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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 17:11:53 GMT
What is a decent CD transport to go for these days?
I am probably looking closer at the £500 to the £1k level, so I am guessing a CXC would be best?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 17:56:33 GMT
I use one of the better Denon and JVC CDP's they sound as good into my DAC as any of the transports I have tried. Theta, Levinson, Meridian, Audio Alchemy, Wadia among'st others. CDP's don't look as impressive granted. Got some rich mates they lend me stuff. Even got a Samsung CD-44R here, a rare old bird, I had a digital out fitted to it, and it sounds as good as any, It like the JVC has a very substantial tough looking transport section. That being said have tried some CDP's as transports and they do not sound all that great, (makes no sense, a cd reader is a cd reader should not matter but somehow it does). luck of the draw, suppose it depends on what you are looking for sound wise, and how much you like to spend, I am a cheap skate, no one cap fits all in this hobby. As for what to recommend as a transport, not much help am I.  |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 29, 2019 21:06:46 GMT
I use one of the better Denon and JVC CDP's they sound as good into my DAC as any of the transports I have tried. Theta, Levinson, Meridian, Audio Alchemy, Wadia among'st others. CDP's don't look as impressive granted. Got some rich mates they lend me stuff. Even got a Samsung CD-44R here, a rare old bird, I had a digital out fitted to it, and it sounds as good as any, It like the JVC has a very substantial tough looking transport section. That being said have tried some CDP's as transports and they do not sound all that great, (makes no sense, a cd reader is a cd reader should not matter but somehow it does). luck of the draw, suppose it depends on what you are looking for sound wise, and how much you like to spend, I am a cheap skate, no one cap fits all in this hobby. As for what to recommend as a transport, not much help am I. It is odd, but as you say, the differences are there between CD transports. I’d buy a Kenwood DP-X9010. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2019 21:27:43 GMT
I use one of the better Denon and JVC CDP's they sound as good into my DAC as any of the transports I have tried. Theta, Levinson, Meridian, Audio Alchemy, Wadia among'st others. CDP's don't look as impressive granted. Got some rich mates they lend me stuff. Even got a Samsung CD-44R here, a rare old bird, I had a digital out fitted to it, and it sounds as good as any, It like the JVC has a very substantial tough looking transport section. That being said have tried some CDP's as transports and they do not sound all that great, (makes no sense, a cd reader is a cd reader should not matter but somehow it does). luck of the draw, suppose it depends on what you are looking for sound wise, and how much you like to spend, I am a cheap skate, no one cap fits all in this hobby. As for what to recommend as a transport, not much help am I. It is odd, but as you say, the differences are there between CD transports. I’d buy a Kenwood DP-X9010. For SPDIF output, it’s effectively an analogue output so the quality of that output will affect what the DAC receives. |
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Post by macca on Aug 30, 2019 6:38:21 GMT
Digital transmission is the same as analogue transmission, it's all just varying voltage over time. If you can add noise to an analogue signal - which you can - you can add it to a digital one. The only difference between the two is how the signal is dealt with by the electronics. Think about it that way you can see how a transport can add noise after it has read the disc and before it outputs that to the DAC. That is why transports don't sound the same.
It's nothing to do with one getting a 'better read' of the disc than another.
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Post by dsjr on Aug 30, 2019 8:52:43 GMT
Most modern dacs even cheap ones have licked it I reckon and maybe only the wanky audiophile brands make an issue over it all in my opinion.
A cheap Denon CD player with SPDIF output will make a perfect player of discs and it's likely the internal dac will be ok as well (if listened to without knowing what it is). An inexpensive DVD player with SPDIF output may take longer to read a CD toc, and not all have front panel displays now, but as a disc reader, i doubt they're any different to a CD player these days and noise shouldn't be a huge issue if the dac is doing its job properly.
If you want to spend hundreds, then you're paying for a nice case and someone's pension pot contributions in all honesty.
Actually as a P.S. Can you actually GET a dedicated CD transport at sensible money these days? Luxury-Fi is just that - cheap innards dressed to the nines a lot of the time imo.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2019 10:29:30 GMT
What is a decent CD transport to go for these days? I am probably looking closer at the £500 to the £1k level, so I am guessing a CXC would be best? Well any CD player with digital outputs can be a transport. Why want a dedicaturd Transport! Another rip off tactic giving you half a CD player for double the money |
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Post by macca on Aug 30, 2019 11:27:26 GMT
Agree with Dave and Andre.
Any cd or DVD player that has discrete power supplies for the various functions will be just fine, so as long as you avoid the really low budget models you'll have a transport that will be indistinguishable from any high-end box of foo.
Personally I wouldn't even bother with the separate DAC unless you need a DAC for other digital sources too, then it makes some sense.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 30, 2019 15:00:59 GMT
I remember buying an Arcam 170 transport with discrete supplies to replace my Denon 1520 which was then being used as a transport. Differences were significant enough for me to enjoy one and not enjoy the other. A real lack of snap and focus with the loser. Surprisingly it was the 170 which got battered.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2019 15:02:33 GMT
But did you try both as transports?
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Post by antonio on Aug 30, 2019 15:26:38 GMT
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Post by macca on Aug 30, 2019 15:36:04 GMT
I did some transport testing with various cd players, BD players and DVD players some years ago and I agree there are differences and they are not difficult to hear.
if you see someone saying bits are bits and there can be no difference between transports then they need to go away and learn a bit more about how it all works.
There are also people who also think that all the transport does is read the disc and this leads them to equally incorrect conclusions.
No excuses these days, all the info is out there on the web, and is easily accessible for anyone who is interested. Suffice it to say that any competently engineered CD player is pretty much as good as it gets (cosmetic tweaks to the sound - hello Marantz and Rega! - withstanding ofc).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2019 15:41:51 GMT
Ah no worries wont be long now before CD is dead in the water
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2019 16:15:52 GMT
Ah no worries wont be long now before CD is dead in the water I’m sure they said that about vinyl 🤣🤣 |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 30, 2019 16:23:30 GMT
I’d have another 717 tomorrow. It’s a boring stand alone player though. Beautifully made and finished and a pleasure to use. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2019 16:36:33 GMT
I’d have another 717 tomorrow. It’s a boring stand alone player though. Beautifully made and finished and a pleasure to use. I have one. It works well enough, but doesn't sound as good as the PD-S505 Precision I use as a transport most of the time. |
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Post by dsjr on Aug 30, 2019 16:48:46 GMT
I did some transport testing with various cd players, BD players and DVD players some years ago and I agree there are differences and they are not difficult to hear. if you see someone saying bits are bits and there can be no difference between transports then they need to go away and learn a bit more about how it all works. There are also people who also think that all the transport does is read the disc and this leads them to equally incorrect conclusions. No excuses these days, all the info is out there on the web, and is easily accessible for anyone who is interested. Suffice it to say that any competently engineered CD player is pretty much as good as it gets (cosmetic tweaks to the sound - hello Marantz and Rega! - withstanding ofc). I've done a bit more homework and can tell you that if the dac is a typical 'High fidelity' bodge-up as so many were, then you can hear all manner of different things, not all of them imagined!
Modern dacs are much better sorted and popular cheaper CD players have better sorted digital outputs as jitter is now a thing of thepast for most makers. Simplified chip-sets leave a lot less for 'audiophile designers' to mess up imo.
Trouble is, all 'us' forum people are looking back to now ancient gear and regarding it as new. It bloody ain't I assure you and 'analogue' sounding digital gear now sounds as severely coloured as it really was, only our stereo's didn't reproduce it properly!
Just my vibe, but old stuff is just that - old - and not necessarily any good no matter how much it cost!
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Post by macca on Aug 30, 2019 17:00:29 GMT
Jitter has never been an issue Dave, even the first CD players had jitter way below audible levels. 80% of the hi-fi industry is bullshit and bollocks. The problem is people want to believe.
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Post by dsjr on Aug 30, 2019 17:30:31 GMT
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Post by macca on Aug 30, 2019 18:18:05 GMT
If that was true it would be true of pretty much every DAC they've reviewed on there. That one measures super perfect but all the others a way more than good enough. A point that has been made there more than once. Have you not experimented with different transports then? Personally I was surprised at the difference. As much difference as when using them as stand alone cd players. I had clear preferences. |
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Post by dsjr on Aug 30, 2019 18:56:23 GMT
Course I have in a former life - and it was a busy former life full of experiment and playing around with gear while I supposedly sold stuff at the same time  I did loads at home when I had the chance, but the last twenty odd years have seen a general sobering up (in every way - cough) and recently, a total re-evaluation of opinions, memories and sonic findings on so many things. Fortunately, although down on what they were, my ears aren't as bad as I thought and I can clearly hear tinsel from sweetness for example, as well as pressure waves caused by out of control bass units in inappropriate rooms with bass modes that give me headaches and the musicality of a good midrange. It's just some of these night and day differences I once thought I'd heard are as nothing compared to modern speaker errors and room matching and these days, it's this I cant tolerate at all! Makes the tiny 'difference' in a sodding CD spinner seem irrelevent to me, sorry... |
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Post by macca on Aug 30, 2019 19:02:46 GMT
Well I figured you must have but from the way you were talking...
I sort of feel the same way about the small stuff. But if the difference is enough that I notice it then it's still on the scorecard for me. I mean why use the one you like less even if the difference is small or maybe even imagined? And lots of little differences can add up to a big difference. Like the difference between wanting to listen to music on the system or switching on the telly instead.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2019 19:19:14 GMT
Hey pbj. Dont let me get into an argument over why i believe Vinyl is still produced & the reason why i believe people buy it |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2019 13:04:38 GMT
I currently have a PD-S703 and an Alpha 7SE. If any CD player is good enough, then I will stick with these.
I was just wondering if an Audiolab 6000CDT or Cambridge Audio CXC would make a good difference.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 31, 2019 14:07:59 GMT
I currently have a PD-S703 and an Alpha 7SE. If any CD player is good enough, then I will stick with these. I was just wondering if an Audiolab 6000CDT or Cambridge Audio CXC would make a good difference. I’d imagine the 703 would be very good. Can you hear differences between it and the Arcam? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2019 15:13:01 GMT
I have not tried the 7SE as a transport.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2019 19:31:10 GMT
Using my DAC with my modified Jolida JD100 CDP it makes absolutely no difference using the DAC, using the DAC with my other CDP's, it brings them all on par with the Jolida.
As always you never know until you have tried. Got the DAC - (Musical Fidelity XDAC V8, valve and solid state outputs, both sound identical, 3 line inputs and USB, decent power supply built in, no wall wart, and two auxiliary power outlets, a nice toy) and the other CDP's for a song so why not.
Might not be the latest in DAC's, but it is very musical, whatever that is ie. pleasant, easy to listen to for hours on end, and above all not irritating. I was never much of a fan of over tipped up detail.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 31, 2019 19:52:06 GMT
Oliver had a Jolida phono stage. I hadn’t heard of the brand before that but I liked what I saw when I read up on them.
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I did loads at home when I had the chance, but the last twenty odd years have seen a general sobering up (in every way - cough) and recently, a total re-evaluation of opinions, memories and sonic findings on so many things. Fortunately, although down on what they were, my ears aren't as bad as I thought and I can clearly hear tinsel from sweetness for example, as well as pressure waves caused by out of control bass units in inappropriate rooms with bass modes that give me headaches and the musicality of a good midrange. It's just some of these night and day differences I once thought I'd heard are as nothing compared to modern speaker errors and room matching and these days, it's this I cant tolerate at all! Makes the tiny 'difference' in a sodding CD spinner seem irrelevent to me, sorry...