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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2019 15:07:23 GMT
What you guys think, in my view I would not tolerate one of the things for stereo listening. Yet many do.
I have heard a few multi channel amps that could be called marginally acceptable, nothing more. Never an AVR they all sound crap in my book, no matter how much they cost. Even a processor used as a pre - amp is a no no. Tried an expensive Proceed processor as a pre once, it was no better than an entry level Rotel integrated used as a pre, and I simply loath the sound of all Rotel amps. Suppose if you fiddle with all those settings you might get it to sound like something half decent, but I doubt it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2019 15:15:25 GMT
I would never ever dream of buying one.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2019 15:18:19 GMT
I would never ever dream of buying one. If someone gave you one? I believe they make excellent door stops when the HDMI port blows. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 7, 2019 17:22:22 GMT
I might be taking a step in that direction.....sot of. Will explain in a day or so  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2019 18:25:31 GMT
I might be taking a step in that direction.....sot of. Will explain in a day or so GET OUT!  |
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Post by macca on Sept 7, 2019 21:04:03 GMT
I have a friend who runs a big Onkyo 7 channel job. For music it is not bad at all with all the gizmos switched off and source direct on and that. It cost him a grand about ten years ago so it was top of the range. It clips pretty easily though of you try to crank it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2019 8:27:55 GMT
I recently swapped my discrete DAC,pre,power setup for a Yamaha AV amp. It’s not quite as good but I now have one remote to control the whole lot, the TV and sound are properly synced (the old dac has a very slight delay as it was fed from the tv digital out). But when I say it’s not quite as good, I listen to more music now simply because it’s more convenient. The wife and kids can use it too.
I still have my valve amps connected via the pre out on the Yamaha if I want to make the effort but I can be listening to music with a couple of taps in the phone now, swap it to a film when the kids want and swap back with another tap.
And I don’t have stacks of boxes and quite as many wires now...
And I got it for free 👍
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Post by macca on Sept 8, 2019 8:41:42 GMT
What model is it?
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Post by dsjr on Sept 8, 2019 10:01:11 GMT
Fascinating threads on ASR regarding AVR's as a breed. AVR's seem incredibly compromised compared to dedicated two channel amps/receivers of old and more so today as costs are forced down. Five, six and now seven channels of amplification needing very cool running designs to prevent thermal damage long term, relatively small power supply (one medium size transformer for all of it), little isolation it seems in each supply to the digital circuits and so on and so on. Oh, and poor resale value as they're obsolete so quickly. Yamaha used to do good ones as did Denon (Denon's AV amp stages always sounded soft toned and a bit bland to me on stereo music), but no idea now and basic performance into anything other than 'peak music power' into a dummy load (8 ohm resistor) seems poor...
Around the year 2001, the mainstream high quality audio market suffered a huge switch in loyalties to AV systems, the buyers of which NOT AT ALL INTERESTED in playing music CD's let alone antiquated vinyl. The total focus was on video and the way our brains seem to work, once there's a picture, any old sound will do - ever heard a typical CRT TV of old just playing music? Total crap, even the higher quality B&O ones with active speaker modules built in they used to make!
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Post by macca on Sept 8, 2019 10:17:25 GMT
I had a watch of 'Training Day' on blu ray through my pal's 7.2 THX reference system, on a 60 inch Pioneer Plasma TV. Twin subs are powered Velodynes, at a grand each.
Picture quality superb. But despite the system being entirely THX reference spec you could hear the amp clipping on peaks. It was uncomfortable. Conclusions: THX Reference is bullshit, and even Onkyo's top of the line AV receiver, at a thousand quid, is not remotely powerful enough for the job it needs to do.
For a few years I ran a 5.1 set up using a 7 channel Sony I bought brand new bin end for £100 as it has no HDMI connectivity and HDMI was the new thing back then. Not as powerful as the Onkyo but in terms of sound quality, absolutely no difference.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2019 10:36:30 GMT
Rx-v 1067 I run it into tannoy Cheviots and a warfdale powered sub so it gets an easy life really, I doubt I use more than 20wpc. It’s slightly harder than the old setup but that was an old TEAC d1 dac so I expect that’s where it comes from I use a teac t1 transport via spdif, a Roku media player for Spotify and films via hdmi and a crap toshiba Blu-ray for films via hdmi. I haven’t tried cd via the toshiba yet (the old all transports sound the same test) Even the phono stage isn’t too bad but it’s only replaced the one in the rotel rc850 so nothing that special |
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Post by dsjr on Sept 8, 2019 11:06:36 GMT
As an example, Bose made a dedicated AV sub-sat 'lifestyle system' (I thinkj it was the Lifestyle 30. With video taking 70% of your brains processing, it 'sounded' fine, but turn the picture off and switch to stereo, although it was smoother toned than the smaller Acoustimass systems (the pods were smaller on the 30), the sound shrunk into blandness - and of course the boom-box sub working too high always detached itself from the tiny cubes sonically...
Very long time ago now, Rotel made a AV preamp and *separate* multi-channel power-amp. Sounded great on everything but nobody wanted it where we were - too expensive and 'audiophile' for their tastes. I think Arcam bridged this gap the best from memory, but it's all dead now I think in audiophoo-land.
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Post by macca on Sept 8, 2019 11:09:21 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2019 12:27:53 GMT
I shall have to destroy it then now.... thanks a lot 🙄 It does need the video circuitry turning off (pure direct) to sound its best for audio |
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Post by macca on Sept 8, 2019 12:42:56 GMT
lol knew you'd like that.
Yes you have to turn all the gubbins off for music. I'd noticed that many years ago but I see that in the ASR reviews he tests this and the noise and distortion go up massively when not using the 'direct' function.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2019 13:30:13 GMT
lol knew you'd like that. Yes you have to turn all the gubbins off for music. I'd noticed that many years ago but I see that in the ASR reviews he tests this and the noise and distortion go up massively when not using the 'direct' function. IThe dsp chips in an amp like that will be ‘ok’ but not optimised for audio quality despite probably being extremely powerful if just used for sound. It’s quite muffled with it left turned on. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 8, 2019 16:50:50 GMT
I was chasing a. Bryston 8b 4 Channel amp, but I fell asleep and missed auction end. Went for just 738. It was a long hike to collect so it’s cool.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2019 18:20:25 GMT
Bryston? Do not think you will like, all the ones I have tried have been a tad on the rough side.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 8, 2019 18:26:59 GMT
Bryston? Do not think you will like, all the ones I have tried have been a tad on the rough side. I had a 4bST and I actually liked it a lot. Way better than both Krell 80 and 100 to my ears. The 8b is essentially a pair of 4bs in one case. It’s pretty inevitable that I will get another Bryston amp, largely because I like the looks and I’d like to keep one in my collection. It won’t replace my Sonneteer stuff but something powerful,to wheel out occasionally would be nice. |
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