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Post by jandl100 on Mar 1, 2020 17:13:46 GMT
Magnificent beasties, those Technics - although I'm not as smitten by the sound as you. More than decent but not exceptional imo.
I like the more upmarket Pioneers like my DV-737, very lively and open.
Bizarrely, I'm also very partial to Arcam DVD players used as CD transports.
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Post by macca on Mar 1, 2020 17:38:22 GMT
Magnificent beasties, those Technics - although I'm not as smitten by the sound as you. More than decent but not exceptional imo. Yes, I suppose I'd agree with that assessment. Although I've had three of them now and they all sounded different and had different layouts inside too. I still think the first one I had, the broadcast variant that had the XLR outputs was the best sounding. The other two are a bit smoother sounding, maybe overly so. |
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Post by macca on Mar 3, 2020 18:25:53 GMT
Well it seems whatever CD player I put into this system none of them are giving me that magic sound quality I was getting with the Sony XB790QS. Not even the SLP1200. I've been told the Tascam is on the bench and being fixed right now, seems it was a more complex issue than I had hoped. But frankly I will be surprised if it cuts the mustard. I think the sensible solution is to go streaming... Nah only kidding! I've been trawling ebay for CD players, there's a few I'd quite like to try but I think the really sensible thing to do is to buy another XB790QS as I know that works like a dream with both the XTZ/Black Tulip combo and the DCB1/Krell KSA50 combo. £120 and yet another CD player to add to the pile but what can you do? First, though, I'm going to see if I can sort the problem with the exiting one. Came across this which is a fantastic resource for diagnosing and fixing CD player problems www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/troubleshooting-cd-players.440522/ I'm crap at fixing things (ham-fisted, no patience) but there's nothing to lose by having a go. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 3, 2020 18:30:25 GMT
Well it seems whatever CD player I put into this system none of them are giving me that magic sound quality I was getting with the Sony XB790QS. Not even the SLP1200. I've been told the Tascam is on the bench and being fixed right now, seems it was a more complex issue than I had hoped. But frankly I will be surprised if it cuts the mustard. I think the sensible solution is to go streaming... Nah only kidding! I've been trawling ebay for CD players, there's a few I'd quite like to try but I think the really sensible thing to do is to buy another XB790QS as I know that works like a dream with both the XTZ/Black Tulip combo and the DCB1/Krell KSA50 combo. £120 and yet another CD player to add to the pile but what can you do? First, though, I'm going to see if I can sort the problem with the exiting one. Came across this which is a fantastic resource for diagnosing and fixing CD player problems www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/troubleshooting-cd-players.440522/ I'm crap at fixing things (ham-fisted, no patience) but there's nothing to lose by having a go. Give streaming a try Macca |
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Post by macca on Mar 3, 2020 18:36:33 GMT
I'd have to copy all my CDs for starters, that takes ages of cocking about with software, which inevitably means having to sort issues that shouldn't even be possible meaning hours of randomly pissing about to fix. All you streamer types gloss over all this stuff but I know it happens. And what's the guarantee that it'll do the job for me? It seems to be taken for granted that streaming is better but I've never heard a streaming system that was doing anything a good CD player can't.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 3, 2020 19:10:37 GMT
I'd have to copy all my CDs for starters, that takes ages of cocking about with software, which inevitably means having to sort issues that shouldn't even be possible meaning hours of randomly pissing about to fix. All you streamer types gloss over all this stuff but I know it happens. And what's the guarantee that it'll do the job for me? It seems to be taken for granted that streaming is better but I've never heard a streaming system that was doing anything a good CD player can't. Macca, I promise you an experience that is nothing like the one you mentioned. Get a PecanPi, SSD and you'll be amazed at how easy and reliable it is. I've been using my RPI for over a year now and only had 1 time I had to switch it off and on again to get the laptop to find it I'm not gonna try and convince you about what's better, but I would bet a decent chunk on you not feeling like you're missing out |
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Post by macca on Mar 22, 2020 12:25:17 GMT
Two experiments to try today - well three actually 1) Try new incredibly thin speaker cable sent to me by Johnjo from AoS with the Phillips Black Tulip amp 2) Try XTZ pre-amp with Krell KSA100 Mk2 using Spotfire speaker cable 3) Try new incredibly thin speaker cable with Krell KSA100 mk2 and try both the XTZ and DCB1 pre-amps with that combination. Might have to go out in a bit so not sure I'll get them all done today. Okay so a month on I'm now having a go at combo number 2) - XTZ pre with the Krell KSA100 - with the Spotfire interconnects and speaker cable. If you recall I was finding that the KSA100 sounded a bit too soft and warm for my taste, but my thinking is that this might be down to the match of pre and power amp, the DCB1 being a passive it might just be something to do with the impedance matching or something similarly arcane. It's all set up, will do some listening and report back. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 22, 2020 13:18:32 GMT
Two experiments to try today - well three actually 1) Try new incredibly thin speaker cable sent to me by Johnjo from AoS with the Phillips Black Tulip amp 2) Try XTZ pre-amp with Krell KSA100 Mk2 using Spotfire speaker cable 3) Try new incredibly thin speaker cable with Krell KSA100 mk2 and try both the XTZ and DCB1 pre-amps with that combination. Might have to go out in a bit so not sure I'll get them all done today. Okay so a month on I'm now having a go at combo number 2) - XTZ pre with the Krell KSA100 - with the Spotfire interconnects and speaker cable. If you recall I was finding that the KSA100 sounded a bit too soft and warm for my taste, but my thinking is that this might be down to the match of pre and power amp, the DCB1 being a passive it might just be something to do with the impedance matching or something similarly arcane. It's all set up, will do some listening and report back. Awaiting the report! |
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Post by macca on Mar 22, 2020 13:42:38 GMT
Played a couple of albums. Interesting that I'd pretty much say overall that the Krell is a better amplifier than the Philips Black Tulip, especially in terms of the bass and the control it has over the speakers. That's noticeable right from the off. But in terms of tone I'm listening now to 'Couldn't Stand The Weather' which is quite a 'glassy' digital production, very polished. The Phillips conveys that character intact but the Krell makes it sound more 'organic' and analogue.
Which I think is down to that slightly soft quality it has. I don't think using an active pre-amp has tempered that, maybe by a little. I'll have to put the DCB1 back in and compare again but it's certainly still there, most obvious on snare strikes and cymbals. Not to the extent that it spoils the sound but it's stopping a good sounding system from being a great sounding system.
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Post by dsjr on Mar 22, 2020 13:51:14 GMT
Is that KSA50S still not sorted then? I can't bloody afford one, but my hidden rebel wants me to try a Schiit Saga S - www.schiit.co.uk/preamps/Saga_SSlim, modern designs from this company seem decent and well performing especially digital now, and no nonsense foo-fi presentation in their ss models. I bet it's fine! £300 if you can get one is very good for input switching, volume control and a hopefully half decent line buffer! 10k input impedance a bit marginal but if the pot value change in the passives I used to make from 47k to 10k is anything to go by, a little perceived/imagined bass weight 'difference' is all it does and the >5V output at 75 ohm source impedance is excellent for all but the fussiest top Class D amps with no gain buffers on their front ends. One thing ATC monitor ownership showed me, is how coloured much domestic gear has been, at least in the past and analogue preamps are no exception. As for CD players, I'd suggest macca looks at better vintage Denons not too old. The 1520 I have may invert phase (I'm not sure), but the 'sound' is honest and neutral. The 1015 I was given from a later internally simpler line also *sounds* pretty much the same an donly the clunkier drawer and light built separates them. many players optimised for the audiophile market are sonically hobbled in various ways to have an innacurate but 'nice' sound in my experience and some of this is coming out now as time goes on. |
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Post by dsjr on Mar 22, 2020 13:57:49 GMT
But in terms of tone I'm listening now to 'Couldn't Stand The Weather' which is quite a 'glassy' digital production, very polished. Glassy Digital? Must disagree here. It's a superb recording on vinyl and CD and I heard it again on a top system (PMC Fenestria's) only a few months ago. It should have a stunning 3-D-space quality to it and when he's singing Tin Pan Alley, he should be telling you a story in song, not reading blandly from a lyric sheet... |
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Post by macca on Mar 22, 2020 16:50:23 GMT
lol though someone would mis-interpret that. Yes it is a superb recording but it has a 'character' to it. Really crisp and 'hi-fi'. Robert Plant's albums from the same era have it too. It isn't a bad thing, but because of that when it is slightly rounded off it's pretty obvious.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2020 19:51:37 GMT
Some great pieces of classic hifi there Martin. I liked the Technics when I heard Jerry's some while back. Some nice speakers in that lot too.
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Post by macca on Apr 10, 2020 9:09:16 GMT
As of today - Pioneer DVD565A, XTZ A100-D3 (as pre-amp only), Krell KSA100Mk2, JM Labs Elektra 926:    cables and interconnects are all Bigbottle Spotify |
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Post by antonio on Apr 10, 2020 10:33:06 GMT
Does the Pioneer really do justice to the rest of your system Macca? I'm sure you will eventually get the Technics repaired, and that will go back in the system.
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Post by macca on Apr 10, 2020 11:10:22 GMT
Does the Pioneer really do justice to the rest of your system Macca? I'm sure you will eventually get the Technics repaired, and that will go back in the system. Short answer is I don't know. There's nothing wrong with how it sounds so it's one of those situations where you don't know what you're missing until you put something better in there. There's a DAC in the XTZ so I could use it as a transport only, see if there's any difference. I suspect not. I might try that later on just to kill time. Or I could swap the XTZ for the DCB1 pre. I was hoping to get my Tascam player back from the shop but this corona thing has put the kybosh on that. It's a pro jobbie and I was interested to try it. Plus it has an orange display. That's important. I know what you're saying, on paper it is a bit of a mullet system at the moment. In practice not so much as you might think. |
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Post by antonio on Apr 10, 2020 13:15:01 GMT
Pleased to hear that, and if you can still enjoy your music all's good.
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Post by macca on Apr 10, 2020 14:27:21 GMT
it's plenty good enough to enjoy music on. Not the best sound I've ever had but its not far off enough to be fretting about.
Think I will have a swap about tomorrow because I want to put the XTZ back in the telly system.
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Post by jandl100 on Apr 10, 2020 14:32:23 GMT
It's a shame you don't believe DACs sound different, those Pioneers excel as transports. With a decent DAC you'd have a great front end imo.
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Post by macca on Apr 10, 2020 18:36:59 GMT
It's a shame you don't believe DACs sound different, those Pioneers excel as transports. With a decent DAC you'd have a great front end imo. I've never said that. I think we're all prone to exaggerating differences in our heads though. I did use it as a transport with that Xiang Sheng DAC I borrowed off you, it was slightly different rather than 'better' though. That maybe because there was an extra pre-amp stage in the path though. I also tried it with a Young DAC which I think were quite pricey and could not make out any difference at all. I will try it with the XTZ DAC tomorrow. |
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Post by macca on Apr 10, 2020 18:38:37 GMT
Mind you think about it the speakers and amplification were all different back then...
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Post by jandl100 on Apr 10, 2020 19:13:56 GMT
Well, obviously, I don't know what you heard - but ime DACs can vary as much in sound as amps can - I'd call the Xiang Sheng a "wtf!" sound difference compared to the DAC in the Pioneer (I've had and still have several Pioneers like yours). It does make me wonder about the kit you had back then. As for the Young, now there's a "meh" DAC!  ... the first thing a lot of folks do is stick a decent external PSU on it to buck it up a bit. |
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Post by macca on Apr 26, 2020 8:21:06 GMT
Some random pics because I'm bored. Above - Krell KSA50s with Sansui graphic equalizer sat on top
Random pile of cd players
Rekkids gathering dust:
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Post by macca on Apr 26, 2020 8:26:46 GMT
Put the DCB1 back in. Is it better than the XTZ pre? Yes, but not by a massive amount. Don't seem to be able to find these huge leaps in performance just from changing a plug or whatever. Oh well.
oops wrong photo, here it is:
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Post by hammer on Apr 26, 2020 11:51:17 GMT
You totally given up on vinyl Macca?
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Post by firebottle on Apr 26, 2020 11:55:52 GMT
You're behind the times, Martin gave up his TT yonks ago.
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Post by macca on Apr 26, 2020 11:59:06 GMT
Yes, a few years ago now. Replaced all my favourites with the CD versions. Can't bring myself to sell the records or the record player though. A man should have a record collection and a turntable even if in practice it never gets used.  |
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Post by hammer on Apr 26, 2020 14:21:56 GMT
☺
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Post by macca on May 25, 2020 16:02:55 GMT
Upgraded my DCB1 yesterday. I Put a little square of duct tape over the blue power LED. It was so bright you could bring down an aircraft with it. Massive improvement. It still shines clearly through the tape so still works as a power indicator, it just doesn't dazzle me anymore.
Very few problems in life that can't be solved with a bit of judiciously deployed duct tape.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 25, 2020 16:13:31 GMT
Upgraded my DCB1 yesterday. I Put a little square of duct tape over the blue power LED. It was so bright you could bring down an aircraft with it. Massive improvement. It still shines clearly through the tape so still works as a power indicator, it just doesn't dazzle me anymore. Very few problems in life that can't be solved with a bit of judiciously deployed duct tape. Hahaha....easy fix |
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... the first thing a lot of folks do is stick a decent external PSU on it to buck it up a bit.
