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Post by macca on Jun 25, 2018 15:48:57 GMT
The TAD speakers were quite impressive, good scale for the size of them. I know a lot of serious design has gone into them too.
Lampizator I had never heard before and with a few exceptions valves are not my thing. Prior to Saturday I wouldn't have gone out of my way to listen to their kit. That would have been a mistake. One of the very few high end brands I have experienced where you can actually hear that you are getting something special for the money.
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Post by dsjr on Jun 25, 2018 18:08:39 GMT
I am afraid I completely disagree... The difference the cables made was more than a black (or whatever colour) box made in my system. The opened up the sound in a way which is indescribable and I value the purchase as one of my best. Paul, I'm going to say it but you've been sold a pup if a few bits of wire make such a huge difference and please make sure brainwashing has nothing to do with it (pre-conceived bias and so on). i remember your pal Mike replacing his Sh#t isobariks with what I regarded as another Sh#t speaker, not liking what he heard and Tony going round with a box full of sometimes costly add-ons to make his Sh#t stereo sound half decent. Mike fell for it and then had doubts I remember reading. You're so deeply into it at the moment you won't see it, but I've been there years ago, ended up with a spectacular system used by professionals and sounding great with RS Components mic cables for interconnects (standard XLR plugs and admittedly Neutrik Pro RCA plugs at £15 a pair) and home made mains cables to boot, albeit with MK plugs, soldered IEC plugs and snap-on ferrites on them - Think about it - please....
Dealers selling so-called Top End, serve to make shedloads of dosh from unsuspecting punters (and this is me as an ex-dealer talking, not Richard Dunn, who still regards me as such sometimes!). Clients go in, buy a new black or silver box and then expect to have to pay an arm and leg for the new fangled foo wires to connect it up with and walk away happy they've done the right thing. I mean, look at Tellurium Q speaker cables - it's all in massively increased inductance (Colin admitted it) acting as a hf filter and I suspect the Transparent Audio cables are the same with added filters in those fancy-foo boxes. Of course the Transparent Magnum Opus cables and mains conditioners can't have plastic moulded or even wooden boxes, so they mould a carbon fibre organic shape instead - oooh - which looks really posh..
You won't believe me, but I'm pretty sure I know what's happened. Cables really *shouldn't* make much of a difference, and if they do, there's something wrong with the system, possibly at frequencies beyond human hearing interferring with the music lower down we *can* hear... I've seen and heard it so many times I'm afraid, sorry and came out the far side after decades believing some of this Sh#t.
The only expensive interconnect I'd be reluctant to sell on is the NVA TIS which I saw being made (effin fussy to join and solder up, but I don't make cables for a living). It does good things to the music going through it (even MartinT liked it I recall) and it's cheaper than Coherent cables too I believe. I'd be saddened if it had to go but can't afford any more, so if I had the bug,changing my SSC's to SSP's would come close enough for me - and the difference ain't that huge ffs... For the non-NVA gear, the Klotz MC5000 mic cables as used by sound professionals are amazingly good, the slight ripeness I notice from newly made up disappears after a few week's use and they're utterly transparent to the signal going through them.
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Post by pauld on Jun 25, 2018 18:29:22 GMT
I respect you have an opinion, however it is very wrong in my view. Mike's system is probably the most balanced and one of the best systems I have ever had the pleasure of hearing. His Bricks sounded ok, but weren't to my taste. The more he has improved his system, the better it has sounded. I find it rich that anyone would say his system sounds Sh#t and quite disrespectful and rude without at least having heard it before you made such a bold claim. I'd accept it if you had heard it and decided it wasn't to your taste, but to say it is Sh#t is a moronic statement of the highest order!
The fact that TQ cables have limitations, I am not surprised about. Have you ever heard any Coherent cables in the context of one of your systems?
There are many different cables out there that do cost a small fortune, and do sound utter tosh, I have tried many from Nordost to Chord to Naim to, you name it and they have never made anywhere near the level of difference that the Coherent cables have made. The Naim and Chord costing a lot more than the Coherent I might add.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 25, 2018 18:29:33 GMT
Who says Isobariks are Sh#t though? I love them  OK they are poor at some things but they can be really great in other areas. If something brings you masses of enjoyment than to me it can’t be intrinsically bad. Whenever people discuss cables, there’s always a tendency to believe their own experiences are somewhat universal. The fact people disagree so vehemently seems to suggest they aren’t Not wanting to fall into the same trap myself, I will only go so far as to say that I have had successes in changing cables which have not held up to subsequent changes of gear. I have found it beneficial to keep a few different ones, because a change of system could easily reverse previous preferences. |
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Post by macca on Jun 25, 2018 18:42:58 GMT
I agree with Dave. Decades spent accepting without question that there were better cables; a hierarchy you could move up and experience definite benefits, only limit was how much you could spend.
Now I realise the differences are small at best. I tested 9 sets of interconnects in my system trying to figure out which worked the best. Sighted tests, and I heard pretty big differences and was able to rank the cables from best to worst with ease, or so I thought. The best was NVA super sound cord and the worst was some Mark Grant belden cables, second worst were the standard freebee leads, I think some Audioquest interconnects were second best. So I put the NVA cables in, chucked the rest back in the bag.
About a week later I'm reading on a forum some bloke saying there is no difference in the sound of interconnects or any cables, all in the mind. I was scoffing at this as my test had shown that there was a huge gulf between the Belden interconnects (mushy, closed in, soft) and the NVA (open, clean, natural). I had music on so I switched off and swapped the Belden in, just to prove to myself that I was right in thinking this bloke was talking bollocks, a deaf man can hear the difference.
Fired up the system and …. there was just no difference. It was exactly the same sound I had just been enjoying. I strained to listen for a difference, I really did, but it just was not there. Eventually I managed to convince myself that the Belden did sound a little more shut in than the NVA. Enough to warrant the effort of swapping them back out. But this was all a shock because my memory of the two cables had been that they were miles apart in performance and I was confident in that.
Seriously, if someone had sneaked into the house and done the swap I would never have known until I went round the back of the rack for some reason. Psychology is a big factor in what we hear.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 25, 2018 18:50:40 GMT
Fair play to Martin for being so honest about this. Often people don’t want to lose face.
I’ve had times where a cable or component has been re-introduced later and it’s been either markedly better or worse than previous times. Often a hierarchy has been Reversed. Is it psychologocal, or is it synergy? I really don’t know, but I’m also honest enough to talk about it. Differences and preferences seem very real at the time but then later they can have you scratching your head and doubting your memory.
Oh and I do agree that this perception of cable hierarchy linked to price is largely erroneous. That doesn’t mean all expensive cables are no better than cheaper ones. It just means you can’t automatically assume there’s a relationship between price and performance.
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Post by pauld on Jun 25, 2018 19:09:51 GMT
I tried the Coherent interconnect first. I plugged it in and heard an immediate difference. I unplugged and put in my TQ and the sound was evidently lacking.
Since I have tried the same test with the Exposure speaker cable vs. the Coherent and again, either way there was a difference, positive towards the Coherent and negative towards the Exposure.
The biggest difference was certainly the speaker cable, but the interconnect was pretty good too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2018 19:15:27 GMT
I use SoundCords in my headphone system. Very decent for the money. Might climb up to SSC later in the year.
S.
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Post by dsjr on Jun 25, 2018 19:21:21 GMT
The speakers Mike replaced his 'Briks with raised eyebrows at the time and we laughed when he needed loadsof add-ons to make them better. proper speakers work first time in a wide range of rooms - but then, I'm looking at it from a pro perspective where a good monitor shouldn't have undue character. Most domestic speakers are designed to have a 'personality' from the outset and this is where part of the matching gear and cables comes in, tryingto fine tiune something good out of less good parts. Go hear a live jazz group and then some *proper* large ATC's playing at pretty realistic levels. It may alter perceptions as it did mine. the JBL 4367's I heard brought it all back last Autumn, although I'd have put them on stands. No bling, no modern active crossover, just a properly designed tweeter waveguide working right down cleanly and a decent 15" bass-mid carefully matched to it in a way the BBC forgot about in the 60's in their quest for bextrene perfection!
Paul, you won't believe or accept what I'ms aying and I get this, but I've been there at the shop-floor end and seen dealers making a living out of it - ever more add-ons bring in ever more money. KJ are doing it as I type and the clients come back for evermore, so I'm not wrong. I'llget out of this, but PLEASE don't be lind to dealer's charms, 'cos this sought after sonic nirvana doesn't exist in the domestic audio arena and leads to thousands being spent for little more than psychological gain - and the feeling you're in a selct 'club' that us tossers outside aren't allowe dinto unless we spend the thousands of quid necessay to join...
Andrew - Isobariks are not good speakers - end of - and I've owned three sets of the effers in passive form! No deep bass unless augmented by a fruitbox in full 'fruit,' or a Naim amp with low damping factor. Severely coloured boxy sounding mids which became squeakier as the 80's went on until the re-design and highs that are either chrome plated (Scan tweeters) or tinny saw blades (Hiquphon tweeter). The active ones by and large were on a different plane of existence but please don't defend the passive ones of any era, as they seriously were severely compromised and coloured most of the time. The ONLY time a passive pair really did work draw-droppingly well was with a QMI Gain-Cell driving them (800WPC into two ohms) and these had dynamics you'd never imagine from Naim 135's...
Welcome back Paul. I'd prefer you to stay here so I'll back off I think. I can't dem what I'm saying either, so it's just words until/unless I can prove it to you!
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Post by dsjr on Jun 25, 2018 19:26:54 GMT
P.S. we know that three of the four NVA interconnects are based on RG316U wire. First, the 316U isn't cheap compared to many others used around and about commercially. Doubling up to SSC is doable for many good solderers (even me) but quadding it in SSPml2 is a pain I can't deal with. It's not easy to make up and in my case I don't have the outer braided sheath either. Loads of fiddly crap involved in making them and i don't think the prices are too high. There's a third party sitting next to himself making them up now and he's a busy bee from what I can see (I don't know whom he os and RD won't tell me).
The NVA speaker wires are complex and not something I'd currently dare to make up. I like the LS5 over mid price commercial equivalents but the next step is a large one involving fancier internals I gather and I've never tried them.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2018 19:29:02 GMT
Could be a monkey making them!
S.
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Post by dsjr on Jun 25, 2018 19:51:54 GMT
That's insulting the chap who does make them Shane. They look nicely finished and terminated to me and apart from cables he's working on, his bench is kept tidy by and large. I speak as I find, can't say more - and they sell a lot of cables if you look on ebay.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2018 19:56:05 GMT
I have a dark sense of humour, Dave. Don't take it seriously.
S.
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Post by dsjr on Jun 25, 2018 20:01:45 GMT
I'l try not to, as well as asking forgiveness for long experience colouring my judgement of certain purchasing situations.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 25, 2018 20:18:09 GMT
The speakers Mike replaced his 'Briks with raised eyebrows at the time and we laughed when he needed loadsof add-ons to make them better. proper speakers work first time in a wide range of rooms - but then, I'm looking at it from a pro perspective where a good monitor shouldn't have undue character. Most domestic speakers are designed to have a 'personality' from the outset and this is where part of the matching gear and cables comes in, tryingto fine tiune something good out of less good parts. Go hear a live jazz group and then some *proper* large ATC's playing at pretty realistic levels. It may alter perceptions as it did mine. the JBL 4367's I heard brought it all back last Autumn, although I'd have put them on stands. No bling, no modern active crossover, just a properly designed tweeter waveguide working right down cleanly and a decent 15" bass-mid carefully matched to it in a way the BBC forgot about in the 60's in their quest for bextrene perfection! Paul, you won't believe or accept what I'ms aying and I get this, but I've been there at the shop-floor end and seen dealers making a living out of it - ever more add-ons bring in ever more money. KJ are doing it as I type and the clients come back for evermore, so I'm not wrong. I'llget out of this, but PLEASE don't be lind to dealer's charms, 'cos this sought after sonic nirvana doesn't exist in the domestic audio arena and leads to thousands being spent for little more than psychological gain - and the feeling you're in a selct 'club' that us tossers outside aren't allowe dinto unless we spend the thousands of quid necessay to join... Andrew - Isobariks are not good speakers - end of - and I've owned three sets of the effers in passive form! No deep bass unless augmented by a fruitbox in full 'fruit,' or a Naim amp with low damping factor. Severely coloured boxy sounding mids which became squeakier as the 80's went on until the re-design and highs that are either chrome plated (Scan tweeters) or tinny saw blades (Hiquphon tweeter). The active ones by and large were on a different plane of existence but please don't defend the passive ones of any era, as they seriously were severely compromised and coloured most of the time. The ONLY time a passive pair really did work draw-droppingly well was with a QMI Gain-Cell driving them (800WPC into two ohms) and these had dynamics you'd never imagine from Naim 135's... Welcome back Paul. I'd prefer you to stay here so I'll back off I think. I can't dem what I'm saying either, so it's just words until/unless I can prove it to you! If Isobariks aren’t good for you then they aren’t good as far as you’re concerned. I readily accept that. The thing is, if they float someone else’s boat then they cannot be “bad” for them using the exact same yardstick. The ones I had took me closer to the music than many, many others. And I loved every minute of owning them. How can that be bad? Same goes for Mike I’d guess. Would I get the same buzz from another pair? I doubt it because I know how much they can vary from example to example and my own tastes and experiences may have moved on. I’m also settled with what I have. I do like both Scanspeak D2008 and Hiquphon tweeters though. Again can they be bad if I enjoy them? I say not for me. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 25, 2018 20:30:02 GMT
I'l try not to, as well as asking forgiveness for long experience colouring my judgement of certain purchasing situations. It’s ok, Dave. It’s a small forum so everyone here gets you and understands your background and experience. I used to get wound up over anyone holding absolutist views but it’s only a bit of wire and a pair of ears at the end of the day. Besides, the more you say Isobariks are Sh#t, you may dampen prices so that I can afford another pair for nostalgia! |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 25, 2018 20:31:59 GMT
Could be a monkey making them! S. Yes, you Got Me! I’m “Boy Friday!”  |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 25, 2018 20:33:52 GMT
Anyone else remember Karl Pilkington’s “Monkey News” on the Ricky Gervais show? Man, I loved that show. In fact anything with Karl in it is a big favourite. My wife reckons I’m just like him and I take that as a compliment.
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Post by macca on Jun 25, 2018 20:35:10 GMT
I don't know about the cost thing. I've seen people making their own cables for personal use and if you want to use good quality parts it can run to thirty quid.
Someone making them for a living has to put some profit on, then you've got tax and packaging and so forth. So for a top quality (not foo) cable to retail at £80 isn't unreasonable, with maybe a little more room beyond that.
Once you get to double that and beyond I think it's the start of the 'wasting your money' stage.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 25, 2018 21:02:51 GMT
I think that’s a fair summary and pretty much where I’d be, myself.
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Post by pauld on Jun 25, 2018 21:06:49 GMT
The speakers Mike replaced his 'Briks with raised eyebrows at the time and we laughed when he needed loadsof add-ons to make them better. proper speakers work first time in a wide range of rooms - but then, I'm looking at it from a pro perspective where a good monitor shouldn't have undue character. Most domestic speakers are designed to have a 'personality' from the outset and this is where part of the matching gear and cables comes in, tryingto fine tiune something good out of less good parts. Go hear a live jazz group and then some *proper* large ATC's playing at pretty realistic levels. It may alter perceptions as it did mine. the JBL 4367's I heard brought it all back last Autumn, although I'd have put them on stands. No bling, no modern active crossover, just a properly designed tweeter waveguide working right down cleanly and a decent 15" bass-mid carefully matched to it in a way the BBC forgot about in the 60's in their quest for bextrene perfection! Paul, you won't believe or accept what I'ms aying and I get this, but I've been there at the shop-floor end and seen dealers making a living out of it - ever more add-ons bring in ever more money. KJ are doing it as I type and the clients come back for evermore, so I'm not wrong. I'llget out of this, but PLEASE don't be lind to dealer's charms, 'cos this sought after sonic nirvana doesn't exist in the domestic audio arena and leads to thousands being spent for little more than psychological gain - and the feeling you're in a selct 'club' that us tossers outside aren't allowe dinto unless we spend the thousands of quid necessay to join... Andrew - Isobariks are not good speakers - end of - and I've owned three sets of the effers in passive form! No deep bass unless augmented by a fruitbox in full 'fruit,' or a Naim amp with low damping factor. Severely coloured boxy sounding mids which became squeakier as the 80's went on until the re-design and highs that are either chrome plated (Scan tweeters) or tinny saw blades (Hiquphon tweeter). The active ones by and large were on a different plane of existence but please don't defend the passive ones of any era, as they seriously were severely compromised and coloured most of the time. The ONLY time a passive pair really did work draw-droppingly well was with a QMI Gain-Cell driving them (800WPC into two ohms) and these had dynamics you'd never imagine from Naim 135's... Welcome back Paul. I'd prefer you to stay here so I'll back off I think. I can't dem what I'm saying either, so it's just words until/unless I can prove it to you! You’re not getting this are you, Dave. Insulting my friend is not going to convince me you know what you’re talking about. Mike uses TAD loudspeakers which just worked, so I don’t know what other nonscence you’re talking about. The fact the you said ‘we’ laughed when he needed loads of add ons, who’s the we and why are you so interested in bitching about somebody else’s system and choices? I’m glad you have an opinion about cables that is different from my own. It’s good for everyone to have opinions, but you aren’t going to convince me that the Coherent cables didn’t make a difference, because in my opinion they did and therefore were worth the outlay. |
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Post by pauld on Jun 25, 2018 21:09:18 GMT
P.S. we’ve never agreed on Hifi up to now, having known you over the years. That’s fine, but insulting my friend isn’t, so please refrain.
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Post by pauld on Jun 25, 2018 21:11:47 GMT
The speakers Mike replaced his 'Briks with raised eyebrows at the time and we laughed when he needed loadsof add-ons to make them better. proper speakers work first time in a wide range of rooms - but then, I'm looking at it from a pro perspective where a good monitor shouldn't have undue character. Most domestic speakers are designed to have a 'personality' from the outset and this is where part of the matching gear and cables comes in, tryingto fine tiune something good out of less good parts. Go hear a live jazz group and then some *proper* large ATC's playing at pretty realistic levels. It may alter perceptions as it did mine. the JBL 4367's I heard brought it all back last Autumn, although I'd have put them on stands. No bling, no modern active crossover, just a properly designed tweeter waveguide working right down cleanly and a decent 15" bass-mid carefully matched to it in a way the BBC forgot about in the 60's in their quest for bextrene perfection! Paul, you won't believe or accept what I'ms aying and I get this, but I've been there at the shop-floor end and seen dealers making a living out of it - ever more add-ons bring in ever more money. KJ are doing it as I type and the clients come back for evermore, so I'm not wrong. I'llget out of this, but PLEASE don't be lind to dealer's charms, 'cos this sought after sonic nirvana doesn't exist in the domestic audio arena and leads to thousands being spent for little more than psychological gain - and the feeling you're in a selct 'club' that us tossers outside aren't allowe dinto unless we spend the thousands of quid necessay to join... Andrew - Isobariks are not good speakers - end of - and I've owned three sets of the effers in passive form! No deep bass unless augmented by a fruitbox in full 'fruit,' or a Naim amp with low damping factor. Severely coloured boxy sounding mids which became squeakier as the 80's went on until the re-design and highs that are either chrome plated (Scan tweeters) or tinny saw blades (Hiquphon tweeter). The active ones by and large were on a different plane of existence but please don't defend the passive ones of any era, as they seriously were severely compromised and coloured most of the time. The ONLY time a passive pair really did work draw-droppingly well was with a QMI Gain-Cell driving them (800WPC into two ohms) and these had dynamics you'd never imagine from Naim 135's... Welcome back Paul. I'd prefer you to stay here so I'll back off I think. I can't dem what I'm saying either, so it's just words until/unless I can prove it to you! If Isobariks aren’t good for you then they aren’t good as far as you’re concerned. I readily accept that. The thing is, if they float someone else’s boat then they cannot be “bad” for them using the exact same yardstick. The ones I had took me closer to the music than many, many others. And I loved every minute of owning them. How can that be bad? Same goes for Mike I’d guess. Would I get the same buzz from another pair? I doubt it because I know how much they can vary from example to example and my own tastes and experiences may have moved on. I’m also settled with what I have. I do like both Scanspeak D2008 and Hiquphon tweeters though. Again can they be bad if I enjoy them? I say not for me. Agree with the sentiment here, Andrew. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 25, 2018 21:19:43 GMT
I hadn’t even heard of TAD speakers. They really vary in size but all look solidly built.
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Post by pauld on Jun 25, 2018 21:33:19 GMT
TAD is the high end brand of Pioneer, they were designed originally by the legendary Andrew Jones and the ones I have heard are superb.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2018 22:16:31 GMT
You have to love cable debates! They always seem to create a bit of controversy.
Oddly, few people argue about the plugs and connectors used. I think they make some small difference too, but like cables, I won't pay daft money for them.
From a convenience point of view, I do like Neutrik Profi phono plugs, but they are expensive. Also like those MS Audio jobbies favoured on AoS. As for Banna Plugs, Nakamichi and clones are great for the money, as are the large entry ones sold by Pete Nowicki (PeterN) on Ebay. Mains plugs I like MK.
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Post by dsjr on Jun 26, 2018 7:38:06 GMT
I wasn't criticisng the person, merely the fact that he didn't like the speakers much to start with, so his 'friendly' dealer came round with a box of goodies to sell and proceded to make everything 'right' with add-ons - it's all on TAS, or was... It's COHERENT I have the beef with, selling UK-unkown products that may prove difficult to shift in future times and suspect add-ons to make the end user feel 'better' about their purchase; that an 'experienced' dealer is there to sort out the sound for a few more hundred here and a few more hundred there. At least KJ sell from a known and regularly reviewed portfolio, even if I think they too are now peddling ever more expensive foo a lot of the time.. I don't believe you or Mike have heard BIG active PMC Pro, big modern JBL's or ATC active monitors (plus other big pro speaker brands), let alone compared them to real life sounds. No tasty bling or fancy finishes, or expensive wires needed, but a more lifelike sound from the off than many top domestic stereo systems and able to give an open window into the recording venue and techniques used in the production which even top end domestic systems lose, especially if vinyl is a main source. Macca knows what I mean I think. Your money guv'nor and your ears, but I'd never trust your dealer Paul with a penny if my life depended on it..., so I'll shut up for now. As for plugs. RCA phono plugs really are the pits, but that's what we have and I agree with audionut above regarding Neutrik and MS-Starline as being about as good as you really need unless you want them to look the business on the outside. There are catalogues full of far eastern plugs at not silly money to the trade, some of them looking incredibly posh. get your name embossed on them and they immediately become hundreds each
Sorry all. I've been too close to this Sh#t for far too long. HiFi's for the eyes as well as the ears. Bit like posh sports cars I suppose.
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Post by macca on Jun 26, 2018 8:00:08 GMT
Dave the difference between you and me and the bulk of the audiophile work is that we prefer to get it sounding like the studio and they don't. All about the emotion and the communication for them. I know from experience that a lot of people don't like hearing the music unadulterated, it doesn't sound 'right' to them.
This is the source of a lot of friction in hi-fi land, there's no need for there to be any, we all like what we like and a man has the right to spend his money on whatever he goddamn pleases.
The only issue I have with it is that newcomers might be sucked in and not realise that it isn't necessary to spend a fortune, especially on expensive bits and pieces that don't, objectively speaking, do an awful lot.
There was no-one presenting that alternative when I got into the hobby, I wish there had been.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 26, 2018 8:47:16 GMT
Dave the difference between you and me and the bulk of the audiophile work is that we prefer to get it sounding like the studio and they don't. All about the emotion and the communication for them. I know from experience that a lot of people don't like hearing the music unadulterated, it doesn't sound 'right' to them. This is the source of a lot of friction in hi-fi land, there's no need for there to be any, we all like what we like and a man has the right to spend his money on whatever he goddamn pleases. The only issue I have with it is that newcomers might be sucked in and not realise that it isn't necessary to spend a fortune, especially on expensive bits and pieces that don't, objectively speaking, do an awful lot. There was no-one presenting that alternative when I got into the hobby, I wish there had been. Very well put, Martin. Lots of sense in so few words. Wish I could do that  |
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Post by pauld on Jun 26, 2018 9:29:11 GMT
I wasn't criticisng the person, merely the fact that he didn't like the speakers much to start with, so his 'friendly' dealer came round with a box of goodies to sell and proceded to make everything 'right' with add-ons - it's all on TAS, or was... It's COHERENT I have the beef with, selling UK-unkown products that may prove difficult to shift in future times and suspect add-ons to make the end user feel 'better' about their purchase; that an 'experienced' dealer is there to sort out the sound for a few more hundred here and a few more hundred there. At least KJ sell from a known and regularly reviewed portfolio, even if I think they too are now peddling ever more expensive foo a lot of the time.. I don't believe you or Mike have heard BIG active PMC Pro, big modern JBL's or ATC active monitors (plus other big pro speaker brands), let alone compared them to real life sounds. No tasty bling or fancy finishes, or expensive wires needed, but a more lifelike sound from the off than many top domestic stereo systems and able to give an open window into the recording venue and techniques used in the production which even top end domestic systems lose, especially if vinyl is a main source. Macca knows what I mean I think. Your money guv'nor and your ears, but I'd never trust your dealer Paul with a penny if my life depended on it..., so I'll shut up for now. As for plugs. RCA phono plugs really are the pits, but that's what we have and I agree with audionut above regarding Neutrik and MS-Starline as being about as good as you really need unless you want them to look the business on the outside. There are catalogues full of far eastern plugs at not silly money to the trade, some of them looking incredibly posh. get your name embossed on them and they immediately become hundreds each
Sorry all. I've been too close to this Sh#t for far too long. HiFi's for the eyes as well as the ears. Bit like posh sports cars I suppose.
I am not sure that I will take that as apology as it isn't one. You have not only got the wrong end of the stick about the speakers, but you have rolled down the road on a log... he didn't dislike the speakers, in fact he really liked them from the start, but he then chose to make improvements beyond the speakers with ancillaries etc. You may be talking about the speakers that were in the middle, which were on loan, so honestly don't count. Oh and it's really none of your business, so maybe we should drop discussions about Mike and his system as it is annoying me. I can assure you that I have heard 'known and regularly positively reviewed products' such as the Naim NAC252, SC, 250 costing over £10k and they aren't a patch on my Belles amp which cost just slightly more than £2k. I am sure you'd say I got done, but I am afraid that in my world I believe I have done pretty well out of it. As you are aware, I also have a Beresford DAC which kicked the backside of a Audiolab MDAC and Rega DAC and Naim DAC which all cost vastly more money... so again, I probably got done there too. For me, Coherent Systems are the first 'Dealer' I have come across who have listened to what 'I' wanted, not tried to force anything down my throat, just made recommendations based on an extensive experience in the musical production world. I have never heard my Focal's sound so good, and every other dealer told me to sell them and buy something else. Oh and every other dealer tried to sell me Naim or Linn first... wonder why that would be! KJ, don't make me laugh, they are bought and paid for by the establishments. If you have such a problem with Coherent Systems, why don't you give Tony a call. I am sure he would be more than happy to have a discussion. Firstly though, I would try and experience their sales model before making negative remarks without having the full picture. |
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OK they are poor at some things but they can be really great in other areas. If something brings you masses of enjoyment than to me it can’t be intrinsically bad. 
