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Post by macca on Mar 27, 2019 18:26:04 GMT
Thought I'd chuck this up here as well for y'all to chew on:
1) The Different Strokes Rule -- simply put 'What might be right for you might not be right for some.' -there's no best component or cable or stand or whatever.
There's no league table or hierarchy. 'I had X component and I replaced it with Y component and I much prefer the sound so Y component will be better than X component in any system and for anyone.'
No it won't.
Brings us to
2) Have an idea of the sort of sound you want to get. Play Thin Lizzy's 'Live and Dangerous' on cd through some ATC active speakers now play the same album on vinyl through Avantgarde horns with single ended Kondo valve amps - pretty much chalk and cheese. Some will prefer one, some the other. Some might hate both presentations.
Personally I think my idea of how a hi-fi system should present music was formed by the infamous 'mate's dad's systems' when I was in my teens so I've been after that ever since. I only realised that a couple of years ago. But even now hearing lots of other systems can give you an idea of what you are after. Or refine it. Without any idea what to go after you're pissing in the wind.
3) Don't try to solve fundamental problems like hardness, harshness, distortion, with ancillaries like stands, cables, room treatment, conditioners, magic beans or any of that stuff. It won't work. Get the basics right first then you can muck about with all that stuff if you still feel the need. Which you might not.
4) If it isn't sounding like you want don't jump to conclusions about what the problem is. Harsh treble is probably not the speakers. Lack of bass is probably not the amplifier. Things are often not what they seem to be in hi-fi land, very easy to change or 'upgrade' the wrong thing and make a bigger and more expensive mess. Most of us must have done this at least once. I've done it loads.
5) The fancier it gets the harder it is to get it just right. Sort of the 'Peter Principle' of hi-fi. 'Given infinite upgrading every system will one day reach the point were it is unlistenable.'
There's no real solution to that one except to stop when you're happy.
6) Have fun. It's supposed to be a hobby. Or a pastime.
Whatever, it beats being at work.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2019 20:14:12 GMT
I like this.
The thing that's struck me most is that at times, I felt i was chasing my tail. I tried all sorts of kit that was recommended but only one is still in place (Speakers)
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 27, 2019 22:11:44 GMT
I like 3 and 4 especially.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2019 23:35:51 GMT
Don't think I'm really bothered anymore about "Improving", as it were. I really need to get some Magneplaner MG-IIIbs working. And I still fancy a Line Magnetic amp. And I have enough front-end stuff...
What I buy now, tends to be out of curiosity.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 27, 2019 23:59:50 GMT
What I buy now, tends to be out of curiosity. What I buy now tends to be cheap. Being retired makes one more careful with money. I've been having a lot of fun today with a little system that stands me in at around £100 and is perfectly enjoyable musically. I'm thinking about simplifying things anyway, I have far too much gear. And, I want to get back into building my own stuff. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2019 0:27:18 GMT
Cheap. That's taken for granted.
For most of my "audiophile" life, my budget for any item has been £200. Most of what I have had been much less with it being in need of repair. A few items have been more. Most I've ever spent was £500 for a deck/arm/cartridge, as it was a real bargain. Last year I bought 5 turntables that were £50 each or less.
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Post by macca on Mar 28, 2019 7:35:09 GMT
I tried to avoid saying anything about budget since people have such widely varying amounts they can afford to spend.
I was always on a tight budget until a few years ago. I regarded it as a challenge rather than a restriction. Where's the fun if you can just go and write a blank cheque and buy anything? Any (rich) fool can do that.
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Post by pauld on Mar 28, 2019 13:56:21 GMT
Quite like 6 and probably agree on 3, but totally agree with you comment above, Martin. As you rightly state, everyone has differing budgets, so it is so subjective.
I might add that don't try to compete, what you like, you like, it doesn't actually matter all that much what someone else thinks as they don't have to listen to 'your' system.
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Post by macca on Mar 28, 2019 14:06:55 GMT
Agree - I never got the 'competitive' thing at all. In fairness I think most hi-fi types are not interested in that side of things but there's always a few exceptions.
I can understand being competitive about a game or a sport but over something to listen to music on? Makes no sense to me.
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Post by pauld on Mar 28, 2019 14:46:11 GMT
I can understand being competitive about a game or a sport but over something to listen to music on? Makes no sense to me. Try going to either the Bristol show or especially the Hifi News show and you will see/hear pissing up wall games through the entire show, quite comical really! |
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Post by sq225917 on Mar 28, 2019 15:02:05 GMT
Am I the only one who upgrades cos I like making stuff? I spend more time listening to my ipod then I do hifi and making hifi combined.
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Post by macca on Mar 28, 2019 15:48:47 GMT
I'm too cack-handed to make stuff. I've soldered speaker cable onto drive units - that's about my limit.
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Post by pauld on Mar 28, 2019 16:15:40 GMT
Me too and also it doesn't interest me, I prefer to listen to music.
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 28, 2019 17:54:53 GMT
Agree - I never got the 'competitive' thing at all. In fairness I think most hi-fi types are not interested in that side of things but there's always a few exceptions. I can understand being competitive about a game or a sport but over something to listen to music on? Makes no sense to me. Nor me, I don’t think I’ve some across that type yet. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2019 12:20:09 GMT
Best upgrade - more records.
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 31, 2019 22:46:01 GMT
Find speakers that will work were you need to put em would be on my list.
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Post by pauld on Apr 1, 2019 9:06:16 GMT
Find speakers that will work were you need to put em would be on my list. I would usually tend to agree with you about this one, Andrew, but I have had two pairs of speakers that really shouldn't have worked in rooms I put them in (including my current Focal's). The first was a pair of Linn Nexus with Ku-stone stands, which I had beside a wardrobe and bed in a 10 by 7 foot room, firing across the room. Ironically they sounded better in there than they ever had in the lounge downstairs. The second are my Focal Electra 1028 Be, which side either side of a TV stand, firing down the room of a 15 by 12 foot room. The Focal's have taken a bit more giggling about to get them to work well. |
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Post by macca on Apr 1, 2019 9:20:10 GMT
Paul you've got pretty much the same speakers as me only with the updated drivers. Bloke I got them off was using them in a tiny bedroom and they were fine, as long as you didn't crank it to silly levels. And yet they will comfortably fill a church hall with sound - I know because I've tried it. My room is pretty large but the speakers are so explicit I don't find I have to crank them up. They still surprise me on a daily basis with how good they are. Of course with a load of old tat driving them they will just show it up for what it is hence the general dislike for Focals on the internet.
But a good tip I agree is to start with the speakers. Get speakers that suit your taste in presentation and that will work in your room. Then get quality amplification that will drive them with ease. If that is all working right any competent source will give a good sound.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 9:34:26 GMT
I had a pair of Dynaudio Contour 1.3 Mk.II speakers that would not work properly in any room in my house. They just boomed! I decided then never to buy rear ported speakers again.
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Post by macca on Apr 1, 2019 9:55:46 GMT
I had a pair of Dynaudio Contour 1.3 Mk.II speakers that would not work properly in any room in my house. They just boomed! I decided then never to buy rear ported speakers again. Dinky little ported speakers with stunt bass www.stereophile.com/content/dynaudio-contour-13-mkii-loudspeaker-measurements-part-2There really is nothing worse. 6.5 inch driver in a tiny cabinet but the response is only a couple of db down at 35hz! Something has to give in that equation. No idea why anyone buys these things. Well actually I do, it's because they think a proper speaker will have 'too much bass' in their room. Just by virtue of it being larger because larger = more bass. Nope! |
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Post by pauld on Apr 1, 2019 10:29:43 GMT
I had a pair of Dynaudio Contour 1.3 Mk.II speakers that would not work properly in any room in my house. They just boomed! I decided then never to buy rear ported speakers again. Dinky little ported speakers with stunt bass www.stereophile.com/content/dynaudio-contour-13-mkii-loudspeaker-measurements-part-2There really is nothing worse. 6.5 inch driver in a tiny cabinet but the response is only a couple of db down at 35hz! Something has to give in that equation. No idea why anyone buys these things. Well actually I do, it's because they think a proper speaker will have 'too much bass' in their room. Just by virtue of it being larger because larger = more bass. Nope! Another sales and marketing specialty. |
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Post by pauld on Apr 1, 2019 10:34:08 GMT
Paul you've got pretty much the same speakers as me only with the updated drivers. Bloke I got them off was using them in a tiny bedroom and they were fine, as long as you didn't crank it to silly levels. And yet they will comfortably fill a church hall with sound - I know because I've tried it. My room is pretty large but the speakers are so explicit I don't find I have to crank them up. They still surprise me on a daily basis with how good they are. Of course with a load of old tat driving them they will just show it up for what it is hence the general dislike for Focals on the internet. But a good tip I agree is to start with the speakers. Get speakers that suit your taste in presentation and that will work in your room. Then get quality amplification that will drive them with ease. If that is all working right any competent source will give a good sound. Agreed, Focal's and their predecessors, JMLab's are known for being incredibly detailed and can be considered forward if partnered with the wrong equipment. I know for instance that they don't work at all well with Exposure, Linn or Naim amplification. Although some of the later models such as the Sopra and Kanta have had crossover updates to make them work easier with Naim for obvious reasons. Like you, I still hear things on certain songs that I haven't heard before and think it is wonderful having the level of detail the Focal's provide. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 10:39:05 GMT
I should have bought a pair of Sonus Faber Electas instead. Same size and configuration, but front ported. I later tried a pair in my system and they sounded lovely.
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Post by pauld on Apr 1, 2019 10:44:00 GMT
I should have bought a pair of Sonus Faber Electas instead. Same size and configuration, but front ported. I later tried a pair in my system and they sounded lovely. I have never owned a pair of Sonus Faber speakers, but they are one brand I have always respected and liked. I have never heard a bad pair of their speakers! |
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Post by macca on Apr 1, 2019 11:08:49 GMT
I should have bought a pair of Sonus Faber Electas instead. Same size and configuration, but front ported. I later tried a pair in my system and they sounded lovely. No bass peak like the Dynaudio, treble peak instead. They start rolling off below 70 Hz, unlike the Dynaudio. I think it is the bass peak from the port that sets off room nodes, not on which side of the cab the port is. The peak is there to give the illusion of low frequency extension aka stunt bass. With large ported speaker you don't get that problem. It's small speakers that give ports/bass-reflex a bad name. I think all small speakers attempting serious bass are a disaster. And with those that don't there is so much of the music missing! It's a lose-lose. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 12:27:50 GMT
The little Ruark Swordsman Plus speakers I'm playing around with at the moment are again similar in type, if slightly smaller and with their sealed cabinets, the bass is very clean and controlled, if not as potent as speakers with 12" bass drivers.
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Post by macca on Apr 1, 2019 12:56:46 GMT
Speakers are such a big topic that we should really have a new thread.
For me as stated I don't see the point of small speakers. No matter how small the room is, jam some big ones in. Understanding speaker measurements (and it isn't hard) will help to make a shortlist of what will still work despite the confined space. If the room is very small a big speaker may work better than a small one that has stunt bass since it will not have odd peaks in the bass response that will set off room nodes. I think this is the primary reason big Tannoys work anywhere, their low frequency response is smooth, not peaky.
You want an in room response down to 40Hz without any roll off or you miss a huge chunk of both the music and the sense of recording venue ambience that the low bass reveals. For me anything less than that is a compromise too far.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 1, 2019 17:07:22 GMT
I’d agree that a good big speaker usually beats a comparably good small one. My camera though is that it may depend on your musical tastes. If you don’t like Rock or large scale classical, it can be less of an issue,
But then that describes me and I still enjoy Spica’s better with a sub. Loads of Bs written about subs bearing an automatic no no IMO. The better RELs has eintegrated well with no downsides for me.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2019 17:22:06 GMT
tripod mounting for your speakers. 3 anchor points cant be beat
get them as rigid as possible
no banana plugs..bare wire screwed in very tight and keep tight.
these 2 things will make a big difference..
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 1, 2019 17:26:52 GMT
tripod mounting for your speakers. 3 anchor points cant be beat get them as rigid as possible no banana plugs..bare wire screwed in very tight and keep tight. these 2 things will make a big difference.. Best ever speaker stands y a mile we’re Origin Live tripod stands for Epos. They had a massive footprint and they blew the proper Epos stands into the weeds. |
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