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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 20:38:48 GMT
Hi all, I had Macca round today to give a critical ear on my newest cable. The SPOTFIRE reference speaker cables. I've pinched his post from AoS,. Sure he won't mind! "I have heard them and they are good so I'm buying some. I'm not sure I can go into the details of how they sound until I get them into my own system. Ollies system is pretty similar to mine except for the two main factors - speakers and room. But we tested against another cable which I brought with me and the differences, whilst by no means night and day, did seem enough to justify the expenditure. My overall perception was that they were just letting a bit more through right across the range, if that makes any sense. And I spotted Ollie's crafty interconnect swap. Not only blind but I didn't even know I was being tested! Not as mutton as I thought I might be" My response: The differences, I believe, will become far more apparent once you get them in your system, Macca. For me, the differences were a little more night and day but I understand that the unfamiliar (to a degree) speakers and room will have made it harder for anyone to easily discern the differences. However, I have had a lot of time being stuck in the house and heard it pretty much instantly. There was a track we used which really showed the differences and that was: "Peter Schneider - St James Infirmary" This track is superbly recorded and was recorded live. With the SPOTFIRE reference cables, the soundstage was very developed. It's deep, wide and most importantly, gave the ambience of the venue. Applause was naturally presented with, "I was there" feel. The vocals are gravelly and there's a few sections where they are belted out. The vocals never pierced of gave any cause to wince. Guitar had great tone and sustain but overall it was just a very natural sound. Not forced or pressured, just natural. When we put Macca's speaker cable in, that ambience disappeared and with it went the soundstage. The bass was overpowering too. The reason it lost it ambience is, to loosely quote Macca, "it's not letting all the sound through" and that was the rub, Macca's cables weren't transparent enough to allow the ambience and sounstage to be recreated. Macca and I agreed on this assessment Everything flattened out and sounded a bit 2D, Macca and I agreed on this too. IMO it all got a little bit shouty. I also noted a harshness to the guitar which made me squint at one point. Macca disagreed over this point and laid blame at the speakers for being "uncouth" and suggested he felt it was a bit shouty earlier on when listening to "Earth Wing & Fire - September" with the SPOTFIRE. We played "E,W&F - September" via Macca's cables and my feelings were that it was tonally thin and lacking in energy. It was almost too smoothed over and the dynamics of the track were a bit....flat. Macca and I kind of agreed but I think we were trying to say the same thing with different words. Personally, I think the main issue was the track itself. Whilst the cables demonstrated a noticeable tonal difference and contrasting soundstaging ability, the track sounded lean to me with both cables. I have since listened to it on headphones and it has the same characteristics. Personally, I think it's a poorly mixed album and put that down to the version of the album I have. We listened to Steely Dan, which, with the SPOTFIRE reference cables had a really joyful sound, full of bounce and vigour bit again when Macca's went in, it lost it and the bass seemed a little OTT again. We listened to a lot of diverse music groups and for me the biggest endorsement of any piece of kit is when it goes in, and stays in. The SPOTFIRE reference speaker cables went back in, and stayed in. Macca's response: Yes pretty much agree with all that. But having had a couple of sessions now with your Pioneer speakers I'm sticking with 'uncouth'
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Post by myles on Mar 15, 2019 21:59:08 GMT
I've seen these talked about but no price?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 22:03:13 GMT
I've seen these talked about but no price? It depends on the desired length, Myles. I don't have a price per meter. The pair used today we're 3.5m (7m total) So they'd cost approximately £375
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2019 23:54:21 GMT
I've seen these talked about but no price? It depends on the desired length, Myles. I don't have a price per meter. The pair used today we're 3.5m (7m total) So they'd cost approximately £375 Oliver, are you investigating things like, headphone leads, speaker jumpers, tonearm leads, digital interconnects and headshell wires? I turn out some really nifty digital interconnects myself. They compete with anything out there! They're dedicated to CD transport/player to DAC use.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 0:14:59 GMT
It depends on the desired length, Myles. I don't have a price per meter. The pair used today we're 3.5m (7m total) So they'd cost approximately £375 Oliver, are you investigating things like, headphone leads, speaker jumpers, tonearm leads, digital interconnects and headshell wires? I turn out some really nifty digital interconnects myself. They compete with anything out there! They're dedicated to CD transport/player to DAC use. Geoff, yes, I already offer a Tonearm cable which has the same design principles as the rest of the SPOTFIRE range. I hadn't even thought about headshell leads!!! I'll get on that. Digital interconnects aren't something I've looked into as of yet, mainly because I haven't been interested in digital. Headphone leads, again, not really on my radar at the minute. I wanted to get the main ones right, the Interconnects have been popular and the speaker cables are making the right noises so maybe going forward, I can expand the horizons. I had heard you were making your own cables, good on ya! We need a bakeoff!! 😉
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Post by antonio on Mar 16, 2019 6:01:43 GMT
I'm going to have to get a listen sometime.
I've looked on AoS but cannot find the thread. Which section of the forum is the thread on?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 8:11:25 GMT
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Post by dsjr on Mar 16, 2019 8:47:11 GMT
Have you tried a standard copper stranded cable (cable pairs) of the same gauge to confirm it's not just the gauge that's doing it?
I'm having difficulty here Ollie with many of the threads you start these days, as they appear to be duplicated all over the place.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 9:24:13 GMT
Have you tried a standard copper stranded cable (cable pairs) of the same gauge to confirm it's not just the gauge that's doing it?
I'm having difficulty here Ollie with many of the threads you start these days, as they appear to be duplicated all over the place.
Dave, Yes, I have done the usual comparisons with gauges etc. The pair in my system at the time were a standard stranded pair of sufficient gauge. There was a post somewhere stating that as long as you have sufficient gauge, speaker cables should be much of a muchness. I wanted to test that so I've had 6 sets of speaker cables here over the last few weeks (once I'd narrowed down my shortlist of potential suppliers) all with the intention to compare. They all had different gauge, some where copper, some silver plated, except for the two Chord ones, the Odyssey 2 and the other, I can't remember the name of. They had the same gauge IIRC. What I found was, speaker cables are not even nearly "much of a muchness' at all. You'd think the bigger the gauge, the fatter the sound, not always the case either. The cables I've had here were all comparative in price too (£300-500 for a 3m pair), apart from the Fisual S-FLEX, which was only £2 per meter and performs way better than its price suggests. I already owned these so threw them into the mix. I tried to keep the playing field as level as possible and believe me, had anything else been better, I'd have had those instead. It's been an interesting few weeks and to be honest, a busy few weeks. More people visiting next week and a little upgrade to the SP10 on the way too. Duplicate posts: I am not sure what's hard to follow unless you're reading here and AOS?. I just share what I'm doing on both forums so anyone, not on both forums, who might want to read my posts, can find them in either replace. Not sure how else to do it? Any suggestions?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 9:46:38 GMT
Your first speaker cable, and it is the “reference” - a brave move. What happens if you find something better?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 10:03:20 GMT
Your first speaker cable, and it is the “reference” - a brave move. What happens if you find something better? It's not brave really, just an indication of how highly i personally rate them. Also, not my first speaker cable, just the first i've made available to buy.
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Post by dsjr on Mar 16, 2019 10:33:55 GMT
Rumour and Odyssey were very odd ones sonically as I've said many times (although better than QED SA which won so many awards twenty years ago) and the better the speakers and driving amps, the worse they sounded for whatever reason. Scrappy, thin toned and only 'musically together' with certain products and they totally destroyed the rather stark WB Act Ones I tried to live with for a couple of years - ugh! I've NEVER suggested to my knowledge that a fatter cable would give a fatter sound, but physics suggests that a heavier gauge of good quality metal should offer less resistance at least to the electrical signal passing through it.
The 'best' speaker cable I remember was *at least* half an inch cross section each (separate) conductor in a black insulation and it was brilliant with every amp and speaker I tried it with, no question of any 'character' or matching characteristic. I don't remember anyone at KJ remembering where it came from either... VDH The Wind was the closest commercial speaker cable to it, but again I'm not sure if this does 'stuff' in addition to its prime function.
Paul Miller used to do substantial tests on 'wires' and looked closely at their rf performance as apparently, nasty 'stuff' going on up there could affect what we perceive. Long time ago now.
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Post by savvypaul on Mar 16, 2019 11:23:47 GMT
Your first speaker cable, and it is the “reference” - a brave move. What happens if you find something better? The 'new' reference. Gotta love his enthusiasm...
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 16, 2019 11:29:57 GMT
Rumour and Odyssey were very odd ones sonically as I've said many times (although better than QED SA which won so many awards twenty years ago) and the better the speakers and driving amps, the worse they sounded for whatever reason. Scrappy, thin toned and only 'musically together' with certain products and they totally destroyed the rather stark WB Act Ones I tried to live with for a couple of years - ugh! I've NEVER suggested to my knowledge that a fatter cable would give a fatter sound, but physics suggests that a heavier gauge of good quality metal should offer less resistance at least to the electrical signal passing through it. The 'best' speaker cable I remember was *at least* half an inch cross section each (separate) conductor in a black insulation and it was brilliant with every amp and speaker I tried it with, no question of any 'character' or matching characteristic. I don't remember anyone at KJ remembering where it came from either... VDH The Wind was the closest commercial speaker cable to it, but again I'm not sure if this does 'stuff' in addition to its prime function. Paul Miller used to do substantial tests on 'wires' and looked closely at their rf performance as apparently, nasty 'stuff' going on up there could affect what we perceive. Long time ago now. Interesting stuff Dave.i didn’t know about PM’s experiments and findings, Speaker cable difference seems are often obvious to me so it’s nice to know there are technical explanations out there.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 11:31:16 GMT
Rumour and Odyssey were very odd ones sonically as I've said many times (although better than QED SA which won so many awards twenty years ago) and the better the speakers and driving amps, the worse they sounded for whatever reason. Scrappy, thin toned and only 'musically together' with certain products and they totally destroyed the rather stark WB Act Ones I tried to live with for a couple of years - ugh! I've NEVER suggested to my knowledge that a fatter cable would give a fatter sound, but physics suggests that a heavier gauge of good quality metal should offer less resistance at least to the electrical signal passing through it. The 'best' speaker cable I remember was *at least* half an inch cross section each (separate) conductor in a black insulation and it was brilliant with every amp and speaker I tried it with, no question of any 'character' or matching characteristic. I don't remember anyone at KJ remembering where it came from either... VDH The Wind was the closest commercial speaker cable to it, but again I'm not sure if this does 'stuff' in addition to its prime function. Paul Miller used to do substantial tests on 'wires' and looked closely at their rf performance as apparently, nasty 'stuff' going on up there could affect what we perceive. Long time ago now. No, Dave. You've not suggested that as far as I know but it has been suggested in some circles. RF is one of the things I took into consideration. Have a look: roll generator
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 16, 2019 11:40:20 GMT
Is it two. Separate runs of cable per side, or does the cable pictured contain both runs?
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 16, 2019 11:42:07 GMT
Oliver’s post answered my question but I’m unable to delete my last post due to a system glitch
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 11:43:16 GMT
Lol, yes, one per side. Pretty standard construction
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Post by dsjr on Mar 16, 2019 11:44:24 GMT
Earth wire? Are you aware that many-most amps couple the return speaker connection directly to 'ground' as it is (Hegel don't and I'm sure there are others). I must be missing something here...
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 16, 2019 12:12:54 GMT
DPA did it, didn’t they? Maybe Townsend?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 12:16:48 GMT
Earth wire? Are you aware that many-most amps couple the return speaker connection directly to 'ground' as it is (Hegel don't and I'm sure there are others). I must be missing something here... No, you're not missing anything Dave. The ground wire is to connect the shield inside the cable. It can be used, or left off depending on the amplifier but my philosophy is that if it's available, why remove it as an option. There's no harm in it being there so I decided to keep it available. Macca tells me that Tannoys have a dedicated Terminal for such use. Isn't it a good thing to have that as an option?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 12:23:12 GMT
DPA did it, didn’t they? Maybe Townsend? Yes, they do. Imagine that. High end cables with the same idea! I mean, it must be an absolute shocker that i put some thought into this cable and sought consultation with some VERY over qualified people. I'm sure folks think I just chuck a couple of expensive plugs on any cable I find and proclaim them to be good lol
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Post by dsjr on Mar 16, 2019 13:09:52 GMT
Not sure a speaker cable needs to be shielded in all honesty, as the only amps able to react to rf are possibly Class D ones with 400 - 600khz switching frequencies. Most conventional amps don't go up that high so maybe a waste of your time. Tannoy had an earthing terminal as a sop to the domestic fraternity. Not even sure the current stuff has it in all honesty and nobody else with far greater R&D facilities ever regarded it as an issue. Bit like their 'super-tweeters' which actually came in at a very audible 9khz I remember and only going out to 30k or so I believe. The main thing with these was perhaps to smooth out the concentric main tweeter and modify dispersion a little?...
Over qualified people having anything to do with the domestic audio industry? Not too sure about that one...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 13:58:35 GMT
Not sure a speaker cable needs to be shielded in all honesty, as the only amps able to react to rf are possibly Class D ones with 400 - 600khz switching frequencies. Most conventional amps don't go up that high so maybe a waste of your time. Tannoy had an earthing terminal as a sop to the domestic fraternity. Not even sure the current stuff has it in all honesty and nobody else with far greater R&D facilities ever regarded it as an issue. Bit like their 'super-tweeters' which actually came in at a very audible 9khz I remember and only going out to 30k or so I believe. The main thing with these was perhaps to smooth out the concentric main tweeter and modify dispersion a little?... Over qualified people having anything to do with the domestic audio industry? Not too sure about that one... The cable has to be flexible enough to use with any amplifiers, including digital. The cable comes with the option of attaching a shield or not, it may not be necessary in some systems but it's there. I like options at no extra cost and my opinion is that If you can offer something, you should. No one said the consultant was hifi related Dave, just that they were over qualified for the questions I asked, and in their input into my intended use of the cable. You know they use cables for other purposes than hifi! lol
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Post by antonio on Mar 16, 2019 14:29:00 GMT
"Over qualified people having anything to do with the domestic audio industry? Not too sure about that one.." " I like options at no extra cost and my opinion is that If you can offer something, you should." There, I agree with both of you.
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Post by dsjr on Mar 16, 2019 15:34:02 GMT
I'm just an old grouch at the moment (apologies again), but I've seen good engineers all but annihilated by ministry/government departments and some of the fallout does enter the audio scene eventually once they've recovered, to our benefit imo. Judging by the size of the 4mm? plugs shown, the cable is a massive gauge (twisted twin conductors?), so good luck with it. I needed to re-terminate one or two of the Z plugs on my LS5 (constant use these were never designed for plus a 'pull' on one which bent the 'Z' cylinder and all but snapped it on straightening) and even for me, it was a pain in the effin' arse to remove and replace said plugs and that's with two hands in (almost) working order
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 16:28:13 GMT
I'm just an old grouch at the moment (apologies again), but I've seen good engineers all but annihilated by ministry/government departments and some of the fallout does enter the audio scene eventually once they've recovered, to our benefit imo. Judging by the size of the 4mm? plugs shown, the cable is a massive gauge (twisted twin conductors?), so good luck with it. I needed to re-terminate one or two of the Z plugs on my LS5 (constant use these were never designed for plus a 'pull' on one which bent the 'Z' cylinder and all but snapped it on straightening) and even for me, it was a pain in the effin' arse to remove and replace said plugs and that's with two hands in (almost) working order I'll just say, it's not easy getting that cable into standard zplugs or bananas and yes, being hampered by a bad hand and bad shoulder the other side is making it even harder! What's also come to light and made an impression on me is how difficult it is to find cable manufacturers who are willing to give up small lengths to people with no VAT number! That was an eye opener. All I can say is perseverance with daily emails done the job lol
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2019 13:38:59 GMT
First bits of feedback are filtering in. From Jimbo on AoS: SPOTFIRE Speaker Cable Mini Review Oliver kindly lent me his own pair of SPOTFIRE speaker cables for review over the weekend which just happened to be 2 x 4 metre pair, the minimum length I needed in my system. As he handed over the bag I knew they were substantial cables and although stiff had enough flexibility for use to get around my system. Whilst I have borrowed these cables Oliver has had to go back to some sort of Bellwire! I have not really changed my speaker cables much over the past 4 years since I found the excellent Chord Epic Twin which has been a constant in my system and worked really well. I don't think speaker cable is something a lot of us tend to change that much as it is almost a fit and forget item once you have found something you think is reasonable so I was actually quite excited to get the opportunity to hear Oliver cable in my system as I had previously had excellent results from his SPOTFIRE RCA Interconnect. The SPOTFIRE speaker cable had banana plugs on the speaker end and big spades on the amp end and fitted my equipment perfectly but I have had extra beefed up speaker terminals on my Croft amp so this helped. You do need a good mechanical fit and they need to be torqued down firmly as he cable is meaty. Straight away I heard an obvious difference in my system and for the better. As Steve had alluded too in his review these cables have the same character as the SPOTFIRE IC which is actually what Oli intended. So if you have heard the SPOTFIRE IC you may get a good idea of what these speaker cables are going to do in your system. However as we all know different equipment may produce different results. In my system the soundstage just became bigger and more open. It seemed that the recording and everything in it became more transparent and open. It is a bit like going from a cheap cartridge which has a fairly narrow soundstage and everything is bunched together to a top flight MC cartridge that frees everything in every plane and allows Instruments and vocalists to breath and be heard in their own acoustic space. I listened for much of the day to digital material and was astounded by the level of resolution and naturalness I heard. It maybe a strange way of describing a cable but this SPOTFIRE speaker cable sounded analogue. By that I mean there was a smoothness and non fatiguing presentation of the recorded information. There were no hyped artifacts and nothing sounded forced or harsh just beautiful natural tone and spaciousness. I quickly reverted back to my Chord Epic Twin and this confirmed the difference. The Chord sounded slightly hyped up in the top end and over egged the pudding making the digital sound too detailed and wearing. I preferred the SPOTFIRE speaker cables presentation which although detailed sounded far more natural and easier too listen too. I know its an old cliche but the SPOTFIRE took you a few rows back in the audience whereas the Chord put you in the front seats. I always prefer to be a few rows back as you can enjoy the performance more without being on top of it. I played a vast amount of digital material throughout the day and whatever I threw at this cable it delivered in a very balanced manner. Treble was detailed and well extended, Bass was big, firm and articulate and the midrange was full and very natural, vocals in particular sounded spot on in both presence and naturalness. This cable does make your system sound bigger and moves the sound down a few notches or should I say it seems to convey material in the mid to bottom end I was not aware off with a presence that gives the impression your are hearing a bigger pair of speakers. Just before I turned to vinyl I did some A-B comparisons with recordings I had on vinyl and digital. My partner, Helen, listened to the whole session with me throughout and found it difficult to call out wether she was listening to the vinyl or digital version of the recording which maybe a lot to do with the device I was using for digital replay but thats another story. However by the end of the day it became apparent we preferred in many cases the digital recording. Oliver has a few theories why the SPOTFIRE cable may have influencing this difference but I thought it may have been the lower noise floor and the sheer resolution the digital playback had especially as it was all upscaled. Listening to the SPOTFIRE speaker cable with vinyl was equally impressive and here I must admit the difference between my Chord EPIC twin and the SPOTFIRE was not as large. It was still expansive in the soundstage and conveyed superb information in the recording with complete naturalness. Nothing sounded hyped or excessive just balanced and very easy to listen too. It was a long session but very enjoyable and I would say this cable is easily as significant in its abilities to unravel the complexity and detail in recordings whilst still maintaining balance and calm to the proceedings. As I said at the beginning of the review it had a definite character I found with the SPOTFIRE IC which I found worked extremely well in my system. The SPOTFIRE speaker cable lifted my system and allowed me to hear my recordings in an effortless kind of way so you were just left entranced by the music which after all is what it is all about. Oliver has definitely produced a cable here of the highest quality and it delivers a fabulous performance which means I am going to have start saving the pennies again!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2019 13:39:30 GMT
From STD305M
Hi All,
I recently bought myself a pair of Oliver's New Speaker cables and thought I would post my thoughts.
Setup was the new Project 2xperience SB DC fitted with At33ptg through a Pure Sound T10 sut into P10 phono stage
DCB1 turbo preamp into a Pair of Firebottle Monos
Speakers were Spendor S6e floor standers
All cables for the review were Spotfire RCA and Spotfire Speaker Cables.
Albums were Pink Floyd - The division Bell,
Yello - Toy
Queen - Re Mastered Greatest Hits.
Ill keep this short, I hate waffle. I've used many cables from cheap Qed 79 Strand through to Chord Silver Spiral with many others in between and noticed a little change in how the sound was presented, liking some and hating others, the best to date in my system had been Tellurium so stuck with that for the past year or so.
Yesterday I finally had the chance to hook up the Spotfire ( massive cables by any standard ) and oh my god what a revelation. These cables Slaughter anything I have used before, the have the biggest widest deepest soundstage ive ever heard, you can pinpoint every instrument and voices hover right in front of you almost as if you could close your eyes, reach out and touch the artist...
treble is well extended without being over bearing bass is tight and very low but its the mids that impressed me the most, absolutely no grain full of air and plenty of space around the vocalist.
I think Oliver has done the same with this speaker cable as he did with the interconnects. Full blooded hard hitting and very musical cable with the best sound stage I've heard at any price.. I would gladly pay double what I paid and still think Id got a bargain.
My only criticism would be how stiff the cable is and you need plenty room behind your equipment rack to use this cable but, if you have the room boy are you in for a treat
Regards Steve
Well Done Oliver -- nice one mate, top notch cable 😎
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 7, 2019 13:58:29 GMT
Some great reviews.When you consider the price of things like NAC A5, the price of Spotfire seems an even bigger bargain,
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