Interesting bake off near Stoke

Is it now exclusive to them? I haven't checked in a while. I know Oliver and Macca were involved. Oliver was a member of the last forum amd I really hope he finds his way here again.

I'm not sure how Macca would feel about joining another forum when he's so closely associated with AOS but having met him, I have nothing but good things to say about him. He made a very generous donation to charity for a pair of speakers he had to collect from Newcastle. He didn't have to do that.

Personally I'm settled with my phono stage (Michell ISO) so a phono bake off wouldn't be worth the travel. A speaker bake-off just might tempt me if I could make it though.

You never seem to hear the Tom Evans phono stages get mentioned these days. I still use a Michell ISO which looks identical to the original Microgroove (I was told it acrptually is the same thing). I have preferred it to everything else I've tried but I have never tried a single higher price phono stage. For how little there is in any of them, they all seem too expensive to me. Ok, the Paradise looks to have a bit more inside it, but even so, I struggle to see the value.

I'm getting more and more out of touch with prices though, I bought two hifi mags today and there are pieces of plasticky tat selling for £6k and more. I just don't see the point when there are better built used items out there for normal people's money.

Hi Oliver.

Thanks for joining. I have no axe to grind over this bake off and no real interest in seeing who, if anyone “wins”. I really would like to help in any way I can though. Just looking to the future, what would need to be different to get a future bake off sorted?

I’m completely ignorant of so much here. For one I don’t know where Alan lives. I know he returned from France but nothing more specific. Does Alan want to attend and is that a deal-breaker, or would he accept you or another trusted party to bring his kit? Is there any issue over Richard attending if it’s Alan or yourself meeting up? I think you are West Midlands somewhere? Is that correct?

Sorry to ask so many questions that are probably common knowledge, but it’s new to me and new to here, so I’m hoping that it may help to understand the lay of the land.

Thanks for having me! Again lol


Well, we actually don't need to do the NVA P2 V Modded Vivant bakeoff anymore, because its been done. In private, by Alan and I due to all the bloody shenanigans that has gone on over this one. The purpose of the original suggestion was for Alan to gauge how far the Modded Vivant has come against the phonostage that we felt set the benchmark in Hudds. The NVA P2 was that phonostage and we really tried to make it happen in public, but it seems whenever the DR is involved, it's like every one suddenly has somewhere else to be. It wasn't meant as a winner or loser situation, he just wanted to see how his modded Vivant would fare. Now we know.

Dave Brooks was good enough to do another bakeoff recently and fair play to him, hes a good guy who has hifi in his heart. We just were not capable of attending. That would've been ideal.

There's nothing to be done, Westie, but thank you for your offer of help. I don't think a Nato intervention will bring peace to this region of the Forum world.

So is Oliver’s phono 2 actually going to this bake-off?

I’d really like to know if it will be present. I realise there’s will be reporting restrictions at AoS but I was going to offer space to report it here to any attendee who wanted to make use of it. I realise it may not be a perfect scenario but at least it will be there and reported on.

Is that OK with you, Oliver? I realise it won’t get reported at AoS but any attendee can discuss it anywhere else they choose (doesn’t have to be here but I will happily host reports without any need to join) and all attending will at least get to hear more stages for comparison,

Edit: looks like Oliver has signed off. Well it is late but it looks like the phono bake off will have a late runner after all Here’s hoping........I will sign off there too and get some sleep before it gets light in an hour,

Just a gentle reminder that I want other forum personas left out of discussion here, There is now a realistic opportunity for the comparison to take place. Sure, the circumstances are not ideal. Richard will clearly have trust issues and Oliver will need to find a way to give it an airing at an event sponsored by a forum on which it can’t be reported on. There are two sizeable obstacles and probably other smaller ones.

If the comparison between the two stages can be done as a head to head after the main body of the bake-off, it wouldn’t affect reporting. If the settings and likely cartridge used can be outlined and agreed beforehand, it will perhaps ease any concerns over it being a ken to Sound its best. Just my starting thoughts.

Why not use the space to try and work through those issues and actually get the thing done.

Alan (firebottle) joined HFS to request a bake off of his updated phono stage against the NVA Phono 2. He said that the previous bake off (at Huddersfield) had made him realise that he needed to do better. Richard (Doc / Dr. Evil) agreed to a 2nd bake off. Alan was fairly rigid about the distance he was willing to travel and that it must be a neutral venue. Richard was more flexible and suggested Macca's place. Macca said yes to a bake off but no to Richard attending...which obviously made it a non starter. Rather than seek an alternative venue for the Firebottle/ NVA bake off, Alan told Richard that they would do a bake off at Macca' s anyway, that Richard would not be welcome to attend, and that the original bake off would not now be needed.

Im not a fan of a lot of stuff that goes on at AOS but under normal circumstances I would just think 'they are having a bake off, good luck to them'. I like bake offs! The problem I have with this one is the way that it came about and particularly the treatment of Richard. I think even those who dislike Richard, for whatever reason, can see it for what it is.

I have been at a bake off where Richard's kit was not the winner - and Richard was the first to say so, and without excuse. I know others have had the same experience at other bake offs. Richard is, before anything else, an enthusiast. He is passionate about this hobby. He makes his gear to please himself and if you also happen to like it then he will let you buy it. If that brings him an adequate income then he carries on. If not then he does something else to pay the bills. He does not think like a salesman.  He seeks to find the absolute truth rather than to merely promote his own products. Many sellers do not think or act that way and they make the mistake of believing that Richard must be playing the same games that they are. He isn't.

Oliver (bigman80) is a nice guy who is also an enthusiast. He wants to be helpful to his mates, especially Alan. Unfortunately, by his own admission, Oliver was not immediately straightforward about the outcome of the Huddersfield bake off and  it apoeared he only backed down when he had no choice. He placed loyalty to Alan above the truth. Not a crime but not something that builds trust with others. Of course, this put him in the centre of the crosshairs at HFS . He'll just have to suck that up...holding his hands up over there and showing some sense of humour about it should help him put it in the past.

Alan can build trust (if he is interested in doing so) by doing his utmost to make the NVA/ Firebottle bake off happen in the not too distant future. He did request It, after all. From what I read and see, Richard is willing to offer 'Day 1' to anyone who is serious about it...so there is one party at the table.

...

Hi Westie,

With my negotiator head on I would say it would be very unhelpful. I think it would rightly be seen as game playing. The AOS bake off should be entirely separated from anything related to Alan's original request. The AOS bake off cannot be seen as impartial while Richard is banned from attending.

Well that wasn’t what I expected to hear. I can see that there would be a concern over a fair comparison but this hasn’t two elements to it.

1. The use of the phono stage. This can only be affected by things like what it’s plugged into, what cables it’s used with and what cartridge.f these are identified ahead of the comparison then it hopefully irons out much of the potential,fir dispute afterwards.
2. The audience. There’s little you can do about this being an AoS event, but then the ban on NVA discussion also takes care of it being reported at all, let alone unfavourably. To me it’s unlikely that you could keep a lid on the outcome, especially when it’s only going to be posted on other forums. If the comparison is done AFTER the main bake off, it’s a separate comparison.

So if you can minimise the possibility of the ACTUAL performance being compromised and create an opportunity for the PERCEIVED performance to be reported by any attendee, there a good chance that we will get a comparison and hear about it.

Far from ideal, but at least it is imminent and IMO a better bet than pinning your hopes on getting something else together from scratch, with all the same obstacles to overcome.

Just for clarity, it was your first post my opening line addressed, not your second!

Hi all,

Glad to see your input, Paul. I'll extend the same courtesy displayed via our emails.

The NVA wasn't bought entirely to include in the bakeoff. I just want to make it clear that the primary goal was to give Alan the chance to see how far he'd got his Vivant. The bakeoff was a secondary motive BUT I wasn't sure I would take it. Even today, after some gentle persuasion from folks, I am erring on the "No" side.

There isn't any upside to taking it. It can't be reported on, there can be no satisfying the "Honesty" arguement because, well, how would I be able to convince the Doc it was given fair treatment? I can't.

Richard is right, it would be unfair to include it in any writeup and where do I put that! lol. It's not likely to be included in any written word on the bakeoff.

The NVA, is mine to do with as I wish. And I reserve that right.

Secondly, yes, I tried to protect Alan a bit but I only succeeded in hurting Richard which wasn't my intention. I accept the Sh#t I get over that. No question but let's be honest, it's extended WAY beyond that. Not a crime, not really dishonest just not entirely transparent. Something I have learned from greatly.

You can't behave like a bell end Monday to Saturday and then be disappointed at not getting a seat at the table for Sunday dinner. That's why we have the situation with RD not being invited anywhere. Again he references Marco and the bloke has had nothing to do with anything going on at this bakeoff other than to apologise that he can't attend.

Richard, youre obsessed with him. It's like a school girl crush.

The war could be over anytime. You are guilty of dragging it on. You could stop participating and there would be no more war.

Let's not stretch what I said about his company at Huddersfield. I said he seemed jovial and fairly friendly (to others) I also said he did his best to ignore me at all times, something I have also stated elsewhere on HFS.

Again, let's be clear, I haven't banned Richard, the group of organisers felt that the only way to proceed was without him. It was a group decision and as I've already stated, this happened because of his behaviour on the internet. As soon as people started to enquire about his likely attendance, they quickly removed their goods and themselves from the purported initial bakeoff. They wouldn't attend, Paul. I'm not making it up.

Sure, we could've put RD, Alan, myself and maybe a couple of HFS members in a room and thrashed it out but it just didn't appeal.

We scrapped the idea as a collective and turned our attention to a AoS MiBo.

I do understand why Richard feels aggreived and I do see that things didn't go to the original plan BUT its not my behaviour that has caused his exclusion and until that is realised and acted upon, it will keep happening to him. I tried to find other alternatives but NO BODY was willing to entertain the idea if he was involved. I'm glad there are still meets he is welcome to as his products DESERVE to be out there, getting a listen. This I don't dispute.

I really can't make it any clearer than that.

My bad instruction I’m afraid. If you choose B.B. code full linked, it will show like this:



Very tidy job on the rack. Just my sort of thing.