Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 3, 2019 12:42:39 GMT
I’m just curious to hear of anybody’s experience or shared knowledge. They seem to be excellent value, the passive and phono stages look nice inside and out.
Giant killers? Great value? Moddable? I’d just love to hear more. Anybody know much about the maker?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2019 13:15:43 GMT
I had the second version of the passive pre-amp. I didn't think much of it, it sounded bland to me.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2019 13:18:17 GMT
I had the second version of the passive pre-amp. I didn't think much of it, it sounded bland to me. Even old sods can hear differences. I'm impressed.  S. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2019 13:18:22 GMT
Never heard one. I think it's pretty hard to do a bad job of a passive. All down to pot or switch and resistor quality.
Being a less is more kind of guy then i would be looking for something as simple as possible.
I am not looking forward to the day i have to wire in a SA and source selector switch to my set up. With just a fixed resistor potential divider and no switches of any kind idon't think it can get any better than that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2019 15:01:39 GMT
The passives are good value considering its well made in a nice case. Of course you can make cheaper yourself, but not much. (and their soldering is better than mine)
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2019 15:20:22 GMT
The £25 Little Bear passive sounds better. I've compared them.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2019 17:19:52 GMT
The £25 Little Bear passive sounds better. I've compared them. The tisbury is looking a bit pricey in comparison to that... can’t be much more than a basic pot in that LIttle bear at that price though, the tisburys used stepped attenuators AFAIK |
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Post by dsjr on Aug 3, 2019 17:46:41 GMT
The Tisbury passive uses a Chinese mini stepped attenuator. I bought a couple to try in my home made passive (before I was given a broken AP20 case to make my own P50 'clone').
Believe me or not as it's a personal subjective opinion, but I found in comparison, the cheap plastic film pots NVA use *did* seem to sound slightly clearer and with better reproduction of reverb from disc to disc played. For some reason, the stepped controls a la Tisbury, seemed to dilute this and make the sound appear slightly more bland and 'greyer' and less interesting. Now, this was sighted and subjective, so no real merit in those observations and of course, the attenuator channel balance was pretty damned perfect on the bottom steps (a failing on the little film pot). From memory, I used 10k Log as the value.
If you can buy a two input? passive for £25 and it's ok, then nothing UK made can compete. I'm too attached to all the NVA P20's I made (pretty well all of them up to now) which were hard wired with no circuit board. These made next to nothing at £100 once boxes and shipping was taken into account (I won't say how much per box I was paid but you'd be horrified - and it only really worked as doable when making batches of twenty or thirty at a time).
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Post by macca on Aug 3, 2019 18:30:02 GMT
I had a borrow of the original one years ago. Off of Jerry. That was what got me into passives. Amazing clarity and lack of distortion were the plus sides, on the minus side lacking impact and bass. Although results will vary depending on what power amp you use, and what interconnects. But - A P90SA with same interconnects and power amp was much better (albeit at 6 times the money).
So not all passives are equal, they aren't just a pot in a box. Even though they are.
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Post by dsjr on Aug 3, 2019 20:43:17 GMT
The shunt attenuator into NVA amps did add just a touch of bass authority I thought.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 3, 2019 20:51:01 GMT
Stepped atenuator? I didn’t realise. Probably a bonus to many but I can’t tolerate the things.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2019 23:41:02 GMT
I just don't like them.
Something about the brand turns me right off and I don't know why or what it is.
I spoke to the owner a while back and arranged a loan-for-review of his phonostage, which never materialised.
Seemed like a genuine fella and said all the right things but the sound is bland. No drive, no sparkle just all a bit meh.
Never bothered after that.
Reminded me of the time I loaned a Goldpoint SA passive pre from a friend who'd bought it from Marco (AoS)
It was tricked out to the max. Zfoils, pure silver wiring, WBT Rca sockets, silver solder. The whole nine yards.
I plugged it in and felt my ears wince. At the same time it was mind blowingly transparent and blew the slagle away in terms of "open window" into the recording.
It was just a bit edgy, a bit harsh and glared at times. It lasted about 2 days and I put my slagle back in a sent it back to my mate. It just didn't work for me.
I had valves too at that time so hard, edgy and glaring was very hard to achieve lol.
I had to move the slagle on too because I realised I could do far better.
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Post by macca on Aug 4, 2019 6:40:48 GMT
Could that not be down to your speakers though Ollie? They're not the most polite things I ever heard - sort of the diametric opposite of Harbeths. The KSA100 sounds somewhat smoother here than it does at your place.
Although I was not keen on the Goldpoint either. Too thin sounding. I suspect Marco had optimised the sound for his system with all the mods he did to it. It didn't make me wince although we were using it into a restored Dynaco valve amp that was on the 'cuddly' side of neutral.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 10:56:32 GMT
Could that not be down to your speakers though Ollie? They're not the most polite things I ever heard - sort of the diametric opposite of Harbeths. The KSA100 sounds somewhat smoother here than it does at your place. Although I was not keen on the Goldpoint either. Too thin sounding. I suspect Marco had optimised the sound for his system with all the mods he did to it. It didn't make me wince although we were using it into a restored Dynaco valve amp that was on the 'cuddly' side of neutral. I don't know Macca. The speakers can get a bit raucous and if pushed to loud they can harden a bit but I want listening loudly when I tried it. I think they are actually very honest with things like reflective sounds in recording and they are "quick" sounding compared to others I've heard. I suppose it could be grip or anything that was to blame but that's what we do isn't it, attribute blame to the component we put in the existing system. Anyway, stop picking on my speakers! lol |
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Post by dsjr on Aug 4, 2019 12:07:42 GMT
I think *some people* need to visit more shows, bake-offs and HiFi shops to hear what others are doing. That way you can go home and either relax into the far better sound you're getting at home as I once did, or obtain a better reference as to where the home system and room needs to go, as I need to do now.
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Post by karma67 on Aug 4, 2019 12:14:56 GMT
thats something i think i need to concentrate more on,i only have my ears telling me what i think sounds right
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 12:22:25 GMT
Shows are great. The stuff I could buy sounds no better than mine, and the high end stuff tends to sound extremely average. I go away more than happy with my system as a result
Bake offs are a different animal. Occasionally you hear something that either lives up to its price or massively outperforms expectations ... then the problems (and man maths) start 🤣
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 12:41:00 GMT
I think *some people* need to visit more shows, bake-offs and HiFi shops to hear what others are doing. That way you can go home and either relax into the far better sound you're getting at home as I once did, or obtain a better reference as to where the home system and room needs to go, as I need to do now. That's a very good idea. I spent a couple of years listening to everything I could, anywhere I could get an invite lol. There comes a point that either A) You can't afford to buy that one little thing that would improve your system Or B) What you are hearing at shows, bakeoffs or visits, doesn't do what you want it to so you stop going out lol. What going out listening does, is give you direction. You don't know what you want untill you hear it and you certainly won't know how to get the sound you want without hearing what's out there. Ultimately, both A and B happened to me. I am at the point where improvements are hard to come by at anything like a price I can afford. Sure, I could probably get better speakers but which ones? How much is the improvement gonna cost? I bet the cost is astronomical to beat the Pioneers. There's only two pairs of speakers I've heard that I'd buy. Maccas JMLabs and a pair of £11k JBLs that were as big as me (6'4) I've heard speakers costing £40k and I wouldn't swap mine for them. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 4, 2019 12:43:43 GMT
I must say the Omeg pot in the NVA passives sounds very good to me. It was said to cost £1 when bought in bulk, but I think I paid under £3 each when I bought three of them.
Using one of these, you could probably build your own hard wired passive with a few inputs and a couple of outputs for about £25 inc case. If I find a case I like, I will take this route when I have spare time.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 4, 2019 13:02:57 GMT
I think *some people* need to visit more shows, bake-offs and HiFi shops to hear what others are doing. That way you can go home and either relax into the far better sound you're getting at home as I once did, or obtain a better reference as to where the home system and room needs to go, as I need to do now. That's a very good idea. I spent a couple of years listening to everything I could, anywhere I could get an invite lol. There comes a point that either A) You can't afford to buy that one little thing that would improve your system Or B) What you are hearing at shows, bakeoffs or visits, doesn't do what you want it to so you stop going out lol. What going out listening does, is give you direction. You don't know what you want untill you hear it and you certainly won't know how to get the sound you want without hearing what's out there. Ultimately, both A and B happened to me. I am at the point where improvements are hard to come by at anything like a price I can afford. Sure, I could probably get better speakers but which ones? How much is the improvement gonna cost? I bet the cost is astronomical to beat the Pioneers. There's only two pairs of speakers I've heard that I'd buy. Maccas JMLabs and a pair of £11k JBLs that were as big as me (6'4) I've heard speakers costing £40k and I wouldn't swap mine for them. There’s a lot of sense in that. I’ve reached a point where I’m loving my music and not evaluating the system at all. I don’t need to hear other stuff because I have no intention of changing. I’m not sure if it could be bettered and what I’d have to spend, I do know it couldn’t make me any happier than I am though, so I’m sticking. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 13:10:50 GMT
That's a very good idea. I spent a couple of years listening to everything I could, anywhere I could get an invite lol. There comes a point that either A) You can't afford to buy that one little thing that would improve your system Or B) What you are hearing at shows, bakeoffs or visits, doesn't do what you want it to so you stop going out lol. What going out listening does, is give you direction. You don't know what you want untill you hear it and you certainly won't know how to get the sound you want without hearing what's out there. Ultimately, both A and B happened to me. I am at the point where improvements are hard to come by at anything like a price I can afford. Sure, I could probably get better speakers but which ones? How much is the improvement gonna cost? I bet the cost is astronomical to beat the Pioneers. There's only two pairs of speakers I've heard that I'd buy. Maccas JMLabs and a pair of £11k JBLs that were as big as me (6'4) I've heard speakers costing £40k and I wouldn't swap mine for them. There’s a lot of sense in that. I’ve reached a point where I’m loving my music and not evaluating the system at all. I don’t need to hear other stuff because I have no intention of changing. I’m not sure if it could be bettered and what I’d have to spend, I do know it couldn’t make me any happier than I am though, so I’m sticking. In my very humble opinion, I've heard phenomally priced systems. I'm talking nearly half a million pounds of digital playback, speakers and a purpose built, acoustically treated room designed to get the very best of out whatever system the guy plonks in there. Kef Blades, Yd Audios (I think that's the name) Simaudios TOTL gear, Chords TOTL gear, Dynavectors TOTL gear etc. He's got the lot. I came away thinking "I wouldn't swap ANYTHING I have here, for anything he had there, that I heard. That includes the humble raspberry pi! What I have done is got to the point where I can estimate fairly well what someone's system is going to sound like. I know who listens to the same music as I and who has the same goals for their replay. I listen to those guys and gradually I gave got to this point of ownership and now, I think I equally influence their listening with my gear. I've done what I want to, done it how I wanted to and now I'm off on another path with tge DIY stuff. I love it lol. |
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Post by antonio on Aug 4, 2019 14:07:15 GMT
Having heard Kef Blades and YG Acoustics, there must have certainly been something wrong elsewhere in the chain.
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Post by macca on Aug 4, 2019 14:28:57 GMT
I think *some people* need to visit more shows, bake-offs and HiFi shops to hear what others are doing. That way you can go home and either relax into the far better sound you're getting at home as I once did, or obtain a better reference as to where the home system and room needs to go, as I need to do now. That's a very good idea. I spent a couple of years listening to everything I could, anywhere I could get an invite lol. There comes a point that either A) You can't afford to buy that one little thing that would improve your system Or B) What you are hearing at shows, bakeoffs or visits, doesn't do what you want it to so you stop going out lol. What going out listening does, is give you direction. You don't know what you want untill you hear it and you certainly won't know how to get the sound you want without hearing what's out there. Ultimately, both A and B happened to me. I am at the point where improvements are hard to come by at anything like a price I can afford. Sure, I could probably get better speakers but which ones? How much is the improvement gonna cost? I bet the cost is astronomical to beat the Pioneers. There's only two pairs of speakers I've heard that I'd buy. Maccas JMLabs and a pair of £11k JBLs that were as big as me (6'4) I've heard speakers costing £40k and I wouldn't swap mine for them. Any of the classic standmount JBL 4 series or L series would do exactly what you like that your Pioneers do, but quite a bit better. But yeah, I know, money. Anyway you could have a borrow of my B&O MC120.2 if you like theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?43467-FS-B-amp-O-MC120-2-speakers-with-integrated-standsMight help to have a more neutral set of speakers on hand for developing audio equipment? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 14:34:25 GMT
That's a very good idea. I spent a couple of years listening to everything I could, anywhere I could get an invite lol. There comes a point that either A) You can't afford to buy that one little thing that would improve your system Or B) What you are hearing at shows, bakeoffs or visits, doesn't do what you want it to so you stop going out lol. What going out listening does, is give you direction. You don't know what you want untill you hear it and you certainly won't know how to get the sound you want without hearing what's out there. Ultimately, both A and B happened to me. I am at the point where improvements are hard to come by at anything like a price I can afford. Sure, I could probably get better speakers but which ones? How much is the improvement gonna cost? I bet the cost is astronomical to beat the Pioneers. There's only two pairs of speakers I've heard that I'd buy. Maccas JMLabs and a pair of £11k JBLs that were as big as me (6'4) I've heard speakers costing £40k and I wouldn't swap mine for them. Any of the classic standmount JBL 4 series or L series would do exactly what you like that your Pioneers do, but quite a bit better. But yeah, I know, money. Anyway you could have a borrow of my B&O MC120.2 if you like theartofsound.net/forum/showthread.php?43467-FS-B-amp-O-MC120-2-speakers-with-integrated-standsMight help to have a more neutral set of speakers on hand for developing audio equipment? OK, I'll have a loan. Thanks. I will have a drive up this week sometime and grab and go. I'll drop you a message. |
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Post by macca on Aug 4, 2019 14:36:01 GMT
No probs.
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Post by antonio on Aug 4, 2019 15:27:45 GMT
I like the look of those B & O speakers.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2019 17:02:42 GMT
Having heard Kef Blades and YG Acoustics, there must have certainly been something wrong elsewhere in the chain. I still maintain it was the Chord amp |
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Post by antonio on Aug 5, 2019 4:37:53 GMT
^^^^^^ There you have it then.  |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 5, 2019 14:16:49 GMT
Never heard one. I think it's pretty hard to do a bad job of a passive. All down to pot or switch and resistor quality. Being a less is more kind of guy then i would be looking for something as simple as possible. I am not looking forward to the day i have to wire in a SA and source selector switch to my set up. With just a fixed resistor potential divider and no switches of any kind idon't think it can get any better than that. Sorry I missed this earlier. I’ve had some shocking sounding passives.worst of all was the Moth one. Piss poor. Anyone tried the tizzy phono? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2019 21:53:30 GMT
Still got an original RATA [Russ Andrews] single channel jobbie from the 90's.. Uses Sfernice 'PII VYN' Linear Pot +LFR Vishay metal film Resistors. Not used it donkies years
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