Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 8, 2021 11:46:52 GMT
There's a SP10R for sale at Emporium. I must admit, I did see if I could scrape the funds together. Just had a look, the Bardo sports decent figures of Wow & Flutter 0.07% linear, 0.035% weighted and rumble of 64 dB (test record DIN 45544); -68 dB That's not bad at all. Is that the one, a bargain at £8K? £8k is still a bit high for an open box IMO, but I'd have haggled hard.
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Post by pete on Dec 8, 2021 11:56:33 GMT
Is that the one, a bargain at £8K? £8k is still a bit high for an open box IMO, but I'd have haggled hard. Yep, with a bit of haggling could be a great buy for someone with a spare few £ laying around looking for a home. Wish I had some!!
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Post by robbiegong on Dec 8, 2021 12:19:50 GMT
£8k is still a bit high for an open box IMO, but I'd have haggled hard. Yep, with a bit of haggling could be a great buy for someone with a spare few £ laying around looking for a home. Wish I had some!! Yeah, Whilst it wouldn't be 'necessary', in the true sense, already having the SP10 MK2 and with AT1010MK8, it still would be very nice if doable - a real looker too
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 8, 2021 12:25:43 GMT
Yep, with a bit of haggling could be a great buy for someone with a spare few £ laying around looking for a home. Wish I had some!! Yeah, Whilst it wouldn't be 'necessary', in the true sense, already having the SP10 MK2 and with AT1010MK8, it still would be very nice if doable - a real looker too I am not sure how much there is to be gained by making that move, but i certainly would do it if funds permitted. It may be a giant waste of money?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2021 15:40:08 GMT
An SP10R is on the list or retirement present I am buying myself, if I still have decent hearing.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 8, 2021 16:25:55 GMT
An SP10R is on the list or retirement present I am buying myself, if I still have decent hearing. That's the thing isn't it. If you hold off....you may not!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2021 16:33:06 GMT
An SP10R is on the list or retirement present I am buying myself, if I still have decent hearing. That's the thing isn't it. If you hold off....you may not! I can’t imagine telling my Mrs that she can’t have a new car as I bought a TT though…. I could free up some funds in 3 to 4 years, and buy one, but it is not going to be miles better than my SL1200. I don’t care what anybody says, it will only be a small improvement.
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Post by robbiegong on Dec 8, 2021 17:05:05 GMT
That's the thing isn't it. If you hold off....you may not! I can’t imagine telling my Mrs that she can’t have a new car as I bought a TT though…. I could free up some funds in 3 to 4 years, and buy one, but it is not going to be miles better than my SL1200. I don’t care what anybody says, it will only be a small improvement. small improvement - if by that you mean it wont be night and day / very obvious then in my experience genuine improvements in this game are more often not to that immediately obvious and apparent degree - However, spending time, getting through albums, tunes, you really start to know and realise the improvements that come through. My SL1210 you'll remember was also heavily modded but the music through my SP10 sounds better, more spot on to my ears and that's more about it as a platform, where it pretty much disappears out of the way and lets the music / set up do its thing, without any hindrance that I can detect whatsoever.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2021 18:20:22 GMT
A lot of the character is down to the arm in use. Once the platter is spinning around at a steady speed, with a low noise bearing, there is not much else…
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Post by antonio on Dec 8, 2021 18:48:07 GMT
A lot of the character is down to the arm in use. Once the platter is spinning around at a steady speed, with a low noise bearing, there is not much else…
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Post by robbiegong on Dec 8, 2021 19:04:23 GMT
A lot of the character is down to the arm in use. Once the platter is spinning around at a steady speed, with a low noise bearing, there is not much else… Big "I'm certain/absolute" statement there Kevin. Indeed tonearm plays a good part but it plays an even better part on a better foundational platform in my experience. My heavily modded techie had a nice Micro Seiki MA202 on it, with ebony armboard ( you may already know/remember that), with re-wire upgrade, hybrid ceramic bearings and vta. If I could swap back to the 1210 with a very high end tonearm on it, I would still choose to keep the SP10 I have.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2021 19:06:51 GMT
Let’s be honest. Once you have a good motor unit, that spins the record at the correct speed, and minimises vibrations, the arm may flavour the cartridge output, depending on what it is.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2021 19:12:29 GMT
A lot of the character is down to the arm in use. Once the platter is spinning around at a steady speed, with a low noise bearing, there is not much else… Big "I'm certain/absolute" statement there Kevin. Indeed tonearm plays a good part but it plays an even better part on a better foundational platform in my experience. My heavily modded techie had a nice Micro Seiki MA202 on it, with ebony armboard ( you may already know/remember that), with re-wire upgrade, hybrid ceramic bearings and vta. If I could swap back to the 1210 with a very high end tonearm on it, I would still choose to keep the SP10 I have. You put the “wrong” feet on an SP10, and it could sound worse than an SL1200. it’s true that my SL1200 is not as heavily modded as yours was, but I think the package works well. The spin bearing is very good, the platter works well and the arm adds very little to the sound.
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Post by lurch on Dec 8, 2021 19:25:02 GMT
It's definitely not a cart flavour change when you upgrade the arm on a very good motor unit. When I 1st got my Bardo I was running and Encounter 3C, early last year I upgraded to a Conqueror 3C (same cart) and I was staggered at the difference more detail, bigger soundstage, the space between instruments......... This year I started playing with Koetsus and had a Black on the Conqueror when I upgraded to a 12"Enterprise Mk4, again there was just more of everything and if anything the sound became more effortless. The Enterprise allowed the Black to show its full potential, I've since changed to an RSP, whilst OL have 2 and soon to be 3 arms above the Enterprise I'm more than happy where I am. So arms do make a real difference if given the right foundations.
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Post by robbiegong on Dec 8, 2021 19:25:35 GMT
Big "I'm certain/absolute" statement there Kevin. Indeed tonearm plays a good part but it plays an even better part on a better foundational platform in my experience. My heavily modded techie had a nice Micro Seiki MA202 on it, with ebony armboard ( you may already know/remember that), with re-wire upgrade, hybrid ceramic bearings and vta. If I could swap back to the 1210 with a very high end tonearm on it, I would still choose to keep the SP10 I have. You put the “wrong” feet on an SP10, and it could sound worse than an SL1200. it’s true that my SL1200 is not as heavily modded as yours was, but I think the package works well. The spin bearing is very good, the platter works well and the arm adds very little to the sound. Wouldnt dispute any of that Kevin, but having had the experience, travelled the long road of upgrade, modding and years spent with a very well sorted 1210, and not forgetting the thousands spent, if I'd have known then what I know and have now, I would have just bought the SP10 from the off and done with it -seriously. That was my very apparent and conscious early thought, once I'd spent very little time with the SP10, oh and that is most definitely not to say the 1210 wasnt good
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2021 19:31:36 GMT
You put the “wrong” feet on an SP10, and it could sound worse than an SL1200. it’s true that my SL1200 is not as heavily modded as yours was, but I think the package works well. The spin bearing is very good, the platter works well and the arm adds very little to the sound. Wouldnt dispute any of that Kevin, but having had the experience, travelled the long road of upgrade, modding and years spent with a very well sorted 1210, and not forgetting the thousands spent, if I'd have known then what I know and have now, I would have just bought the SP10 from the off and done with it -seriously. That was my very apparent and conscious early thought, once I'd spent very little time with the SP10, oh and that is most definitely not to say the 1210 wasnt good My SL1200 has cost me around £1.5k total. Bang for buck, you will have a job beating it. Arms do have a flavour. Most ring, or have a frequency spike from plots I have seen.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 8, 2021 19:35:13 GMT
You put the “wrong” feet on an SP10, and it could sound worse than an SL1200. it’s true that my SL1200 is not as heavily modded as yours was, but I think the package works well. The spin bearing is very good, the platter works well and the arm adds very little to the sound. Wouldnt dispute any of that Kevin, but having had the experience, travelled the long road of upgrade, modding and years spent with a very well sorted 1210, and not forgetting the thousands spent, if I'd have known then what I know and have now, I would have just bought the SP10 from the off and done with it -seriously. That was my very apparent and conscious early thought, once I'd spent very little time with the SP10, oh and that is most definitely not to say the 1210 wasnt good I believe the mods cost more than an SP10 in a Panzer plinth, so like you Rob, I'd stick the cash on the SP10. Its a beast. The 1200/1210 would be a huge upgrade for 90% of people in this hobby, but it gets unfairly overlooked due to its rep as a DJ deck. I like the 1210, but I like the SP10 far more.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 8, 2021 19:36:25 GMT
Wouldnt dispute any of that Kevin, but having had the experience, travelled the long road of upgrade, modding and years spent with a very well sorted 1210, and not forgetting the thousands spent, if I'd have known then what I know and have now, I would have just bought the SP10 from the off and done with it -seriously. That was my very apparent and conscious early thought, once I'd spent very little time with the SP10, oh and that is most definitely not to say the 1210 wasnt good My SL1200 has cost me around £1.5k total. Bang for buck, you will have a job beating it. Arms do have a flavour. Most ring, or have a frequency spike from plots I have seen. It really is a shame you don't live closer, K.
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Post by robbiegong on Dec 8, 2021 19:39:07 GMT
Wouldnt dispute any of that Kevin, but having had the experience, travelled the long road of upgrade, modding and years spent with a very well sorted 1210, and not forgetting the thousands spent, if I'd have known then what I know and have now, I would have just bought the SP10 from the off and done with it -seriously. That was my very apparent and conscious early thought, once I'd spent very little time with the SP10, oh and that is most definitely not to say the 1210 wasnt good My SL1200 has cost me around £1.5k total. Bang for buck, you will have a job beating it. Arms do have a flavour. Most ring, or have a frequency spike from plots I have seen. bang for buck you won't beat an SP10 Mk2, period
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Post by macca on Dec 8, 2021 19:41:46 GMT
The 1200 does need a better arm than the stock one though if it is to properly compete with the super decks.
I've heard them with all sorts of levels of mods but there was one that had only had the arm changed and it was a big step up. I didn't expect that at the time.
After that the step up to the SP10 is smaller but still significant.
Turntables probably the only component where absolutely anything that you do to it really does make a difference, positive or negative.
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Post by robbiegong on Dec 8, 2021 19:42:05 GMT
Wouldnt dispute any of that Kevin, but having had the experience, travelled the long road of upgrade, modding and years spent with a very well sorted 1210, and not forgetting the thousands spent, if I'd have known then what I know and have now, I would have just bought the SP10 from the off and done with it -seriously. That was my very apparent and conscious early thought, once I'd spent very little time with the SP10, oh and that is most definitely not to say the 1210 wasnt good I believe the mods cost more than an SP10 in a Panzer plinth, so like you Rob, I'd stick the cash on the SP10. Its a beast. The 1200/1210 would be a huge upgrade for 90% of people in this hobby, but it gets unfairly overlooked due to its rep as a DJ deck. I like the 1210, but I like the SP10 far more. Have to agree, had two 1210's over the years and really liked and enjoyed both, especially my last and supercharged one, but I like the SP10 far more too
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 8, 2021 20:04:54 GMT
My SL1200 has cost me around £1.5k total. Bang for buck, you will have a job beating it. Arms do have a flavour. Most ring, or have a frequency spike from plots I have seen. bang for buck you won't beat an SP10 Mk2, period 100%
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 8, 2021 20:06:06 GMT
The 1200 does need a better arm than the stock one though if it is to properly compete with the super decks. I've heard them with all sorts of levels of mods but there was one that had only had the arm changed and it was a big step up. I didn't expect that at the time. After that the step up to the SP10 is smaller but still significant. Turntables probably the only component where absolutely anything that you do to it really does make a difference, positive or negative. Yeah, the arm isn't cack, but it's not good enough for anyone serious about vinyl. Unfortunately, fitting a PMAT1010 MK8 isn't possible due to the overhang or I'd have had one on Alan's 1210 before now!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2021 20:34:04 GMT
So have any of you guys tried the same arm that you have had on an SL1200 on the SP10? From the looks of it, you have all upgraded the arms, so you are comparing apples with oranges.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2021 20:37:54 GMT
My SL1200 has cost me around £1.5k total. Bang for buck, you will have a job beating it. Arms do have a flavour. Most ring, or have a frequency spike from plots I have seen. bang for buck you won't beat an SP10 Mk2, period You don’t live in France. link
What am I getting for the extra 4.5k? An arm I need to replace, and a slightly better wow and flutter. Bargain….
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2021 20:41:03 GMT
Cheapest one for sale on HiFi shark is €2.5k
Then it needs modifying, and a new arm.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 8, 2021 20:42:25 GMT
Cheapest one for sale on HiFi shark is €2.5k Then it needs modifying, and a new arm. Well, thats not our fault 🤣
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2021 20:51:58 GMT
Never said it was….
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2021 20:52:43 GMT
But I question the best “bang for buck is an SP10, period….”
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 8, 2021 21:06:15 GMT
But I question the best “bang for buck is an SP10, period….” Ok, maybe not in France, but I'd say it's very high on the list in the UK..... probably better in Japan.
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