Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 1, 2019 11:55:51 GMT
Worked for a courier company for 12 years, I can safely say even without looking that neither item was sufficiently well-packed. Simple as that. It's pretty easy to break most turntables just in the normal course of shipping. They are so fragile. You don't have to do anything deliberate like play football with the parcel. Packing has to be way more than bomb-proof unless it is something very sturdy like an SL1200. Then it just needs to be bomb-proof.  We have business customers who have extraordinary amounts of breakage. What happens then is that we go out (well not me personally) and inspect their packaging. In every case bar one I know of, their packaging has been insufficient for the contents to survive normal transit. The one exception was a wine merchant. Hardly any of his shipments were getting through. So they went out to tell him how to pack properly. He insisted there was no issue with his packaging and it got a bit heated. To prove the point he took a box with 6 bottles of wine in it up to the top of a long flight of stairs and dropped it down. It bounced off of every step. All 6 bottles were undamaged. At that point they went back to the drawing board. Turned out someone was nicking the wine at the sorting hub and reporting the shipments as damaged and disposed of. I’d disagree in the case of the Xerxes, and I HAVE seen the packing. I also know the deck as well as anyone. This is an exceptional case like I’ve never seen before. If you dislodge the motor and bounce the grommets out of the deck, when the whole thing is in a wooden crate, stripped down and surrounded by high impact foam, you are doing an extraordinary job. Looks like the main bearing spindle is also bent. How you do that with external force is beyond my comprehension. It was lifted up, supported and taped down. The plywood crate adds weight but I can only surmise that gravitational force of some height would be needed. Or it was all fucked up before it was packed but I highly doubt that. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2019 11:58:24 GMT
That's a shame Andrew.
I agree with Martin though. Turntables are tricky to pack well and most people simply don't have a clue.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 1, 2019 12:02:04 GMT
The TransRotor wasn’t packed the way I would’ve done it, I can see how that damage was avoidable. Lids are also high risk. I prefer to separate them and put them in their own box.You NEVER want to pack in a way that force can be applied to the centre of the lid top.
With the TransRotor, the seller stripped the deck down. His mistake was packing all the bits (in thick bubble wrap inside the lid space. I guess the box had been slammed down on end and the weight of the bit smoving against the side panel shattered it.
Reasonably careful handling would’ve avoided damage though. I’ve had far worse packed stuff arrive intact, including many turntables and lids.
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Post by dsjr on Jun 1, 2019 12:23:41 GMT
Damn - for you as well as me, as I have decks to shift pretty soon...
UPS via Interparcel seem pretty good and NVA have used them for many years with disputes usually settled without fuss. My BMU which had been sent back to Sidcup before being whisked into my car, had fatigued packaging, the heavy unit sliding around in the large outer box. Fortunately no damage but it could have been a lot worse, as I witnessed with a better packed 'loan' example later on..
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Post by antonio on Jun 1, 2019 12:44:17 GMT
My Technics SL150 which arrived the other day was very well packed, I even contacted the seller through ebay to let him know and that it had arrived safely.
Very sorry Westie to hear of you delivery problems. I really like the look of your Transrotor so sorry the lid has been broken. I assume you know of a supplier for the lid, the question has been asked on various forums.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2019 12:47:13 GMT
Have to say the only turntable I've had to receive damage, was a Toshiba SR 370 which arrived with the feet smashed to bits and the cover cracked. Hardly surprising when the packaging simply wasn't sufficiently strong enough for the weight involved. I shook my head at it. The seller offered a partial refund but it never materialized and I didn't bother chasing it up.
Oh there was an STD deck where the inner platter had escaped from the bearing and the top plate was marked. The seller had removed the outer platter and it was under the base, but the tape he put on to secure the inner platter wasn't strong enough and the sub-chassis wasn't secure leaving the arm and cartridge to bounce around. The cartridge guard was smashed and I still don't know if the cartridge (Audio Technica AT-32) is ok or not. The cover also was damaged. The deck, arm and cartridge was really cheap (I only got it for the Mission 774 arm) so I didn't bother contacting the seller. It was packed relatively well, it was just unfortunate he hadn't thought to secure the sub-chassis.
I've had a Denon come from Japan and a Braun from Germany without any problems. I've also had a number of Technics SL-P1200/1300 cds which aren't light, arrive ok. One was from Italy with s less than rigid box and tape just about strong enough to secure the contents and the 1300s came from the USA, again without any damage.
Maybe I've just been lucky.
Must be pretty disappointing when it happens when you're really looking forward for something to arrive.
The Audioromy amp I got recently weighs a ton; I really struggle to lift it, arrived safely too.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2019 13:19:32 GMT
The last GL75 I had sent, arrived looking as though an elephant had sat on it. Fortunately, I didn't want the now smashed lid and arm and managed to coax a decent part refund from the seller after some prodding (well it was his fault!).
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 1, 2019 15:43:44 GMT
Anyone have any idea how this could happen to a working Xerxes with the sub platter lifted, supported and still taped down on arrival?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2019 15:46:20 GMT
Sorry to hear that, Westie. The courier workers who damage the goods deserve to have their limbs painfully dislocated!
I don't mind shipping small dinky amps/speakers. But larger heavier items are a big no-no!
S.
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 1, 2019 15:52:19 GMT
Now have a look at the packing, a wooden crate with feet. Air pockets on the top. Outer platter removed and boxed, PSUs removed and boxed. All sundries removed and boxed. The deck surrounded in 30mm Ethafoam (the stuff NVA use). Then look at the dislodged motor. You can also see the sub platter which appears wrecked on the video is still taped down. The blobs have been bounced out of place and the top plate has subsided. Hard to see on a black deck. Packing was bomb proof but it’s still wrecked.    flip a coin website |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2019 15:57:03 GMT
Cringe!
S.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2019 15:59:52 GMT
Those big bubble air pockets are only suitable for light items. I generally use expanded polystyrene insulation board and small bubble wrap for heavier items, plus double boxing sometimes. Never had anything I've sent get damaged,
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 1, 2019 16:02:32 GMT
And here’s the non functioning PSU.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 1, 2019 16:03:59 GMT
Those big bubble air pockets are only suitable for light items. I generally use expanded polystyrene insulation board and small bubble wrap for heavier items, plus double boxing sometimes. Never had anything I've sent get damaged, Yes but that was only on the top. And they didn’t fail. Everything else was either removed and boxed or surrounded by the best foam you can buy, |
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 1, 2019 16:07:51 GMT
On a happier note, even with the damage, I love having this around:  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2019 16:14:42 GMT
Was that turntable deigned by a bimbo?
S.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 1, 2019 16:54:38 GMT
Damn - for you as well as me, as I have decks to shift pretty soon... UPS via Interparcel seem pretty good and NVA have used them for many years with disputes usually settled without fuss. My BMU which had been sent back to Sidcup before being whisked into my car, had fatigued packaging, the heavy unit sliding around in the large outer box. Fortunately no damage but it could have been a lot worse, as I witnessed with a better packed 'loan' example later on.. The good thing is that they always pay out. UPS have wrecked as much as any courier though, I’ve had a few with clear malicious damage. Boxes that have been kicked are common. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 1, 2019 17:01:27 GMT
This is the broken lid. I doubt even acrylic weld would hide the break. I am wondering about having the side piece remade rather than the whole lid. Getting the existing parts of the broken side to separate may be a challenge though.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2019 17:23:22 GMT
Anyone have any idea how this could happen to a working Xerxes with the sub platter lifted, supported and still taped down on arrival? If it was dropped on it's sides, front or back from a distance, the inertia from the overall weight might do that. And the impact could have damaged the PCB in the power supply. The actual weight and rigidity of the wooden case, could have worked against it. Does the case show any signs of impact? |
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Post by dsjr on Jun 1, 2019 17:30:41 GMT
I don't know who makes the NVA cases (near Dartford these days I think), but it may be possible to remove the back panel and replace it if the cover is glued up. Anglia Plastics used to be able to do things too, but no idea what they do now - the current perspex cases are far superior.
Did you see a vid of the deck working before you bought it? The inner hub should have been removed totally really.
No idea today, but Roksan years ago had a stock of traded-in Xerxes decks (Touraj offered me one, but twonk here never took him up on it  ). Just sayin' if you need any good used spares... |
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 1, 2019 17:45:37 GMT
I don't know who makes the NVA cases (near Dartford these days I think), but it may be possible to remove the back panel and replace it if the cover is glued up. Anglia Plastics used to be able to do things too, but no idea what they do now - the current perspex cases are far superior. Did you see a vid of the deck working before you bought it? The inner hub should have been removed totally really. No idea today, but Roksan years ago had a stock of traded-in Xerxes decks (Touraj offered me one, but twonk here never took him up on it ). Just sayin' if you need any good used spares... i didn’t see the working, but you rarely do on eBay tbh. I requested a full refund because I can’t be sure if the motor or PSU are buggered too, it’s just too much hassle to try and get it going. The arm looks ok, but it’s a Tabriz which are utter tat imo and it has Isoda cable which is the single worst cable on planet Earth. I’d planned to move the arm on and keep the deck. When the arm looks like the only thing worth salvaging, it’s a non-starter for me. Sorry for the seller, but that’s how EBay works. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 1, 2019 17:47:35 GMT
Anyone have any idea how this could happen to a working Xerxes with the sub platter lifted, supported and still taped down on arrival? If it was dropped on it's sides, front or back from a distance, the inertia from the overall weight might do that. And the impact could have damaged the PCB in the power supply. The actual weight and rigidity of the wooden case, could have worked against it. Does the case show any signs of impact? That’s my thoughts too. I’d personally never have used a wooden crate. Gravity is a bastard for hifi as is is for humans and a heavy rigid box can only increase the shock. A fall from a few feet can break bone so a thin bearing spindle is toast from a large fall. The ethafoam has done its job protecting the edges and corners but it can’t protect innards. I can’t see any signs of impact but if it landed flat, I guess I wouldn’t. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 1, 2019 18:54:14 GMT
I did have one other purchase. An Arcam Alpha 5 CD player for £5 plus £10 post. It works, it’s in good nick, it has a remote and a decent interconnect and Parcelforce didn’t destroy it! Sounds as poor as any CD player I recall hearing though I’ve had a bit of a bad run with eBay purchases and my Nad 521 stopped reading disks after just a couple of hours use, back it went for a refund and the Alpha 5 was too cheap to refuse. Sadly it’s too crap to listen to. I will likely swap it with a mate as part of a future deal. No way I’m eBaying and shipping it after recent events. I would’ve posted a pic, but it’s as interesting as a plunger, |
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Post by dsjr on Jun 1, 2019 19:02:22 GMT
Les W used to breathe life into the Alpha 5. We sold loads of the '6' upgrade after comparative dems. One thing though, the transport (CD-M9) is arguably the best tracker Philips ever made, especially in the Arcam utilisation. We had a badly scratched copy of Miles Davis 'Tutu' and most machines wouldn't play the bad section at all. Other CD-M9 machines tried but glitched badly on the way, but the Alpha 5 and 6 tracked it almost flawlessly (maybe they were interpolating furiously for all I know).
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 1, 2019 19:19:09 GMT
Les W used to breathe life into the Alpha 5. We sold loads of the '6' upgrade after comparative dems. One thing though, the transport (CD-M9) is arguably the best tracker Philips ever made, especially in the Arcam utilisation. We had a badly scratched copy of Miles Davis 'Tutu' and most machines wouldn't play the bad section at all. Other CD-M9 machines tried but glitched badly on the way, but the Alpha 5 and 6 tracked it almost flawlessly (maybe they were interpolating furiously for all I know). I do have a Micromega Duo sitting in it’s box. Might be worth getting it wired up as a DAC with the 5. I’d expected to like it as is, because it’s a TDA 1541 machine and I knew Les W saw enough in them to warrant mods. The original Alpha was a listenable player of somewhat limited. I’d expected an evolution but the 5 is way off. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2019 5:38:16 GMT
I did have one other purchase. An Arcam Alpha 5 CD player for £5 plus £10 post. It works, it’s in good nick, it has a remote and a decent interconnect and Parcelforce didn’t destroy it! Sounds as poor as any CD player I recall hearing though I’ve had a bit of a bad run with eBay purchases and my Nad 521 stopped reading disks after just a couple of hours use, back it went for a refund and the Alpha 5 was too cheap to refuse. Sadly it’s too crap to listen to. I will likely swap it with a mate as part of a future deal. No way I’m eBaying and shipping it after recent events. I would’ve posted a pic, but it’s as interesting as a plunger, I remember the Alpha cdp's. If i had to sum them up in one word it would be ....dull. I auditioned half a dozen cdp's back in 1997 and an alpha9 ? was one of them. Ended up leaving with a Naim CD3.5  and the rest is history. (Poor thing) |
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 2, 2019 6:33:38 GMT
Arcam are a bit of an odd company. Lots of great reviews over the years and yet not a single product that made the world a better place. They epitomise mediocrity.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2019 8:04:46 GMT
Arcam are a bit of an odd company. Lots of great reviews over the years and yet not a single product that made the world a better place. They epitomise mediocrity. I like that. Bang on! |
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Post by macca on Jun 2, 2019 9:59:09 GMT
There was the A&R A60. Although I know Geoff is not keen on that one either. But it is a cheap and competent amp, and fun to listen to in the right context. But otherwise I agree, I lump them in with Rega and Cyrus. Mid-priced, middling performance, why bother? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 2, 2019 10:09:21 GMT
There was the A&R A60. Although I know Geoff is not keen on that one either. But it is a cheap and competent amp, and fun to listen to in the right context. But otherwise I agree, I lump them in with Rega and Cyrus. Mid-priced, middling performance, why bother? Nothing wrong as such with the A60. It was OK for the money then and still is now at its second hand prices, but I find it about as involving as say the Quad 33/303 combo, i.e., not very. |
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). Just sayin' if you need any good used spares...
and the rest is history. (Poor thing)