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Post by misterc on Feb 18, 2021 19:20:19 GMT
It is going to a good home via some internal restructuring and neat psu. Having worked ion this model before, I know the true potential of what this can achieve. Vastly underused digital section just crying out for some gentle easing of its 'performance' lockdown.
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Post by jandl100 on Feb 18, 2021 19:26:22 GMT
Just goes to show we are all different in what we are looking for. Definitely. The guy who got it from me thinks it's his ideal DAC. People hear things differently as well. He thought the Teac we did a px with was warm and laid back, I thought it cold and sterile. We had opposite opinions about how the RME and Teac DACs sounded. Go figure. |
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Post by jandl100 on Feb 18, 2021 19:29:49 GMT
I had a RME, kept it for a week or so. Not bad, but not special either. I thought it a bit bland and a bit safe. PXed it for a Teac UD-501. Now that was sterile and quite unpleasant. Now with a Quad CDP-2 of all things, and that is very entertaining. what have you had that you would class as in the 'unsafe' category then Jerry? That's the trouble with this DAC game, there's millions of the bloody things out there and I've direct experience of about five of them, and couple of them cost way more than I'd consider spending. As per my previous post - we all can hear things differently. What DACs have you heard and what did you think of them? My personal fave DAC atm is the Quad. I've no idea what it is in terms of tech, I just know I like listening to it! |
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Post by macca on Feb 18, 2021 21:30:12 GMT
In my system I've only had the Young, the Xiang Sheng you loaned me, and the Soncoz I'm using now. And the systems changed completely several times since the first two.
I need a bit more 'bite' in the sound, a harder transient attack. Just a touch of it mind.
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Post by jandl100 on Feb 19, 2021 6:07:47 GMT
My experience and opinion is that the RME won't give you the bite, quite the opposite. In my system and to my ears it has an easy going rather bland sound. Others seem to think differently but some users find it dynamically constrained.
Shame I don't still have the Teac,you might have liked that.
For a touch of extra explicitness, the Topping DACs are worth a try; D50 70 & 90. I've had a 70 and whilst it certainly had the rez I found that the sound overall didn't engage me. An SMSL M200 sounded pretty much the same.
I'd be interested to know Alan's thoughts on the Topping D90 and why he moved it on.
My own personal preference and thinking is to forget the current trend of ever more perfect technical specs and go back to previous generations of digital technology.
I really like the Rega DAC, for example! I think it provides music rather than analysis. The MF V90 DAC was also really good.
The Chord Mojo was a great success here, it's my fave Chord DAC up to the Hugo2 (I haven't heard any higher up the range).
I've a 7 year old R2R (MyST 1866) which is great to listen to.
My choice atm is whatever DAC is in the Quad CDP-2.
But, as you say, the audio world is awash with DACs. Impossible to be familiar with more than a small proportion of them.
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Post by macca on Feb 19, 2021 8:00:37 GMT
I'm not keen on Rega cd players so not sure I would like their DAC although did get a listen to one in an all-Rega system and overall it was pretty good.
Chord is out because the styling is unacceptable to me, don't like the silly names either. Hi-fi equipment should have alpha-numeric designations, names are for people and dogs.
I guess I will try a Topping and see how that goes. I like rez, I like an analytical sound, not something that's trying to be 'analogue' i.e all warm and blurry.
I'm still really impressed with this NAD amp, it's as good as any amp I've heard except the absolute top-tier stuff and very listenable. It looks like complete tat, you'd really never guess it was any good from appearance alone.
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Post by jandl100 on Feb 19, 2021 8:18:17 GMT
Cats.
Aren't cats allowed names in macca's neatly regimented world?
"3b, stop scratching that chair!"
“x37, have some cream"
I keep trying with the high tech Chinese amps, but they don't really do it for me. Or maybe it's the output stages in some of the older DACs that make them sound better to me.
We all have to find our own way with gear, so just try some. Loads on ebay.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2021 8:37:19 GMT
I don't find the RME warm. For me it is a neutral sound, with good resolution.
The SEG was warm in comparison.
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Post by jandl100 on Feb 19, 2021 8:55:56 GMT
I don't find the RME warm. For me it is a neutral sound, with good resolution. The SEG was warm in comparison. I found it problematic dynamically rather than tonally. It's a bit laidback imo. That sort of thing is going to have a lot to do with system synergy as well as personal preference. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2021 9:06:05 GMT
I agree. It works well in my system.
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Post by stryder5 on Feb 19, 2021 9:31:31 GMT
I'm looking for something to come up at the moment. You probably right about the RME, I might as well take a punt on that as anything else and I do like the little spectrum analyser. Splash out on a JustBoom to try, I’ve found it surprisingly good. I think Jimbo has one too. its expensive though £25 from Pi Hut, if you want to go the whole hog the box is an extra £8 Gary |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 19, 2021 9:32:45 GMT
I'm not keen on Rega cd players so not sure I would like their DAC although did get a listen to one in an all-Rega system and overall it was pretty good. Chord is out because the styling is unacceptable to me, don't like the silly names either. Hi-fi equipment should have alpha-numeric designations, names are for people and dogs. I guess I will try a Topping and see how that goes. I like rez, I like an analytical sound, not something that's trying to be 'analogue' i.e all warm and blurry. I'm still really impressed with this NAD amp, it's as good as any amp I've heard except the absolute top-tier stuff and very listenable. It looks like complete tat, you'd really never guess it was any good from appearance alone. Chord DAC64 Definitly one of their better looking units. |
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Post by jandl100 on Feb 19, 2021 9:56:27 GMT
DAC64 - yup, that passes the macca model name constraints test QBD76 - should be good,too. Hugo or DAVE, nup. As for the Qutest or 2Qute .....far too frivolous  |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 19, 2021 9:59:27 GMT
DAC64 - yup, that passes the macca model name constraints test QBD76 - should be good,too. Hugo or DAVE, nup. As for the Qutest..... We have a winner!!!! Lol Seriously, I'd look at one of these macca Chord pretty much embody the sound you're after and they are a doddle to sell if you don't like it. I still think the issue is the amplifiers you are using pale in comparison to your Krell KSA50s The DAC may not be helping, but I think the combo of DAC and Amp are what's possibly causing your issues. |
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Post by misterc on Feb 19, 2021 10:53:08 GMT
Actually the Hugo is ok with a different psu, imho far more preferable than the Dave |
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Post by macca on Feb 19, 2021 11:10:49 GMT
Cats. Aren't cats allowed names in macca's neatly regimented world? "3b, stop scratching that chair!" “x37, have some cream" I keep trying with the high tech Chinese amps, but they don't really do it for me. Or maybe it's the output stages in some of the older DACs that make them sound better to me. We all have to find our own way with gear, so just try some. Loads on ebay. lol Cats don't care what you call them, they have their own names. The problem with looking for DACs on ebay is that if you don't know what you're looking for you have to trail through a million pages of them. I do like to have digital control of volume and a lot of the oldies don't seem to have that. |
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Post by macca on Feb 19, 2021 11:17:38 GMT
DAC64 - yup, that passes the macca model name constraints test QBD76 - should be good,too. Hugo or DAVE, nup. As for the Qutest..... We have a winner!!!! Lol Seriously, I'd look at one of these macca Chord pretty much embody the sound you're after and they are a doddle to sell if you don't like it. I still think the issue is the amplifiers you are using pale in comparison to your Krell KSA50s The DAC may not be helping, but I think the combo of DAC and Amp are what's possibly causing your issues. used DAC 64 - 2 grand! And they look awful too. The KSA 50Sl has defied all attempts to fix it. Tried to buy another but there are none anywhere. I would have agreed with your last statement but I have tried that many amps now I'm no longer entirely certain that's true. I will try the DCB 1 with the NAD and see what that brings to the party. Thing with the DCB1 is that with some power amps it created an earth/ground loop and generates hum. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 19, 2021 11:19:46 GMT
We have a winner!!!! Lol Seriously, I'd look at one of these macca Chord pretty much embody the sound you're after and they are a doddle to sell if you don't like it. I still think the issue is the amplifiers you are using pale in comparison to your Krell KSA50s The DAC may not be helping, but I think the combo of DAC and Amp are what's possibly causing your issues. used DAC 64 - 2 grand! And they look awful too. The KSA 50Sl has defied all attempts to fix it. Tried to buy another but there are none anywhere. I would have agreed with your last statement but I have tried that many amps now I'm no longer entirely certain that's true. I will try the DCB 1 with the NAD and see what that brings to the party. Thing with the DCB1 is that with some power amps it created an earth/ground loop and generates hum. I'll send you my BT2 to try at some point. A used DAC64 went for £500 on Hifi wigwam the other day, so wait a little before you do anything |
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Post by misterc on Feb 19, 2021 11:28:25 GMT
The presentation that Martin likes I would suggest the LKS MH-DA004 DAC, it has dynmaics and slam that Chord dacs can only dream about, it nicely detailed and Amir loved it when he tested it, plus the essential Sabre 8 chips in one dac package.
It really does tick the vast majority of the boxes you are looking for Martin, plus I2s if you wish to go down that route as well.
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Post by macca on Feb 19, 2021 12:04:00 GMT
Thanks for the suggestion Tony. I had a look but none on Amazon, a few on eBay but all from overseas. And a bit pricey to take a blind punt on.
If the DCB1 works with the NAD I might go for the Boombox thing as I won't need adjustable volume. Cheap enough to write off if a failure plus Jim likes it and he's even fussier than me.
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Post by macca on Feb 19, 2021 12:25:27 GMT
DCB1 does not work with the NAD, hum on one channel.
Why would both Krells and the XTZ be fine with it but all the others hum?
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Post by firebottle on Feb 19, 2021 12:33:40 GMT
You're in a parallel universe so hum problems only occur on one channel..
(Open channel D)
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Post by jandl100 on Feb 19, 2021 12:43:13 GMT
Martin's always been in a parallel universe |
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Post by macca on Feb 19, 2021 12:46:48 GMT
You're in a parallel universe so hum problems only occur on one channel.. (Open channel D) They do with this DCB1, what else can I say? |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 19, 2021 12:55:20 GMT
DCB1 does not work with the NAD, hum on one channel. Why would both Krells and the XTZ be fine with it but all the others hum? I don't have a lot of faith in the build quality of that unit Macca and i have suggested you replace it with something else. Want to try my BT2? I can live without it for a couple of weeks. Ill send you a pair of cables to try too  Just cover the postage. |
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Post by macca on Feb 19, 2021 13:53:07 GMT
That's very generous mate, of course I'll cover the postage.
If I like the BT2 can they just be bought or is it some sort of kit or project? Not much point me trying it and not being able to get one of my own.
I did have the DCB1 checked over by an experienced EE. He re-flowed a few joints but otherwise said it was fine.
Its possible that there is something about the design of the DCB1 that causes the issue, with three of my power amps it is fine, with the other three it isn't. I doubt most owners of one have so many power amps to test it with. It worked fine with Alan's Neurochrome 286 as well.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 19, 2021 14:16:02 GMT
That's very generous mate, of course I'll cover the postage. If I like the BT2 can they just be bought or is it some sort of kit or project? Not much point me trying it and not being able to get one of my own. I did have the DCB1 checked over by an experienced EE. He re-flowed a few joints but otherwise said it was fine. Its possible that there is something about the design of the DCB1 that causes the issue, with three of my power amps it is fine, with the other three it isn't. I doubt most owners of one have so many power amps to test it with. It worked fine with Alan's Neurochrome 286 as well. I used my DCB1 with everything and anything and never had a problem . Anyway, the BT2 isn't technically for sale yet, but I wouldn't leave you hanging. We can sort something out. Send me your address and I'll post it up. |
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Post by stryder5 on Feb 19, 2021 15:17:34 GMT
Thanks for the suggestion Tony. I had a look but none on Amazon, a few on eBay but all from overseas. And a bit pricey to take a blind punt on. If the DCB1 works with the NAD I might go for the Boombox thing as I won't need adjustable volume. Cheap enough to write off if a failure plus Jim likes it and he's even fussier than me. My JustBoom is really opening up after probably 40 hrs. Not saying this is a £1000+ slayer. Are you using the pre amp on the Soncoz? If so have you tried without, there were 2 firmware versions, one bypassed the pre and IMHO sounded more up front and dynamic. You could always set pre amp section to 0dB, not quite the same but worth a try? The Topping E30 I found more laid back than the Soncoz f2. I always thought the LK 100 was “slow” when I had one the 80 seemed more dynamic. Gary |
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Post by macca on Feb 19, 2021 15:30:15 GMT
tried the Soncoz as DAC only with DCB1 and the working Krell. Preferred Soncoz directly into Krell without the pre-amp.
Can't try Soncoz both ways with some of the other power amps (Nad, Linn, Philips Black Tulip) due to the hum issue with the DCB1
Suppose I could use the Black Tulip pre-amp. There's just so many possible combinations. I've tried a lot of them but it's not quite there with any so far.
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Post by sq225917 on Feb 19, 2021 20:03:02 GMT
Macca, does the hum move channels when you switch rca input into the back panel of the and. If it does its the pre, if it doesn't its the and.
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Just cover the postage.