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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2019 14:45:45 GMT
Just take a look at the prices in 2019! Forget about the higher end equipment, we all know how fucking ridiculously expensive they cost. Even the entry level stuff are getting painfully pricey!
Roksan Kandy K3 Integrated - £1,300.
Heed Elixir - £999.
Rega Brio - £600. Better value buying second hand.
The new Claymore Integrated - £1,400.
Ophidian Minimo Speakers - £600-£700
Ophidian Mojo Speakers - £950-£1000.
God give me strength!
S.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2019 15:21:33 GMT
I guess it depends on what you mean by 'entry level'. At Richer Sounds, you can get a Marantz amp and CD player, and Mission floorstanding speakers for £350 each, so just over a grand all-in. And those are by no means the cheapest models they sell.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2019 15:39:18 GMT
I guess it depends on what you mean by 'entry level'. At Richer Sounds, you can get a Marantz amp and CD player, and Mission floorstanding speakers for £350 each, so just over a grand all-in. And those are by no means the cheapest models they sell. I'd class those as 'lower tier' entry level, lol. S.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2019 15:45:25 GMT
I did some sums. When I bought my first 'proper' hifi way back in 1982, it cost me just under a grand (from memory; £250 for turntable/arm/cartridge; £300 for integrated amp; £350 for speakers. Cables were free) Adjusted for inflation, that would be just over £3000 at today's prices, so not far off the prices you quote. Then, as now, you could go lower by shopping around.
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Post by macca on Jun 29, 2019 16:29:43 GMT
Wharfedale Diamond 9 are fifty quid at Richer. That's half what the original Diamond cost 30 years ago IIRC. If you think those rinky-dink Ophidian speakers will be worth the extra £700 then good luck. Hi-fi has never been cheaper in real terms if you avoid the boutique 'highly reviewed' stuff. And then you've got the massive second-hand market if you want something fancier without spending silly money. It's a golden age.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 29, 2019 18:55:57 GMT
There is beer budget stuff around that is silly cheap. Upgrading to something well built and with a bit of cachet seems to cost a lot. Then there’s the high end which seems to be the “how high” end.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2019 20:58:36 GMT
Westie, now I understand why you like buying second hand/used equipment etc. Plus, as you always say ''if the price is right''
S.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 29, 2019 21:17:00 GMT
Westie, now I understand why you like buying second hand/used equipment etc. Plus, as you always say ''if the price is right'' S. Most of my box swapping has been driven by bargain prices. You do need a pot of available cash but the money just gets recycled and you don’t have to sell what you have. It’s was my biggest problem earlier in life. I had to sell what ihad and gamble on my next purchase being better. I can’t stress how wrong this approach is if you can avoid it. I’d say to anyone, get a grand or whatever you feel is right as a fighting fund. Don’t sell what you have, just wait fir bargains you fancy. When you sell, you may end up with a growing fund if you’ve really got bargains in the first place. Your hifi will never go backwards because you only change when you get abetter sound.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2019 21:44:00 GMT
My worry is who will buy this stuff at the silly RRPs so there will be second hand gear available in 10-20 years? The new Tannoy Cheviots are 5k+.... don’t see many people buying them these days, so the odds of picking a pair up for a grand in 10 years is pretty small.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2019 22:07:28 GMT
Why worry? The good vintage stuff we use now will probably be cared for and still be available years from now.
I'd bet the new Tannoy Cheviot Legacy speakers will have a limited lifespan, with ferrofluid tulip waveguide tweeter coils drying out and cone surrounds failing, whereas many of the classic Tannoys from the seventies we enjoy at the moment, with the pleated cone surrounds and pepperpot tweeter horns will likely still be going strong.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 29, 2019 22:24:24 GMT
It’s a dying industry and all that will be left are the hifi version of antiques. Wireless, computer audio and multi room have already dealt the killer blows. I’m just glad to have lived in a golden age.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2019 22:31:29 GMT
It’s a dying industry and all that will be left are the hifi version of antiques. Wireless, computer audio and multi room have already dealt the killer blows. I’m just glad to have lived in a golden age. Well the demand for proper Hi-Fi may well contract and it will probably become more specialised, with small makers catering to the bespoke market at a premium, but I think real Hi-Fi will carry on and no doubt the more skint end of the hobby will be offered products.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 29, 2019 22:35:35 GMT
I did some sums. When I bought my first 'proper' hifi way back in 1982, it cost me just under a grand (from memory; £250 for turntable/arm/cartridge; £300 for integrated amp; £350 for speakers. Cables were free) Adjusted for inflation, that would be just over £3000 at today's prices, so not far off the prices you quote. Then, as now, you could go lower by shopping around. Of course I know you’re right, but it just doesn’t feel that way. I guess it’s exactly the same as my aunts, uncles and grandparents who used to tell when you could buy sweets and get change from a penny. I’m guessing Rega 3, Onix OA21/Audiolab 8000a and EposES14/ MA852?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2019 6:37:53 GMT
No. AR turntable, Rega tonearm, Linn K9 cartridge; Nytech CA252; Mordaunt-Short MS20. The turntable and tonearm are still with me, as are the speakers, though the speakers are a bit knackered and live in a cupboard.
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Post by pauld on Jul 1, 2019 12:08:10 GMT
It is my view that people are generally greedier and more self obsessed than ever these days, that is why things are more expensive.
We as a race are basically killing ourselves through stupidity, look at the hours people are now 'expected' to put in, plus all of the stress.
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Post by macca on Jul 1, 2019 12:25:52 GMT
I keep reading comments like that but I don't see any real evidence for it. I suppose Veblen goods have become more popular, hi-fi ones included. But by definition you have to be seriously wealthy and a bit shallow to be forking out for Veblen goods and those people only make up a tiny sub-set of society and an even tinier subset of hifi enthusiasts.
What there still seems to be a lot of is people who assume that price correlates with performance. I still see comments like 'You won't get a good sound with a component that only cost £XXX you need to spend £XXXX to do justice to your set-up.' No thought given to whether that extra 'X' on the price is actually reflected in the quality of the product, they just assume that as it costs a lot more it must be better. That's only true occasionally.
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Post by pauld on Jul 1, 2019 13:00:56 GMT
What there still seems to be a lot of is people who assume that price correlates with performance. I still see comments like 'You won't get a good sound with a component that only cost £XXX you need to spend £XXXX to do justice to your set-up.' No thought given to whether that extra 'X' on the price is actually reflected in the quality of the product, they just assume that as it costs a lot more it must be better. That's only true occasionally. I completely agree with you on this, Martin. A good example of this I always use is that in the days of Plasma TVs, B&O were selling a TV which sold for around £5,000, and whilst it was very pretty because it had the usual styling that B&O add, the screen they used was made by Pioneer and you could buy the exactly the same screen in the usual retail stores like Curry's etc. for around £1,000, so styling and brand name was costing you an additional £4,000!! Brand market value has a lot to do with cost and also the percentage of revenue chooses to earn from the sale. The larger brands with a stronger place in the market generally charge a darn site more than a less well known brand, but all you are paying for then is the name. It is marketing at its best (or worst maybe?).
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Post by macca on Jul 1, 2019 13:26:25 GMT
In the case of the B&O telly you are getting the name and the styling. And there are people out there who can afford to think nothing of dropping the extra 4 grand to get that. But 99.99 percent of us are not that wealthy.
Don't get me wrong you can't get the really good gear on the cheap, because you can't make really good gear on the cheap. It's impossible. But there's a limit to how good something can be no matter how much money you chuck at the parts, design, construction. Most 'high end' kit goes way beyond that now. I don't have a problem with that, as long as it is still possible to buy quality gear for reasonable money, which I think it is. Radford Revival being a good example. Okay there is (unsurprisingly) a waiting list but you're getting a new amp that will compete with anything at any price for under three grand.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2019 13:26:59 GMT
I think the key point is that entry-level hifi is actually more affordable than ever. At the very high-end, prices are simply insane, but then only insane people (and millionaires) would think of blowing six-figure sums on speakers, or five-figure sums on cables. It's become a game, really; company A sells a component that's much more expensive than anything similar sold by rival companies. These companies then worry that their products look 'too cheap', so they in turn introduce 'flagship' models that up the ante still further. If they're really smart they stick a 'limited edition' label on to generate demand. And so it goes. Meanwhile, further down the food chain, stuff gets ever (relatively) cheaper and more reliable.
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Post by macca on Jul 1, 2019 13:49:10 GMT
The danger is the middle ground disappears and you end up with a choice between cheap kit that is competent but nothing special, and the properly good stuff which is priced way beyond what anyone normal could dream of paying.
Although even if we end up with that situation there is still fifty years worth of used gear out there for those who want that little bit of extra quality without the crazy price tag. And there will always be a niche market for those bucking the trend and offering quality at sane prices.
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