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Post by jimbo on Mar 25, 2020 18:34:20 GMT
Are you sure it was not a cold tub and a hot Pepsi? I was worried he was going to post a picture of himself stripped off in the hot tub!
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Post by dsjr on Mar 25, 2020 19:07:22 GMT
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JimBlog
Mar 25, 2020 19:14:56 GMT
via mobile
Post by sq225917 on Mar 25, 2020 19:14:56 GMT
Ate you sure the mscaler drops the volume level?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 25, 2020 19:18:02 GMT
Not one to pour scorn on a bit of kit I haven't heard but anything USB powered isnt going to hit the heights of something with a proper PSU. USB is filthy and dirty power. It needs a proper PSU orbits gonna battle the big boys, which is largely where the bulk of money is spent
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Post by macca on Mar 25, 2020 19:31:11 GMT
Not one to pour scorn on a bit of kit I haven't heard but anything USB powered isnt going to hit the heights of something with a proper PSU. USB is filthy and dirty power. It needs a proper PSU orbits gonna battle the big boys, which is largely where the bulk of money is spent But it has distortion below 120dB, noise below 135dB, delivers 22 bit dynamic range which is as good as it can get, despite being powered by USB. So if the USB is holding it back, where's the evidence of that in the testing? Measurement-wise it blows away some of the DACS that cost 5 grand, 13 grand. I know what you mean about USB but clearly in this case they've sorted that potential issue?
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 25, 2020 19:50:13 GMT
Not one to pour scorn on a bit of kit I haven't heard but anything USB powered isnt going to hit the heights of something with a proper PSU. USB is filthy and dirty power. It needs a proper PSU orbits gonna battle the big boys, which is largely where the bulk of money is spent But it has distortion below 120dB, noise below 135dB, delivers 22 bit dynamic range which is as good as it can get, despite being powered by USB. So if the USB is holding it back, where's the evidence of that in the testing? Measurement-wise it blows away some of the DACS that cost 5 grand, 13 grand. I know what you mean about USB but clearly in this case they've sorted that potential issue? It would appear so but I'm sceptical
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Post by dsjr on Mar 26, 2020 8:16:20 GMT
I'm delighted to see that dac designers are looking at all ways to isolate the electronics from the supply. Before you have ago at me, even Stan Beresford a few years ago made a claim with the Bushmaster (I think it was that far back but can't be sure now) that the isolation from the supply had been improved in leaps and bounds.
Sure USB outputs can be noisy, but it's a known thing and *seemingly* easily dealt with these days. Steady state distortions are also being tested too as it's beginning to filter though that our ears apparently work on a limited dynamic range (about 50db max) BUT on a sliding scale, so 'minus 120db' is actually important in the largest loudest sound systems. the 'details' we all claim to hear and rave over are only 20db or so down from the mean level. Rob Watts goes on about 'noise modulation' which apparently is an audible artefact in extremis and even Amir has mentioned it in some of his reviews - best get that noise down as far as possible.
You want to hear what 'minus 20 or minus 30db' is compared to the mean? Play a record with strong left only or right only sounds on it and then disconnect that channel, listening to the 'unspoken' one (in old fashioned parlance). You'll hear a reverberant halo (usually vinyl distortion ime) and the 'echo' of the disconnected channel not so quietly in the background, the level being to do with the stereo separation of the cartridge. A VERY crude description, but it may give you an idea of relative levels and 'dynamic range.' One reason why master recordings and digital in general often sound so 'dry' but I'm digressing hugely here so apologies for that.
Interesting that as some of our stereo systems get better, the 'cheaper' old digital products seem to make more sense than they did at the time. At least macca has found the same as I and come out with it before I dared to. These better balanced systems do still sound ok with vinyl, but this latter does seem entirely dependant on the shitty bits of black plastic we play and the severe things done to the music signal to get it into those grooves on all commercial pressings if not so much audiophile light jazzy demo stuff, which is something no player system can get past as it's been done beforehand.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 26, 2020 10:17:32 GMT
Upon reading that review properly, therebis no need to power it via USB.
There is a 5vdc input, in which I'd bung a LPSU.
I dont read that theres Galvanic isolation on the USB, which is a must IMO
However that aside, for a total spend of £165 for the DAC and a LPSU, this should be pretty good.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 27, 2020 10:32:10 GMT
Interesting installment there Jim.
The digital V analogue debate will range for the ages until such time as analogue is no longer available.
Truth is, it's a bit like comparing Petrol to diesel powered cars.
They both achieve the same thing, to move people from A-B, but the experience of driving either is very different.
Some folks prefer Petrol cars, others prefer Diesels.
I think the biggest error is comparing them at all, other than to choose which system would be best suited to the individual.
If you've got money to burn and already have a large library of Vinyl, then yes....why not indulge that and get a top class analogue replay system, however, as I've stated before, if the PecanPi had been available when I started my Audiophile dafness about 4 years ago, I would not have bothered with over developing the analogue replay, instead just keeping a modest Turntable to reminisce with.
The key to digital is to find something that you can enjoy listening to. Theres boat loads of material that isnt available on Vinyl, or is so expensive its unattainable. Why deprive yourself of this wonderful music, just because its digital.
Interestingly, I recall you telling me that you have Peter Schneider in your car all the time, as its "just a great listen when you've finished work on a friday"
Your enjoyment of that CD is not based on the replay format, but on the music itself.
If you can switch off the natural urge to compare digital to analogue, you open up a whole new world. A world that you enjoy in your car, kitchen, garage and anywhere else you play a CD when you arent critically listening.
For under £400 I have put together a Digital front end that would annihilate many, if not most Analogue systems. It doesn't annihilate my own analogue but I've spent over £5k on that side, but the difference is nowhere near the disparity in price, as I will demonstrate to you when we can meet up.
In fact, the Pi plays certain tracks far better than the analogue can.
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Post by jimbo on Mar 27, 2020 10:59:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 11:07:28 GMT
They did it before.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 27, 2020 11:10:04 GMT
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Post by firebottle on Mar 27, 2020 11:12:35 GMT
Good post Jim. As with experienced analogue engineers understanding the limitations of the vinyl and maximising the sonic benefits of the medium, it takes experienced digital sound engineers to maximise the whole digital medium.
The problem as you alluded to is that anyone can use pro tools but without a proper understanding of the limitations of the digital medium the results can be quite dire. I think modern software techniques with respect to impulse and phase response have helped the sound of digital improve once back in the analogue domain.
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Post by firebottle on Mar 27, 2020 11:16:32 GMT
I am old enough (!) to have worked on these Philips Mignon 45 players, they were incredibly well sprung inside, but so was the stylus. Tracking weight was provided by a spring, lord knows what the figure was
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Post by jimbo on Mar 27, 2020 11:17:45 GMT
It would be unbelievable, just imagine keeping the stylus in the groove but maybe they had a 10Kg tracking force!
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Post by jimbo on Mar 27, 2020 11:19:31 GMT
Good post Jim. As with experienced analogue engineers understanding the limitations of the vinyl and maximising the sonic benefits of the medium, it takes experienced digital sound engineers to maximise the whole digital medium. The problem as you alluded to is that anyone can use pro tools but without a proper understanding of the limitations of the digital medium the results can be quite dire. I think modern software techniques with respect to impulse and phase response have helped the sound of digital improve once back in the analogue domain. No doubt digital sounds very good nowadays but so often it is ruined in the mastering stage.
Oliver is right that when you get a track that is done right it can sound awesome.
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Post by firebottle on Mar 27, 2020 11:37:17 GMT
It would be unbelievable, just imagine keeping the stylus in the groove but maybe they had a 10Kg tracking force! Recollections are flooding in. There was a large lead (?) weight on the mechanism to damp the suspension and I think the tracking force was probably around 10 grams.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 12:21:47 GMT
It would be unbelievable, just imagine keeping the stylus in the groove but maybe they had a 10Kg tracking force! Recollections are flooding in. There was a large lead (?) weight on the mechanism to damp the suspension and I think the tracking force was probably around 10 grams. Vinyl was a lot cheaper though.
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Post by jimbo on Mar 27, 2020 12:42:01 GMT
Home listening set up currently.... shock horror FBA!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 27, 2020 14:32:18 GMT
Home listening set up currently.... shock horror FBA!
Live with what we can mate.
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Post by jimbo on Mar 27, 2020 15:02:27 GMT
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Post by brian2957 on Mar 27, 2020 16:54:03 GMT
Pretty sure it'll give the VPI a run for it's money James
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2020 17:05:08 GMT
Pretty sure it'll give the VPI a run for it's money James It will at the moment. Just imagine the pleasure of finally setting your system back up.
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Post by macca on Mar 27, 2020 17:09:43 GMT
Those old Sonys were not at all bad, assuming the speakers on it are decent. My uncles' one had Sony badged JBL 'Century' type speakers with it. The record deck was Sony though, not a Garrard.
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Post by jimbo on Mar 27, 2020 17:57:37 GMT
Pretty sure it'll give the VPI a run for it's money James It will at the moment. Just imagine the pleasure of finally setting your system back up. I know it will be a magical experience but who knows when now as house buying is now in the deep freeze!
Mind you I am still enjoying the music on Helens rig!
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Post by jimbo on Mar 27, 2020 18:01:24 GMT
Those old Sonys were not at all bad, assuming the speakers on it are decent. My uncles' one had Sony badged JBL 'Century' type speakers with it. The record deck was Sony though, not a Garrard. Originally I thought the speakers were made by Bower and Wilkins and badged by Sony but they are indeed Sony speakers manufactured in Japan and very good bookshelf speakers.
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Post by firebottle on Mar 28, 2020 9:51:00 GMT
Sincere post James and such truth. Those without music are losing out, I also am very grateful for a system and library.
Stay safe.
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Post by brian2957 on Mar 28, 2020 10:49:17 GMT
Wonderful sentiments , and so so true . In these troubled times close family must always come first . However , it's also very important that we remember our extended families and of course our friends . It's also important that we look after our mental and physical health . For without those we are no good to others . We must also look after the weaker members of our society and try to be kind to each other . At all times .
Hifi and music has been my hobby for the best part of 40 years and it has provided both an interest and an escape from the outside world . More so in these worrying times .
Take care of yourself and each other folks .
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Post by stevew on Mar 28, 2020 20:09:01 GMT
That’s so well expressed James.. (or is it Jim- sorry I get lost sometimes. Welcome to world ahead!) When this is all over I’ll host an audio addicts party.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 28, 2020 21:23:27 GMT
That’s so well expressed James.. (or is it Jim- sorry I get lost sometimes. Welcome to world ahead!) When this is all over I’ll host an audio addicts party. Offer accepted
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