muse DAC 20 years ago! :popcorn: I find it difficult to keep stuff I am not using. So I haven't kept hold of the pieces that are quite rare. I may have to change my approach and start hoarding |
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Post by misterc on Jun 10, 2022 12:02:11 GMT
Oli I forgot the DAI was in a swappable dip package thats a easy change looks like the dacs are as well. A quick glamnces gives me at least 16 areas to umprove and that an easy ac to work on as well should keep you busy for a few nights! K2 chips were on the main made in Japan (BB had a Japanese facility) they are the P-the fabled 'Y' grade versions which are rarer than Martin admitting that he can hear a difference between cables. The fun stars now Oli Well, 16 sounds like a significant amount of upgradable parts.....would you detail them, or does that require me dipping into the wallet? Hello Oli,
It was 16 area's rather than individual parts, lots and lots potential just waiting to be extracted, nothing really fancy needs ot be performed straight away.
I count around 70+ parts, however the idea is you can do this according to your skill level and how comftable you feel in performing the work.
This is how I started many, many, many centuries ago  , but that is fun in exploring how, what and why does this that or nothing at all.
Start with the DIA and DIF swaps, next dac decoupling & suppiles , then i/v stage they is a lot of information on DIY audio regarding this particular dac its great bechmark for starting projects and learning about digital
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Post by misterc on Jun 10, 2022 12:03:41 GMT
I find it difficult to keep stuff I am not using. So I haven't kept hold of the pieces that are quite rare. I may have to change my approach and start hoarding Now you undersatnd why I have 88 dac's |
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Post by brucew268 on Jun 10, 2022 14:09:45 GMT
Really making me wish I had hung onto that Muse DAC 20 years ago! :popcorn: I find it difficult to keep stuff I am not using. So I haven't kept hold of the pieces that are quite rare. I may have to change my approach and start hoarding I sold it back then because I thought it 16/44 SPDIF DACs were becoming obsolete. If I'd then known they eventually could be brought up to 24/96 with just a couple parts... kicking myself now for what I had no way of knowing then... and will watch for one to come up for sale when I'm travelling in America this summer. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 10, 2022 18:05:23 GMT
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Post by jandl100 on Jun 10, 2022 18:35:25 GMT
But do you want to get to 24/192?
I'm just wondering where the magic bits (pun intended) lie in these old DACs.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 10, 2022 18:36:27 GMT
But do you want to get to 24/192? I'm just wondering where the magic bits (pun intended) lie in these old DACs. Well i am going to 24/96....so i suppose we will find out. |
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Post by antonio on Jun 11, 2022 5:24:41 GMT
But do you want to get to 24/192? I'm just wondering where the magic bits (pun intended) lie in these old DACs. I like your thinking Jerry. |
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Post by misterc on Jun 11, 2022 9:27:12 GMT
The PCM 63 /1702 chips can over sample 16 x the incoming 44.1Khz rate which gives 705.6 Khz. 48Khz sampling you can manage (8x) 384Khz. The 1704 dac chips were 8 x 96Khz which is you headphone nurds magic goal of 768Khz. Many have been manufacturer set for 8 x times sampling from the factory anyway. Its just digital input filtering (and maybe some logic control  ) that dictates the maximum incoming sample rate.
I run the Wadia 25 (sorry ran, I sold it) @ 352.8Khz and it sounded glourious making a serious mockery of some quite exhaulted company.
Alan's Holo Spring (maybe thats the May?) is capable of 1.5Mhz which is capable of octo speed dsd. Although the BB dac chips can't cope with that technically, They are a couple of companies that managed to take this to extremes but some very clever DSP trickery, CH Precision, Trinity Audio and Wadia with the 27ix they packet the data into bursts and fire into the chips at a screaming 2.82Mhz.
Does this really effect sound?, this is internal over sampling in hardware, not a software upsampling after leaving the digital output section of the player. That said software upsamplers like HQP player are bit perfect, however do they really sound better or just different?
As I have said before its the transfer from the orginal master to the particular formats that is real key here, I would say over 85% of my listening is at red book master file standard and it does sound better than any streaming service I have listened to including a few guys who are real IT guru's with their etho to fibre converters, three LPS's, 10 Mhz master clock, uber galvanic isolation shunts etc. Yes it improves the sound but @ £10K really plus you are at the mercy of your IP provider.
If the file was recorded in a particular bit & sample rate play it at the same rate other wise use direct multiples of the base sample rate. The internal processing of the dac will not have to compute non direct integers @ 2.5/4.5 and 9 which increases processing power/ heat goes up and rf increases within the dac itself. Does that make difference I really do feel it does from two standpoints one being the sound difference the other being able to physically watch on a Real Time analyser the increase in rf etc as the processors/FPGA's kick up number crunching ability.
This is a really excellent paper on sampling theory although its nearly twenty years old, its an industry standard and holds true today,
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Post by macca on Jun 11, 2022 12:33:15 GMT
This is one of the best, most balanced articles I've read regarding higher sampling rates: www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/high-resolution-audio-does-it-matter.11/TLDR - yes on the grounds that it may be possible for some people to occasionally hear the effect of ringing when using steep filters - although, if true, which isn't certain, this is a benign effect, not hardness or harshness. And if they are recording at higher sampling rates then we might as well play back at them too. |
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edward
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Post by edward on Jun 11, 2022 13:55:47 GMT
With threads like this and Tony's Wadia experiments I sometimes wonder if my Metrum Hex can be improved on with some magic dust. Or a Chevron Paradox filterless NOS DAC hiding somewhere.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 11, 2022 14:15:22 GMT
With threads like this and Tony's Wadia experiments I sometimes wonder if my Metrum Hex can be improved on with some magic dust. Or a Chevron Paradox filterless NOS DAC hiding somewhere. Dig them out and revamp them....you may be very surprised. |
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edward
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Post by edward on Jun 11, 2022 14:20:02 GMT
With threads like this and Tony's Wadia experiments I sometimes wonder if my Metrum Hex can be improved on with some magic dust. Or a Chevron Paradox filterless NOS DAC hiding somewhere. Dig them out and revamp them....you may be very surprised. Would not know where to start. Maybe I'll open up the Chevron and take some pictures? Hopefully Colin at Chevron is not reading here. He may be cross that someone could be thinking of tinkering with his art. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 11, 2022 14:30:58 GMT
Dig them out and revamp them....you may be very surprised. Would not know where to start. Maybe I'll open up the Chevron and take some pictures? Hopefully Colin at Chevron is not reading here. He may be cross that someone could be thinking of tinkering with his art. You have paid your money, you can hit it with the hammer if you choose to! |
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Post by misterc on Jun 11, 2022 16:19:43 GMT
Done this on more than one occassion especially when its usefullness as a door stop expires
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 11, 2022 16:23:17 GMT
Done this on more than one occassion especially when its usefullness as a door stop expires Ive never understood why people get precious about this sort of thing. We we're given an idea from a guy for the multifet boards on the BB3. He'd suggested that doubling up the fets lowered the background noise. We didn't get upset, we tried it and then took it even further because he was right. It's pure ego and nothing more. Get the soldering iron out and get at it. |
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Post by misterc on Jun 11, 2022 16:35:52 GMT
Metrum's respond well to internal restructuring and a DDC especially as the as a NOS unit, been inside many of the Pavane's, they are a little soft and slow, but good timbre and zero edges built well and can be had for sensible money now
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 12, 2022 9:31:23 GMT
I am a few days into listening to the DAC. It has been left on continuously apart from around 10 minutes while I had a little root around its guts a couple of days back. In that time it seems to have settled in nicely.
I am not sure how much use the DAC had in recent years, but it certainly seems to have improved a little over the last couple of days. So, from memory I retraced some listening habits. The Beatles, Simon and Garfunkel, Djmaldi…..the usual suspects are all played through. Without mercy.
The one almost glaring difference I can't ignore is the Parasounds' supremely good tone. I mean, they have absolutely nailed this for me. It isn’t warm, woolly or overly rich, it’s just very natural sounding. Very trustworthy. If you were to have an alien land here and he wanted to know what a clarinet sounded like, I would be very happy with the example the parasound would deliver.
Piano’s are equally as well represented. There is never going to be a full soundboard size sound from this setup, but it’s convincing enough in its weight and its tone.
Goosebumps are a frequent visitor, and they showed up in their number whilst listening to Simon and Garfunkel yesterday. Ok, to be absolutely fair, the Soekris did this too, and the separation of both vocal tracks via the 2541 was such that you get closer to the mixing desk, I suppose. The Parasound is not getting me to the mixing deck, but its doing something else.
It’s like this:
The Parasound presents music with the same feel as if you were there to watch somebody play. Like you’ve paid to be in the gig. Listening to some Dave Brubeck puts me at a seat or a table, maybe two from the front, drink in hand and there to take in the experience of the occasion. RELAXED in the chair, free from consciously listening for micro/macro/nano details, nuances, reflections. Just taking it in, and it doesn’t seem to require any effort or attention to connect in this way.
I am enjoying this.
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, but that is fun in exploring how, what and why does this that or nothing at all.
) that dictates the maximum incoming sample rate.