Bigman80
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The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 21, 2019 17:29:53 GMT
Talking to a chap today, it hit me how many enthusiasts mod their gear. He was talking about his modded Yammys and his "Triggers Broom" SL1200. I said I was surprised anyone dared mess with NS1000Ms and he mentioned others which were also modded at the latest show.
He said the motivation for him was to try and get high end sound without high end money. I get that but I could never do it.
The only time I mod stuff is cosmetic refurb when damaged, or upgraded wiring etc again when the item has already been bodged or broken. I get that it can often sound better if you know what you're doing, but it's a bit like getting a tattoo to me. It's personalising stuff that i like to see in factory condition.
What about the rest of you? Am I in a monopoly of one. Or do you also struggle with the idea of modding?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2019 17:34:04 GMT
I have no objection in principle to modding, but am a) cack-handed and b) way too impatient to RTFM. Anything I 'modded' would be reduced to scrap value. I can change a plug if I really concentrate. Other than that, I leave well alone.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2019 17:34:44 GMT
I know next to nothing about electronics. When I hear anything about modding good gear, it increases my anxieties.
S.
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Post by sq225917 on Oct 21, 2019 17:40:34 GMT
I own ns1000s, they're modded, but. I replace old pio and lytics with new film and lytics of the same value and matched the esr. I replace the tweeter with a raal, which has the same sensitivity and an almost identical impedance curve, it's a drop in replacement. I dont take the engineering choices they made lightly, after all they built a factory to make the drivers so one assumes they didnt scrimp elsewhere.
On electronics I'll only do like for like or psu mods unless I understand the circuit fundamentals. And not being electronics trained that means I have to learn the entire circuit and understand all the choices. I only know about half a dozen circuits well enough to be happy jumping into any part of them with abandon.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2019 18:29:18 GMT
Re doing lousy soldering, improving wires, binding posts, cleaning PC boards, fitting better valves, resistors, and caps within in reason. Dumping wall warts for proper power supplies yes.
Messing with the cricut no.
Although I do have a Cambridge Audio 651P which sounds not much better than using the phono stage of a vintage Jap amp going through the tape loop. It has been put back in its box, that has made me think of getting that modded just for the hell of it, cant possibly make it worse. My Musical Fidelity XLPS V3 is in a different league but only after dumping the wall wart for a Little Pinki power supply.
I see Arkless does a mod on these things, pity I am at the other end of the world.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2019 18:41:15 GMT
I like a bit of modding and when you have a Firebottle on your doorstep, it means i can go bonkers and the get him to fix it lol.
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Post by alit on Oct 21, 2019 20:23:25 GMT
I’m always tinkering with my gear, can’t stop myself lol.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2019 20:25:50 GMT
I’m always tinkering with my gear, can’t stop myself lol. You're in the right place, this is audioADDICTS after all lol
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2019 20:38:36 GMT
Re doing lousy soldering, improving wires, binding posts, cleaning PC boards, fitting better valves, resistors, and caps within in reason. Dumping wall warts for proper power supplies yes. Messing with the cricut no. Although I do have a Cambridge Audio 651P which sounds not much better than using the phono stage of a vintage Jap amp going through the tape loop. It has been put back in its box, that has made me think of getting that modded just for the hell of it, cant possibly make it worse. My Musical Fidelity XLPS V3 is in a different league but only after dumping the wall wart for a Little Pinki power supply. I see Arkless does a mod on these things, pity I am at the other end of the world. Had the Arkless modded Cambridge for comparison. It not only got shafted by NVA phono 2 but a Musical Fidelity V90 LPS sounded a good bit better. Not a fan of modding. I also think if you sell modded components (as opposed to repaired or updated parts), they will likely be harder to move on and actually be devalued.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2019 21:06:18 GMT
Re doing lousy soldering, improving wires, binding posts, cleaning PC boards, fitting better valves, resistors, and caps within in reason. Dumping wall warts for proper power supplies yes. Messing with the cricut no. Although I do have a Cambridge Audio 651P which sounds not much better than using the phono stage of a vintage Jap amp going through the tape loop. It has been put back in its box, that has made me think of getting that modded just for the hell of it, cant possibly make it worse. My Musical Fidelity XLPS V3 is in a different league but only after dumping the wall wart for a Little Pinki power supply. I see Arkless does a mod on these things, pity I am at the other end of the world. Had the Arkless modded Cambridge for comparison. It not only got shafted by NVA phono 2 but a Musical Fidelity V90 LPS sounded a good bit better. Not a fan of modding. I also think if you sell modded components (as opposed to repaired or updated parts), they will likely be harder to move on and actually be devalued. That is good to know thank you, think I will flog it then, it is as new, it is just taking up space and its worth is being eaten away by inflation.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2019 21:24:48 GMT
Regarding Vintage gear, Modding is ok if its 100% reversible imho..
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2019 6:54:03 GMT
I quite like my “Triggers Broom” SL1200. It sounds great, and is pretty unique. I have kept all of the original parts, so could put the deck back to standard, but why would I want to?
As for modding the other gear, I upgraded some Opamps in my audio PC, again reversible, but have not felt the need to play any further.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2019 7:24:24 GMT
Sometimes the mods warrant the effort.
In certain items I've seen, I'd have swapped out substandard parts for one's that meets my standard. I am a bit OCD, so if I like something, I HAVE to do what I think will improve it. I have been proven right on many occasions.
The Lounge Audio LCR phonostage that I heard recently is a prime example of this philosophy. When Firebottle purchased it, it had the most off kilter RIAA curve, either of us had ever seen. It was seriously abysmal.
After weeks of Alan playing with it, modding it and upgrading bits, it now sounds really good. Actually, good enough to probably sit quite comfortably in almost any system. Same with the Tron Convergence. That sounded thick, heavy and slow. After modding, it was superb.
I definitely believe modding has a place, but only if you know what you're doing, which other than changing caps and resistors, I do not!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2019 12:19:56 GMT
Had the Arkless modded Cambridge for comparison. It not only got shafted by NVA phono 2 but a Musical Fidelity V90 LPS sounded a good bit better. Not a fan of modding. I also think if you sell modded components (as opposed to repaired or updated parts), they will likely be harder to move on and actually be devalued. That is good to know thank you, think I will flog it then, it is as new, it is just taking up space and its worth is being eaten away by inflation. Classicrock is talking out of his arse. The Arkless 640P will beat either of those. Try reading up the hundred or so reviews you can google. Some prefer it to phono stages costing £800-1000
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2019 12:36:01 GMT
Obviously I'm all for modding and it's a service I offer to customers. There's modding and there's modding though... I usually wouldn't buy anything that has been modded by someone who isn't an electronic engineer... Unfortunately virtually everything that audiophiles believe to be an improvement or useful mod is a waste of time or a retrograde step... eg virtually everything mentioned up thread so far! ie some things I would never do (unless the original fitment was broken) would include fitting new binding posts, phono sockets, wiring, resistors etc etc.... all a complete waste of time in sound quality terms
If you are not capable of designing the amp then don't try and mod it is what I say...
The biggest issue I generally find is that the more modern the equipment then the less modifiable it generally is, either because everything that can be done has been done or because it's all so miniaturised that the mods won't fit. OTOH gear from the 60's and 70's often has so many aspects that can easily be improved that it's a matter of where to start.... BUT the owner will often say "it's a 50 year old classic so I don't want it to be non standard in any way".... yer can't win!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2019 12:49:29 GMT
OFC binding posts will not improve sound but some of them on old amps are bloody awful it is just for ease of use. I had coupling caps, resistors changed, and the board cleaned on a cheap Chinese valve amp I use as a headphone amp, it did make it sound better, and it is now as quite as a mouse.
A great pity that it would be uneconomical for you to mod the Cambridge due to shipping etc, I would love to give it a try.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2019 13:15:56 GMT
If its your bit of kit and you plan on keeping it then I'd say fill yer boots. Why not? On the other hand, if you like to box swap and need to be able to sell stuff, leave it alone other than like for like swaps on failed or failing components.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2019 13:20:27 GMT
Speakers are a concern.
I see people modding speakers based on 'upgrades' carried out by others on forums to the extent where it becomes 'the blind leading the blind'. None or at least very few actually knowing the consequences of their actions
You see them slopping contact adhesive on cones as a doping layer, attempting to add cabinet bracing, removing wadding, adding wadding, blocking ports, adding ports, substituting unsuitable drivers and so on (and on).
I certainly wouldn't entertain buying speakers that had irreversible alterations.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2019 13:30:30 GMT
OFC binding posts will not improve sound but some of them on old amps are bloody awful it is just for ease of use. I had coupling caps, resistors changed, and the board cleaned on a cheap Chinese valve amp I use as a headphone amp, it did make it sound better, and it is now as quite as a mouse. A great pity that it would be uneconomical for you to mod the Cambridge due to shipping etc, I would love to give it a try. I have to totally disagree with the binding post statement.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2019 17:04:35 GMT
OFC binding posts will not improve sound but some of them on old amps are bloody awful it is just for ease of use. I had coupling caps, resistors changed, and the board cleaned on a cheap Chinese valve amp I use as a headphone amp, it did make it sound better, and it is now as quite as a mouse. A great pity that it would be uneconomical for you to mod the Cambridge due to shipping etc, I would love to give it a try. I have to totally disagree with the binding post statement. Oohh I guess this one of these times I'm now supposed to say nothing and not point out the impossibility of binding posts making a difference and that if you think they do then it's 100% certain that you're imagining it
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2019 17:06:16 GMT
I have to totally disagree with the binding post statement. Oohh I guess this one of these times I'm now supposed to say nothing and not point out the impossibility of binding posts making a difference and that if you think they do then it's 100% certain that you're imagining it Haha, no, you can comment.... Oh you did lol It's demonstrable. I have done it to people, honestly. I know there's no chance of changing your mind and I respect that. However, my mind is 100% convinced.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2019 17:32:13 GMT
Oohh I guess this one of these times I'm now supposed to say nothing and not point out the impossibility of binding posts making a difference and that if you think they do then it's 100% certain that you're imagining it Haha, no, you can comment.... Oh you did lol It's demonstrable. I have done it to people, honestly. I know there's no chance of changing your mind and I respect that. However, my mind is 100% convinced. Well you are 100% wrong.... and it's 100% certain that's it's only in your mind... but carry on... I will not convince you otherwise I'm sure
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2019 17:32:54 GMT
Haha, no, you can comment.... Oh you did lol It's demonstrable. I have done it to people, honestly. I know there's no chance of changing your mind and I respect that. However, my mind is 100% convinced. Well you are 100% wrong.... and it's 100% certain that's it's only in your mind... but carry on... I will not convince you otherwise I'm sure I...... will...... not.... Respond lol
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2019 17:34:41 GMT
OK,,, I can't help it lol
If connections don't matter, or make no difference, explain the IACS and why they sound different.
And don't say they don't sou d different because they 100% do
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2019 17:46:33 GMT
Surely any difference can only be established by a) measurement or b) blind testing. Otherwise it's just opinion.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2019 18:07:17 GMT
Surely any difference can only be established by a) measurement or b) blind testing. Otherwise it's just opinion. Blind testing is for those it makes happy. If there's an audible difference in equipment or components in any context I use them in, I'm quite happy to trust my judgement.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2019 18:32:45 GMT
OK,,, I can't help it lol If connections don't matter, or make no difference, explain the IACS and why they sound different. And don't say they don't sou d different because they 100% do I had to look that up... and apparently it is 100% pure copper.. which will make no difference. Ohms Law is always right. That's why it's a law! I don't trust your ears, my ears or any ones ears as expectation bias is a powerful thing.... If it can't be spotted in a double blind test then it makes no difference. A good illustration, which I've seen others agree with, is that there has been times when on a specific evening I've thought my system was sounding spectacularly good, but then the next day, with nothing adjusted in any way and with the same CD or record still there from the previous evening, I've merely switched it all on again and sat down to listen... and thought "FFS what was I thinking last night!!?? That's crap!" So much can be down to the mood you are in, maybe how much sleep you had, how many coffees you had earlier or whatever other variables come into play and which can alter the way your brain perceives what your ears are telling it...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2019 18:41:47 GMT
OK,,, I can't help it lol If connections don't matter, or make no difference, explain the IACS and why they sound different. And don't say they don't sou d different because they 100% do I had to look that up... and apparently it is 100% pure copper.. which will make no difference. Ohms Law is always right. That's why it's a law! I don't trust your ears, my ears or any ones ears as expectation bias is a powerful thing.... If it can't be spotted in a double blind test then it makes no difference. A good illustration, which I've seen others agree with, is that there has been times when on a specific evening I've thought my system was sounding spectacularly good, but then the next day, with nothing adjusted in any way and with the same CD or record still there from the previous evening, I've merely switched it all on again and sat down to listen... and thought "FFS what was I thinking last night!!?? That's crap!" So much can be down to the mood you are in, maybe how much sleep you had, how many coffees you had earlier or whatever other variables come into play and which can alter the way your brain perceives what your ears are telling it... Perhaps, for the benefit of those like me, you can explain how Ohms Law is applicable to the conductivity of a metal or other material? Also IACs is a measurement of the ability of materials to conduct. Silver tops it at 106 with copper at 100 Technically speaking, its a measured result of the conductivity of metals, so for me, when my ears told me that there was a difference between solid silver rca plugs and gold plated copper, prior to doing any research, the research confirmed my thoughts.
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Post by sq225917 on Oct 22, 2019 20:03:03 GMT
I've explained it already vis a vis the reduced conductivity of rhodium plated sockets. The reduction in conductivity is equivalent to adding a couple of cm to a typical interconnect. It might only be 50% or so as conductive as pure copper but you're still talking of a difference that would require your sockets to be nearly 100m long to put an ohm in the way of the signal.
How tight you screw them down and contact area is wàaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more important
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2019 20:13:31 GMT
I've explained it already vis a vis the reduced conductivity of rhodium plated sockets. The reduction in conductivity is equivalent to adding a couple of cm to a typical interconnect. It might only be 50% or so as conductive as pure copper but you're still talking of a difference that would require your sockets to be nearly 100m long to put an ohm in the way of the signal. How tight you screw them down and contact area is wàaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more important Ah yes, i remember. So why bother with any copper connections at all!
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