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Post by antonio on Jul 13, 2018 12:29:45 GMT
You enjoy your Firebottle amps, and you buy a Monachy amp just to try. Why not keep enjoying your Firebottle, don't fill you head with doubts/ifs and buts, just enjoy your music. When the time comes to upgrade get dems of appropriate equipment.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 13, 2018 12:36:23 GMT
I think Rudi a good point when he mentions this hobby attracting obsessive types. I can’t speak for all box swappers, but I do tend to obsess over having something, then I get tired of it once it’s been with me for a bit. Also, if you are more interested in the gear than music, it can simply be a hobby in itself. Much like people who swap cars regularly. At least you won’t lose money with hifi. I’m less likely to box swap these days because getting it here is a chore. Plus I am very happy with what I have. But I still lust after a Leben. Will it be better than my Sonneteer? I’d bet money that it isn’t, but at least I will be able to enjoy the experience of having it. And I could be wrong  Edit: I completely get the Class A thing too. I used to wonder, as do many. Having had a dozen or so example, I heard nothing consistent that I could claim to be a “class A” sound. The only consistent element was the “class A” labelling in the amps. |
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Post by macca on Jul 13, 2018 12:39:01 GMT
No dealers within 20 mile of me in any direction, unless you count Richer Sounds which I don't. (Although they do have a good dem room).
There was one up until about 10 years ago, used to buy my cartridges there. They would not allow a home dem even if you took the item away at 5pm on a Saturday and brought it back for 9am on Monday morning, and deposited the entire purchase price with them in cash. I know because that was my proposal to them. They are no longer trading.
Ebay I've had a few rip offs but not for big amounts. Buying off forums is never any bother and you meet genuine enthusiasts who seem mostly concerned that the kit they are selling is going 'to a good home'. Likewise selling on forums is no bother either. There's never been a better time to try lots of different kit for very little real cost. Much easier than travelling all over to hear products in an unfamiliar dem room, and having to take your own kit along with you as well.
I'll grant you this is the enthusiast approach and requires more effort than turning up to a dealers with a credit card and saying 'Show me what you've got'. And I'm not knocking anyone who does that, if I had some money when I first got into this that is what I would have done. But I didn't so I had to seek alternative approaches. Nowadays I do it because it works for me. In an environment where you can buy used high end gear for a tenth of the new cost it sort of makes sense. There's no way I could afford the system I have if I had to pay the RRP for it.
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Post by macca on Jul 13, 2018 12:45:28 GMT
I think Rudi a good point when he mentions this hobby attracting obsessive types. I can’t speak for all box swappers, but I do tend to obsess over having something, then I get tired of it once it’s been with me for a bit. Also, if you are more interested in the gear than music, it can simply be a hobby in itself. Much like people who swap cars regularly. At least you won’t lose money with hifi. I’m less likely to box swap these days because getting it here is a chore. Plus I am very happy with what I have. But I still lust after a Leben. Will it be better than my Sonneteer? I’d bet money that it isn’t, but at least I will be able to enjoy the experience of having it. And I could be wrong Edit: I completely get the Class A thing too. I used to wonder, as do many. Having had a dozen or so example, I heard nothing consistent that I could claim to be a “class A” sound. The only consistent element was the “class A” labelling in the amps. And the point is you can try a Leben in your own home and at leisure by buying one used, having a go on it, and then selling it for what you paid. I really don't see the downside. I suppose if you only see the equipment as a means to an end it might seem strange. But it doesn't cost much if anything to do and personally I always enjoy the music regardless of what kit I'm using (unless there is some sort of technical mis-match, which happens occasionally). |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 13, 2018 13:15:55 GMT
I see no downside either. I won’t sell anything to make way for it. I can afford to wait too, so it will come at a price I can guarantee a free trial, and only stay if it is deemed worth leaving the money in it.
Pointless taking advice either because it’s either very special or nothing special according to folks online. I will be buying more for the experience of ownership than anything, so whichever opinion I come to share will be academic.
If you can possibly try something used so you don’t lose cash, and you can afford to lay out cash without selling the incumbent, it seems to be a foolproof way of gaining experience.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 14:14:42 GMT
I see no downside either. I won’t sell anything to make way for it. I can afford to wait too, so it will come at a price I can guarantee a free trial, and only stay if it is deemed worth leaving the money in it. Pointless taking advice either because it’s either very special or nothing special according to folks online. I will be buying more for the experience of ownership than anything, so whichever opinion I come to share will be academic. If you can possibly try something used so you don’t lose cash, and you can afford to lay out cash without selling the incumbent, it seems to be a foolproof way of gaining experience. This is my feeling on the matter. Great post. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 15:09:30 GMT
Most forums have a 'Flavour of the Month' product that is hyped endlessly for several weeks then entirely forgotten about (with the exception of the MDAC on pfm which seems to be Flavour of the Decade, or even Century). On AoS it seems to be a succession of 'wonder cables' that will make your jaw drop, blow your socks off and cause your wife, who doesn't normally notice these things, to comment on the inky blackness, until the next wonder cable comes along which is ten times better. I guess it's unsurprising that NVA products are talked about a lot on a forum that is now explicitly an NVA forum. Personally, I steer clear of recommending anything, having had several experiences of buying stuff on the basis of forum hype, only to be seriously underwhelmed. Finally the penny dropped that tastes, rooms and ears vary widely, and you need to hear stuff in your own home to come to any conclusions about it. At least with NVA stuff you get to try it for free. If it's my cables you're referring to, then you can try them for free on the loan scheme. You just have to ask via AoS. Why do people dislike a loan scheme that results in positive feedback? Surely anyone would benefit from a loan scheme? As it happens, I wasn't referring to anyone's cables specifically, or expressing dislike of loan schemes in general. I was caught up in the 'buzz' around Mark Grant's cables a few years back; tried them, didn't like them, sent them back. Apart from the faff of queuing up in the Post Office, it was no bother. I'm happy with the cables I currently use (mainly VdH) and am not in the market for alternatives. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 15:36:36 GMT
If it's my cables you're referring to, then you can try them for free on the loan scheme. You just have to ask via AoS. Why do people dislike a loan scheme that results in positive feedback? Surely anyone would benefit from a loan scheme? As it happens, I wasn't referring to anyone's cables specifically, or expressing dislike of loan schemes in general. I was caught up in the 'buzz' around Mark Grant's cables a few years back; tried them, didn't like them, sent them back. Apart from the faff of queuing up in the Post Office, it was no bother. I'm happy with the cables I currently use (mainly VdH) and am not in the market for alternatives. No worries, just letting you know that they are available for a loan. 😀 |
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Post by dsjr on Jul 13, 2018 16:28:52 GMT
Couple of things, I had the £5 dac long before RD tried it out. At the time it cost me £11! I initially bought a UCA202 for this purpose. RD showed me the Amazon sourced Fansound USB/SPDIF converter used into his rather excellent Sony dac first, and I was stunned how good YouTube could be in recent times. I bought one (and then another used) and settled into downloading and 'streaming' with absolutely no headaches and considerable pleasure. RD then showed me the £40 Chinese linear power supply and although I didn't have the spare dosh to buy a ready built one, I did have a home made 30VA based variable supply made into an abs project box set for 9V for my ceramic cartridge FET buffer and it was a simple matter to adjust it down to around 5.1V for the DAC. THEN this little box showed what it could really do - and it's not even connected to the PC, but the workroom DC player via SSC cables I made up - and it really *does* seem to like the SSC rather than the myriad Van Damme cables I have in the 'cable drawer.'
Jez, I like NVA amps very much, but I'm not single-mindedly devoted to 'just' them. For the prices asked, there's little to touch them in 'musical involvement' terms I believe and so far, it's been my experience that to add on protection and other circuit 'refinements' without compromising the musical performance is an expensive process - in my amateur experience..
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Post by dsjr on Jul 13, 2018 16:42:06 GMT
i think dsjr is the man i'de take notice of above anyone else i have ever met on ANY forum..imho the man's a genius with hifi.. if i ever need some advice he'll be my only port of call Very kind comment - shucks - I'm seriously humbled...
I'm getting a bit behind though, as I'm not in the mix day-to-day as I once was. I'm here because I love to talk about the gear that's been my life obsession ever since I could toddle. Still I don't know about I usually try to not get involved with.
Westie, how can you pan LS5 when you claim to quite like LS2 (H07V-R)? I've compared the two directly and the 5 does have refinements which I for one, like very much. I'll NEVER slag the LS2 off though, as it's a proper 2.5mm install cable never intended for mere audio use. It seems to have no 'side' to it and happens to work really well in this role. LS1 may major more on high frequencies though (I suspect Shane will like it with the restrained ES11's), but the LS5 is great in the bass and very tactile. I only have 3m runs of LS5 so can't use it in the main system - the conductors are too thick as well... I just can't any longer state absolutes because it's been shown that many opinions I had were of new gear, not thirty-forty year old stuff - ask Classickrock about Mission 752's - I had a definite downer on bass and tweeter performance which positioning cures (bass) and a waspy nassssty tweeter which age has significantly mellowed it appears over the sound I tried to demonstrate...
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Post by dsjr on Jul 13, 2018 16:49:42 GMT
The other claim from AVI is that the ideal speaker should aspire to headphone performance. Well that’s soundstagimg straight out the window for one thing. Give me £150 for a single source system (CD, amp, speakers) and I could easily put together a sound that would beat any headphone on the planet.......for my tastes. So the AVI model cannot be a universal truth.
Headphones image superbly, if not for your tastes which we've discussed. The image is in the head, but I have to agree that extreme left and right sounds are very odd - why my usual active preamps have a Panorama control, which progressively blend extreme L-R sounds depending on adjustment to make it a nicer experience 
Because you so strongly dislike headphone quality of reproduction for quite legitimate reasons, I suspect you don't know how seriously good some of the better headphones can be, especially when properly driven (and I'm talking a proper amp, rather than a higher voltage chipset). Sorry, I hear things on headphones that speakers in a room can't match because it gets lost in the room reflections and my preferred headphones 'only' cost a hundred quid or so and have done since the late 90's...
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Post by dsjr on Jul 13, 2018 17:10:33 GMT
Dare I mention...Harbeth User Group There, you will be castigated if you suggest that not all amplifiers sound the same... Sorry, I've been busy today so apologies for the blanket bombing just now...
The HUG is a manufacturer's forum and it's stated quite explicitly so. the existence of the place is to sell Harbeth speakers and develop the discussions around the philosophy of the designer. bearing in mind the behind the scenes consternation that in the main fear eastern markets, Harbeths are often the cheapest main system component and the amps often expensive valve confections (which all have severe response irregularities into a typical two way speaker load if Stereophile is to be believed - Prima Luna being about the worst of them all!) and so many systems having a vinyl source - the last thing I'd use as main source into Harbeths, which are laid back in the extreme unless mega-powered.
After a huge row by PM with the designer/owner eighteen months ago with regards to consistent subjective views over set-in-stone objective ones (he really could be the most patronising sanctimonious individual in past years), I royally flounced off and my posting rights in the HUG were removed (I'm now a guest but not a full member). I've been incensed by some of the chats over the intervening period but can't post an alternative view, which probably wouldn't have been accepted either.
I still feel a soggy Sugden was the last amp I'd ever use with any harbeth, let alone the inefficient P3's Paul, but I can't demonstrate it and it's two years ago for you now. the Cube 1's are a *very* different animal though, so genuinely glad you love these!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 13, 2018 18:16:55 GMT
The other claim from AVI is that the ideal speaker should aspire to headphone performance. Well that’s soundstagimg straight out the window for one thing. Give me £150 for a single source system (CD, amp, speakers) and I could easily put together a sound that would beat any headphone on the planet.......for my tastes. So the AVI model cannot be a universal truth. Headphones image superbly, if not for your tastes which we've discussed. The image is in the head, but I have to agree that extreme left and right sounds are very odd - why my usual active preamps have a Panorama control, which progressively blend extreme L-R sounds depending on adjustment to make it a nicer experience Because you so strongly dislike headphone quality of reproduction for quite legitimate reasons, I suspect you don't know how seriously good some of the better headphones can be, especially when properly driven (and I'm talking a proper amp, rather than a higher voltage chipset). Sorry, I hear things on headphones that speakers in a room can't match because it gets lost in the room reflections and my preferred headphones 'only' cost a hundred quid or so and have done since the late 90's...
Now that IS interesting. You can never really escape your own subjectivity, so I can have no idea what you hear, but I get no image whatsoever from headphones. I can’t even conceive of how an image could present itself in my head. I assume I’m not wired in such a way. I’ve tried a few different headphones that are expensive. I’ve owned RS2e (£560) and I heard three different phones at escalating prices up to £1200. They were all totally uselesss to me and beaten by any pair of speakers I’ve owned or heard. Even car boot buys for under a tenner. And I’ve used a decent headphone amp that Shane rates as amongst the best he’s used, so no issues there. I also,listened to my mates top of the range Stax: Also useless. I therefore doubt there is a headphone out there I’d hear as better than speakers, irrespective of price. The whole concept of sound delivered straight into my ears just has no element of fidelity whatsoever to it for me, let alone high fidelity. I think you may perhaps be falling into the trap of assuming that what you hear is in some way universal. It’s not. And neither is the idea that headphone sound is what we should all aspire to. If headphone listening is false to me, then it cannot by definition be a universal truth. I have no problem with the idea that it can work for some people. I have no issue with it being superior for some either. I do have a problem with being told it IS superior and anyone who disagrees is wrong. That was my point with AVI. I seriously doubt all the hangers on at the AVI forum believe headphone listening is the zenith of high fidelity either. More like they are simply agreeing with the head guru there for other reasons such as fitting in, peer status etc. Let’s face it, if they all think headphone listening is the pinnacle of musical exper8nce, what are they doing buying active speakers? Just get some cans and be done with it As for the bollocks about some budget Yammy amp being as good as anything else, it’s laughable. Yet all the nodding dogs are there to agree again. I wonder how good it is with headphones........ |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 13, 2018 18:25:51 GMT
Dare I mention...Harbeth User Group There, you will be castigated if you suggest that not all amplifiers sound the same... Sorry, I've been busy today so apologies for the blanket bombing just now... The HUG is a manufacturer's forum and it's stated quite explicitly so. the existence of the place is to sell Harbeth speakers and develop the discussions around the philosophy of the designer. bearing in mind the behind the scenes consternation that in the main fear eastern markets, Harbeths are often the cheapest main system component and the amps often expensive valve confections (which all have severe response irregularities into a typical two way speaker load if Stereophile is to be believed - Prima Luna being about the worst of them all!) and so many systems having a vinyl source - the last thing I'd use as main source into Harbeths, which are laid back in the extreme unless mega-powered.
After a huge row by PM with the designer/owner eighteen months ago with regards to consistent subjective views over set-in-stone objective ones (he really could be the most patronising sanctimonious individual in past years), I royally flounced off and my posting rights in the HUG were removed (I'm now a guest but not a full member). I've been incensed by some of the chats over the intervening period but can't post an alternative view, which probably wouldn't have been accepted either. I still feel a soggy Sugden was the last amp I'd ever use with any harbeth, let alone the inefficient P3's Paul, but I can't demonstrate it and it's two years ago for you now. the Cube 1's are a *very* different animal though, so genuinely glad you love these!
Wow I can’t believe someone would ban you for disagreeing with their totalitarian stance. I’m glad you quoted SavvyPaul though because I misread his post first time. I thought he said you’d be “castrated”! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 18:34:55 GMT
You enjoy your Firebottle amps, and you buy a Monachy amp just to try. Why not keep enjoying your Firebottle, don't fill you head with doubts/ifs and buts, just enjoy your music. When the time comes to upgrade get dems of appropriate equipment. Trying different kit is part of the hobby for me, Antonio. I'm enjoying the Monos right now, can the Monarchy Audio better them?  I genuinely don't know. see, all that suspense and excitement!!! It's great fun. The other day, I made 5 pairs of loading plugs and listened to the difference between them. Boring for some, fun for me. There's lots of ways to enjoy this hobby. Yesterday I bought a couple of LPs I've had my eye on and when they arrive I'll enjoy that just as much as chopping and changing gear. |
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Post by dsjr on Jul 13, 2018 18:36:19 GMT
Headphone listening...
If you hear a live performer, then the original sound is universal to me, but maybe I'm missing the point? A mono sound on headphones should place this exactly in the middle of your head, rock solid! When my left ear was continually partly blocked by swelling/infection, the top went to the right and midrange to the side and for a while I thought my HiFi listening days were well and truly over - I still lack some sensitivity to quiet high frequencies compared to son and wife, but when they're not around even the BC2's go plenty loud enough - and these aren't *loud* speakers in anyone's imagination  If you listen to mono on headphones and don't get the image in the middle of your head, may I suggest your ears may be different to each other? Look, I love to FEEL my music, preferably in the stomach pushing me backwards on good well recorded music - one reason I adore GOOD big speakers, but I can't have big speakers here and can't even listen much over speakers in general. For 'this' listener, the HD25SP's sparkle nicely for my ears, are unburstable, a doddle for the 'headphone amps' I have here to drive (a Crown D-60 and a custom NVA based dual-mono AP20 spec amp) and I use them a hell of a lot when not working... My beef with Ashley on this is that he used HD800's as a reference. it seems many exalted headphones (even the top Grado's I discovered), tend to bland out the sound the further up the range you go - removing resonances but removing part of the music in the process possibly... I know what he's getting at, but the ADM actives, certainly up to the very latest ones, tended to major on midrange projection in the manner of the Control Ones or Yamaha NS10's (not as severe as NS10's, but mid forward with 'gentle' top and little to no deep bass to give 'size' to the sound in-room). Long story, but another case of the best speaker in the world getting hugely better with each evolutionary change I'm sure the £3k DM30's are fine though, but I'm never going to get to hear these to confirm.
At the other end, i really need to have some JBL LSR305's here - fully active, good spec and £250pr. Only one measurement anomaly which its predecessor had and in the company of domestic equivalents, probably inaudible most of the time - read the noaudiophile review!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 13, 2018 18:37:58 GMT
i think dsjr is the man i'de take notice of above anyone else i have ever met on ANY forum..imho the man's a genius with hifi.. if i ever need some advice he'll be my only port of call Very kind comment - shucks - I'm seriously humbled... I'm getting a bit behind though, as I'm not in the mix day-to-day as I once was. I'm here because I love to talk about the gear that's been my life obsession ever since I could toddle. Still I don't know about I usually try to not get involved with. Westie, how can you pan LS5 when you claim to quite like LS2 (H07V-R)? I've compared the two directly and the 5 does have refinements which I for one, like very much. I'll NEVER slag the LS2 off though, as it's a proper 2.5mm install cable never intended for mere audio use. It seems to have no 'side' to it and happens to work really well in this role. LS1 may major more on high frequencies though (I suspect Shane will like it with the restrained ES11's), but the LS5 is great in the bass and very tactile. I only have 3m runs of LS5 so can't use it in the main system - the conductors are too thick as well... I just can't any longer state absolutes because it's been shown that many opinions I had were of new gear, not thirty-forty year old stuff - ask Classickrock about Mission 752's - I had a definite downer on bass and tweeter performance which positioning cures (bass) and a waspy nassssty tweeter which age has significantly mellowed it appears over the sound I tried to demonstrate...
It is great to talk about the gear! It fascinates me and it always has. I’ll try to explain what I can’t get away with when it comes to LS1,3 and 5. I’ve done so before, because it’s always had the same effect since I first tried it many years ago. I only kept trying because I figured it couldn’t be so awful in every scenario when others liked it. Sadly it is consistently dire to me. It has had the biggest deleterious effect on a system of any cable or component I’ve ever tried. Any sense of image or presence is killed stone dead for me. All air and space is sucked away down the plughole using this base cable. I hear sound coming from two speakers and nowhere else. What I hear is turgid and leaden. Also strained. It’s almost as bad as having both ears blocked, it sounds like you’ve used some incredibly “wrong” cable that is doing something weird to your amp. I make no claims of it being wrong for anyone else but for me it is the worst hifi purchase I have ever made and the worst soudning hifi product I have ever come across. More of the same base cable just means more wrongness for me. Yes I really do hate it that much. I haven’t got a bad word to say about LS2. It’s a bargain and it beats the spaced conductor cables others charge more for. Easily beaten by my DIY cable though. LS6 has some great qualities too, but over time it seriously grated on me. I’m dead sure TSCS, which is made up entirely of the cable that lifts LS6 so far above the others, will be very good too. I just cannot abide the base cable in LS1,3 and 5 in any measure, |
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 13, 2018 18:53:05 GMT
I don’t think I have any opportunity to try mono and I have ditched the headphones and amp, but if I get a chance at any point I will try it, I think “space” is something we are discovering that we hear so differently, it probably explains a lot about why we differ so much on some things yet not on all. It’s like it’s the first thing I need for it all to make sense. Take the space away and it all falls flat. Probably also explains my love of upward firing, semi omni and full omni speakers. To nick the title from a good sci finseries, I
They give you “Psace Above And Beyond”.
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Post by dsjr on Jul 13, 2018 18:59:00 GMT
I need air, atmosphere and spatial effects in my music reproduction. The big ATC's (old version now) only did this when turned up, but the Spendors do this with ease, but it changes with the recording though - it's not there all the time.. Listening on headphones reproduces this dramatically I think. My version of 'air and space' was fulfilled on PC streaming when I bought and started using the twenty quid USB/SPDIF thingy and I thought it rather superior to the supposedly perfect digita loutput on my M-Audio Audiophile sound card which is still in the office PC... Maybe you're talking about a different kind of 'space,' I don't know, sorry. P.S. I still don't get serial box swappers like old sparring partner Jerry and Shane for example, but then, I can't bloody talk as I was swapping boxes daily in dems and miss that side dreadfully now |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 13, 2018 19:06:12 GMT
Maybe us box swappers are just wannabe hifi shop people You made a good point about space too. Maybe we “think”we are talking about the same thing when we actually aren’t. The overriding thing I cannot abide about LS1,3 and 5 is the effect it has on what i perceive as space. Fascinating stuff. Wouldn’t it be good if we could just swap ears for 5 minutes? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 23:58:43 GMT
Box Swapping - The Grass is always Greener on the other side. !!!
🖖
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Post by antonio on Jul 14, 2018 5:08:25 GMT
You enjoy your Firebottle amps, and you buy a Monachy amp just to try. Why not keep enjoying your Firebottle, don't fill you head with doubts/ifs and buts, just enjoy your music. When the time comes to upgrade get dems of appropriate equipment. Trying different kit is part of the hobby for me, Antonio. I'm enjoying the Monos right now, can the Monarchy Audio better them? I genuinely don't know. see, all that suspense and excitement!!! It's great fun. The other day, I made 5 pairs of loading plugs and listened to the difference between them. Boring for some, fun for me. There's lots of ways to enjoy this hobby. Yesterday I bought a couple of LPs I've had my eye on and when they arrive I'll enjoy that just as much as chopping and changing gear. Pleased you didn't take my post too seriously Keep enjoying. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 7:15:20 GMT
Box Swapping - The Grass is always Greener on the other side. !!! 🖖 It's not!! And that's the point. It's good to know where the equipment lies in terms of preference. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 10:13:48 GMT
Can't you just close your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears, and go La, la la, la la la. It would work out cheeper in the long run.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 12:35:06 GMT
Can't you just close your eyes, stick your fingers in your ears, and go La, la la, la la la. It would work out cheeper in the long run. Lol, I'll try it |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 12:41:19 GMT
Box Swapping - The Grass is always Greener on the other side. !!! 🖖 so they say i have yet to discover that with hifi..always dissapointed with almost everything i brought home.. i always bought used in my later box swapping years. that way u loose very little cash |
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Post by dsjr on Jul 14, 2018 13:06:51 GMT
Box Swapping - The Grass is always Greener on the other side. !!! 🖖 It's not!! And that's the point. It's good to know where the equipment lies in terms of preference. Yeah, but when you're swapping box after box of tat that nobody else wants, it's rarely when something really decent comes around - When it does, THEN you realise |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 13:16:18 GMT
It's not!! And that's the point. It's good to know where the equipment lies in terms of preference. Yeah, but when you're swapping box after box of tat that nobody else wants, it's rarely when something really decent comes around - When it does, THEN you realise Whenever you buy second hand, it's it's usually because they don't want or need it anymore. It's curiosity for me .simple as that . |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 15:25:10 GMT
Just because an item is sold on does not mean it's "tat that nobody wants". People move all sorts of things on for various reasons, but it doesn't mean it's tat or unwanted. Imagine the housing market if everyone thought that? Would we all be in Barratt timber framed homes?
1. People sell stuff for a multitude of reasons: Upgrading, a wish to try something new, system mismatch, downsizing, boredom, you name it.
2. If "nobody" wanted it, there wouldn't be any market value.
3. Everything on the used market was once sold on the new market. Often demonstrated and chosen. It's not logical to attach any other baggage to it because it's now up for sale again. Show me a single product that has sold in decent numbers yet never appeared for sale used. Unless you can, then by definition it is all "tat that nobody wants".
It seems like an emotional response towards box swappers is colouring the attitude towards the products. The two are not really linked.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 16:09:17 GMT
I agree audionut...People just move on, for a multitude of various reasons.
As touched upon earlier, it wouldn't be much of a hifi community if everyone stuck with their first system.
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I genuinely don't know. see, all that suspense and excitement!!! It's great fun. 