Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 14, 2020 21:25:56 GMT
Glad you've found something to try.
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2020 22:52:36 GMT
Well it's a shot in the dark really. Angus had a Micro Seiki 505 and an Audio Technica AT 1100 that we discussed but to be fair the Rega I have has had a Cardas ofc copper litz internal rewire, VDH tags, a silver and copper ofc external rewire, the arm has been foam filled and chrome polished and has a Tungsten counterweight all done by Audio Origami so although it's not an arm to set the world on fire I doubt I'll better it by much with the sums I'm talking about.
The Hadcock on the other hand has cost very little and it will offer something different and can be sold on without loss if it doesn't suit.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 14, 2020 23:03:15 GMT
If you can try it and not lose out...why not!
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2020 22:52:06 GMT
I got an aluminium armboard on order from Sound Supports today which costs a very reasonable £45. There's some great resources on line regarding the arm to help with the set up so it's just a case of diving in I'm actually looking for a cheap little deck to take over to Spain after all of this crazy virus stuff has been gotten under control and so once I've tested it out on my Technics and decided if it's a direction I'd like to go down with a better Hadcock or Unipivot then I might build a nice little budget deck around the Hadcock.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2020 18:14:47 GMT
Here are a few pictures of the Hadcock 228 I've just bought I don't know much about these arms but the single centred counterweight, two bias weights, detachable headshell and finger lift I think date it to the mid 80's but I'll leave it to one of you analogue experts to confirm for me. I
IMG_1512 by
IMG_1510 by [/a] IMG_1514 by IMG_1515 by T
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 16, 2020 19:34:44 GMT
looks in nice condition.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2020 20:33:47 GMT
Yes it's in pretty good condition for something that's 30-35 years old and also quite delicate. Any ideas on the model?
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2020 21:10:06 GMT
Yes it's in pretty good condition for something that's 30-35 years old and also quite delicate. Any ideas on the model? The arm used to vary a bit. But it looks pretty much like a Super D Export, which dated from the mid 70s. Back then, it used to cost £50. I know it's a more consistent item now, but that's why I still find it hard to see it as £1000+ arm. The base version used to cost £750 when I looked some years ago and the top version was around £1200. They will have gone up since then. I've always liked it. Got my first on a Thorens 160 with Ortofon VMS 20E secondhand for £125 in the late 70s. It was on par with the Formula IV unipivot, which used to cost the same. I only saw your first photo initially. Didn't see the outrigger on the lift side. Never seen that before. Like I said it did vary a bit. Does the arm tube lift off? Some didn't have the red plug and socket. Might be a Super E Export. Just looked. The base version is £775 and the top model is £1500.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2020 22:58:49 GMT
Yes it's in pretty good condition for something that's 30-35 years old and also quite delicate. Any ideas on the model? The arm used to vary a bit. But it looks pretty much like a Super D Export, which dated from the mid 70s. Back then, it used to cost £50. I know it's a more consistent item now, but that's why I still find it hard to see it as £1000+ arm. The base version used to cost £750 when I looked some years ago and the top version was around £1200. They will have gone up since then. I've always liked it. Got my first on a Thorens 160 with Ortofon VMS 20E secondhand for £125 in the late 70s. It was on par with the Formula IV unipivot, which used to cost the same. I only saw your first photo initially. Didn't see the outrigger on the lift side. Never seen that before. Like I said it did vary a bit. Does the arm tube lift off? Some didn't have the red plug and socket. Might be a Super E Export. Just looked. The base version is £775 and the top model is £1500. Hi, When you say does the arm tube lift off do you mean is it detachable if so then yes as does the headshell. Once I get it fixed down on to a deck I will take some more photographs.
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Post by Deleted on May 16, 2020 23:24:14 GMT
The arm used to vary a bit. But it looks pretty much like a Super D Export, which dated from the mid 70s. Back then, it used to cost £50. I know it's a more consistent item now, but that's why I still find it hard to see it as £1000+ arm. The base version used to cost £750 when I looked some years ago and the top version was around £1200. They will have gone up since then. I've always liked it. Got my first on a Thorens 160 with Ortofon VMS 20E secondhand for £125 in the late 70s. It was on par with the Formula IV unipivot, which used to cost the same. I only saw your first photo initially. Didn't see the outrigger on the lift side. Never seen that before. Like I said it did vary a bit. Does the arm tube lift off? Some didn't have the red plug and socket. Might be a Super E Export. Just looked. The base version is £775 and the top model is £1500. Hi, When you say does the arm tube lift off do you mean is it detachable if so then yes as does the headshell. Once I get it fixed down on to a deck I will take some more photographs. When the red plug & socket were fitted, the whole top arm assembly could be removed, with it being a unipivot. You could then buy another if you wanted to use more than one cartridge and it was an easy change over. Some don't like it as it can be a bit of a faff and can at times drift out of set up. I never found it that much of a problem.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 11:25:24 GMT
Hi, When you say does the arm tube lift off do you mean is it detachable if so then yes as does the headshell. Once I get it fixed down on to a deck I will take some more photographs. When the red plug & socket were fitted, the whole top arm assembly could be removed, with it being a unipivot. You could then buy another if you wanted to use more than one cartridge and it was an easy change over. Some don't like it as it can be a bit of a faff and can at times drift out of set up. I never found it that much of a problem. Yes I've just checked and yes it does lift off in the way you describe.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 12:20:48 GMT
When the red plug & socket were fitted, the whole top arm assembly could be removed, with it being a unipivot. You could then buy another if you wanted to use more than one cartridge and it was an easy change over. Some don't like it as it can be a bit of a faff and can at times drift out of set up. I never found it that much of a problem. Yes I've just checked and yes it does lift off in the way you describe. 40+ years ago it was a relatively cheap option. Hardly the case now. Just the headshell, armtube & wiring costs £200 now, I think.
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Post by antonio on May 17, 2020 12:40:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 13:48:39 GMT
Yes I saw that but unfortunately a bit much for me at the moment looks a lovely arm though. Once I've tried the Hadcock I'll hopefully know if a unipivot is for me if it is I'll go up the food chain a bit and put this Hadcock on a budget deck I'm building for a second system maybe I'll put it on a Rega Planar 2. If the unipivot doesn't suit the Technics then it's back to the drawing board luckily the Audio Origami Rega RB300 I currently have is a very easy arm to listen to and It may even be I eventually stick with it. It's all a learning curve that we have to go through for me it's a part of the hobby. Two years ago I had a Naim 282/Supercap/300 that frustrated the life out of me it sounded excellent at medium levels but average at low or loud levels and at very loud levels it fell apart. I was told upgrade to a 252 you already have a Supercap, it's your speakers, it's your room so I sold the lot and started afresh with a lowly Nad c372 all I kept where the speakers I sold the LP12 too and bought this Techy and now two years on I have a BTE passive/Quad Elite QSP that sounds great at low and medium level and fantastic played very loud with the same speakers in the same room and it cost less than just the Supercap.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 13:57:22 GMT
Yes I've just checked and yes it does lift off in the way you describe. 40+ years ago it was a relatively cheap option. Hardly the case now. Just the headshell, armtube & wiring costs £200 now, I think. Yes things have gone a bit crazy in our hobby of late from the sublime to the ridiculous, records I used to buy for a couple of pounds in my local 2nd hand or Charity shop are now £15-£20 on Discogs and as you say arms that used to give the less well off a taste of hi fidelity are now a £1,000.
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Post by antonio on May 17, 2020 14:23:33 GMT
I hope the Hadcock works out for you, my link to the Audiomods was just out of interest. I see it is now sold. You don't have to tell me about Naim amps, I had 52/Scap with 135s, they simply ran out of steam driving Obelisks, although the 135's sounded great with my Epos ES14's.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2020 18:29:43 GMT
I hope the Hadcock works out for you, my link to the Audiomods was just out of interest. I see it is now sold. You don't have to tell me about Naim amps, I had 52/Scap with 135s, they simply ran out of steam driving Obelisks, although the 135's sounded great with my Epos ES14's. Snap I had a CB 250 with Epos ES14's sounded great not huge amount of bass but terrific sound all the same.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 10:16:07 GMT
That Hadcock is the base Export model I think natara and appears to be missing one of the TWO counterweights at the back that it should come with.
The headshell and overhang/azimuth is adjustable by means of a grubscrew in the headshell.
The arm can be lifted off by unplugging the red connector. These are the weak point in the design and can tarnish leading to a few issues so benefit from a little switch cleaner. They are also quite fragile and expensive to replace. If you keep the arm you're really better off rewiring from headshell to output than replacing the connector if that's ever needed.
You won't know the condition and no one can comment on the condition until you remove the arm and check the bearing surface. You should have a conical ruby bearing mount which goes into a little group of ball-bearings inside the arm wand housing. Check the bearings for any dust build up (can benefit sometimes from a clean) and these were I think originally damped. New bearings are £55 plus fitting available from British Audio Products. The ruby bearing surface should be smooth and not ridged. If it is ridged then it's a write-off and needs replacing...a specialist job.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 17:23:10 GMT
That Hadcock is the base Export model I think natara and appears to be missing one of the TWO counterweights at the back that it should come with. The headshell and overhang/azimuth is adjustable by means of a grubscrew in the headshell. The arm can be lifted off by unplugging the red connector. These are the weak point in the design and can tarnish leading to a few issues so benefit from a little switch cleaner. They are also quite fragile and expensive to replace. If you keep the arm you're really better off rewiring from headshell to output than replacing the connector if that's ever needed. You won't know the condition and no one can comment on the condition until you remove the arm and check the bearing surface. You should have a conical ruby bearing mount which goes into a little group of ball-bearings inside the arm wand housing. Check the bearings for any dust build up (can benefit sometimes from a clean) and these were I think originally damped. New bearings are £55 plus fitting available from British Audio Products. The ruby bearing surface should be smooth and not ridged. If it is ridged then it's a write-off and needs replacing...a specialist job. Thanks for the great information. I have noticed the two counterweights on the 228 but there is a photograph on vinyl engine and I've seen one other photograph of a 228 with a single counterweight I have though contacted Stamford Audio from who I bought the arm for clarification.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 17:51:38 GMT
I've just had an email back from Gordon at Stamford and he said that all the time he has owned it , it only ever had one weight.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 18:05:38 GMT
Must be an earlier model then or else it was missing when he had it? All later 228's used two, the same as the 242 models. It's no big deal but does make finer adjustments a lot easier.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 20:56:15 GMT
Having ferreted about, yours is a Super E Type, from the 70s, as I said it might be: www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/122593-hadcock-gh228-super-tonearm/Counterweight. Originally, and for most of the time, there was the main section plus 2 rings to cater for cartridges of varying weights. The main counterweight had an eliptoid fitting. Yours differs in having a central fitting. It still came with the 2 rings as you can see from the box in the photos. Later versions came with a bigger disc-like eliptoid counterweight and a smaller disc with a central fitting. Right now there's the missing rings on eBay for £25 + £3.50 post: ebay.co.uk/itm/293581070013Plug & Socket. Can't say I ever had any problems with the 3 arms I had. The 4th one I got didn't have the plug & socket so I fitted them, partly out of nostalgia and partly out of being purely practical. Yes, there's 2 additional contacts per channel, but it does add convenience with little negative effect. The Mission 774 used the exact same plug & socket and again I never had any issues with them with the 3 I had. It's easy enough to rewire. I never bothered. For the armtube section I'd use solid silver with silk covering and lightly twist into 2 pairs. You could try filling the tube with expanding foam to dampen it. Never actually tried this myself. You could also replace the aluminum tube with a section of stainless steel for greater regidity. Originally, the price difference was just £4. It's more than that now. You could try others such as titanium or carbon fiber. Titanium's pretty cheap. Oh, if the cartridge connectors are original - they will be silver and not gold. Clean them and don't change them. I tried changing to gold connectors with the first one I had and there was a slight loss of high frequency detail, so I put the original silver connectors back on. There's a review from 1981. It was the best I could manage. It's readable. And it won't have a ruby bearing spindle; it will be stainless steel. Sorry. The review becomes somewhat less than readable when uploaded.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 21:45:40 GMT
Thanks again brucewayne excellent investigative work once more and it's good to know that I can get the other rings if needed. I'll just see how this plays out though I'm still waiting for Sound Supports to send me an invoice for one of their armboards. If I enjoy it I ONCE IT'S SET UP I may well look into a rewire for sure but will have to see if a kindly soul will undertake the work for me as I'm not built for the very fiddly business of soldering cartridge pins etc.
Can I ask where you found the review.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 22:16:48 GMT
The review is in Hi Fi Choice Turntables And Tonearms 1981. Sorry it wouldn't upload to read better.
I'd rewire it. Wouldn't cost anything other than postage.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 22:24:37 GMT
I wouldn't use solid fine silver wire at all unless you want the soldered junctions to corrode and break. In fact I can't think of a worse suggestion. Fine litz ofc copper multi-strand is something of a standard (for good reason) or for those who MUST have silver (which offers as many disadvantages as the very slight gain in conductivity which doesn't matter at all in a low impedance to high impedance circuit) use litz multistrand. Solid? no way. mechanically totally unsuitable.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 23:08:49 GMT
Well, naturally, solid silver Litz was what I was thinking.
"Solid-Silver" - as opposed to "Silver- Plated".
Solid-Silver Litz is good enough for others to use!
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 23:09:02 GMT
The review is in Hi Fi Choice Turntables And Tonearms 1981. Sorry it wouldn't upload to read better. I'd rewire it. Wouldn't cost anything other than postage. That's very generous and I may well take you up on that.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 19, 2020 23:16:43 GMT
I used solid Silver when I rewired my Mission 774. I was far less experienced then and hadnt realised that with it being a solid silver wire, it may cause resistance when travelling across the LP
First time I used it, I put the stylus over the LP and it sprung back about 1" towards the arm rest.
I didnt click straight away and played a few tracks. As it go to the inner groove, distortion overtook the sound.
I only realised when I put on my spare arm tube, that i had also rewired with KAB Superflex for a Silver Vs Copper comparison, and it dawned on me.
I've never used solid silver for an arm wire since.
Not saying you will have the same issue here, as BW sounds confident of a top job and for the price, it wont be the end of the world if it doesn't work out. Just saying that the Mission 774 and your Hadcock are quite similar in how the work and I felt it was a pertinent experience to share
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2020 0:14:25 GMT
P.S.
If you want to call 3 insulated strands of "solid silver" 0.05mm in diameter Litz - which technically it is - then Audio Note produce it, specifically for tonearm use. Just look in HiFi Collective.
You might also like to look on eBay for a Hadcock 228 Silver. That's described as being wired with Carads silver wire. I presume it's Litz - but I could be wrong. It has been known.
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2020 5:55:58 GMT
The review is in Hi Fi Choice Turntables And Tonearms 1981. Sorry it wouldn't upload to read better. I'd rewire it. Wouldn't cost anything other than postage. That's very generous and I may well take you up on that. Sorry. I did mean it would only cost postage - and the cost of wire, whatever that might be. Something else I wasn't clear about.
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