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Post by pauld on Mar 4, 2019 12:59:11 GMT
As you will see from my signature, I am now using a Belles Aria integrated amplifier.
I first came across Belles when one of my friends on another forum, bought a pre and mono amps and I was overly impressed with how they sounded, so I thought I would investigate more.
Belles is an US firm and make a series of different amplifiers under the Power Modules brand. They have a very positive following in the US but have less exposure in the UK.
The owner of the firm, Dave Belles has been designing and manufacturing amplifiers for over 30 years so has a strong background.
After hearing my friends system, I got in touch with the UK distributor, NuNu Distribution and they offered to lend me an amplifier to try it out in my system. This was the Belles Solo integrated amplifier which was good, and arguably better than my Exposure's, but was a lot of money for the minimal upgrade I felt it gave.
Moving on to last year, it was my 40th Birthday and so I had a bit of extra money to throw on the hifi pile, so thought I would see what else was about and decided to get back in touch with NuNu Distribution again who recommended their sister company, Coherent Systems who could help further.
At the time, I had an Exposure XVII pre and XVIII power amplifier which had a very good reputation in the amplifier world, and over the years I had compared them to many different amplifiers including Naim, Rega, Audiolab, Chord, Belles (above), etc. in a bid to see what options there were out there, but never found anything I wanted to buy.
Tony from Coherent Systems came along to my home and brought along a Belles Aria which was half the price of the Belles Solo I had heard previous, but I had read from reviews, had a good reputation from being exceedingly musical.
I plugged the Belles into my system, and within 2 beats of the track I put on, I knew I had to buy one. It absolutely blew away the Exposure combo in ever single way. Suddlely there was a soundstage that had been missing, the sound became more transparent and the tightness of bass was immense.
My Focal Electra 1028 Be Loudspeakers are excellent if partnered well, but are exceedingly revealing, so can sound overly bright which was always the case with the Exposure's, but with the Belles, that unpleasant brightness disappeared, but without loosing any of the dynamics, or detail.
Additionally, the Belles Aria is exceedingly musical, you just feel you want to listen over and over.
I don't understand from a technical perspective, but all I can say is that this is a very special amplifier for the reasonable sum of £2,300 new (I bought mine ex-demo). I have since compared the the Belles to a Naim 252/SC/250DR and the Belles made the Naim combo sound very average indeed, which is ironic given the RRP value of the Naim being £15,000.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 13:27:10 GMT
Hi Paul,
I've moved the thread to the Review section.
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts and experience of the Belle's.
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Post by pauld on Mar 4, 2019 13:32:40 GMT
No problem Oliver, you should probably move my review of the Coherent speaker cable here too then  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 18:15:38 GMT
Nice write-up Paul. Quite enjoyed reading that.
S.
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Post by firebottle on Mar 4, 2019 18:23:13 GMT
which is ironic given the RRP value of the Naim being £15,000. = overpriced, enjoy the Belles Paul. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2019 19:51:13 GMT
No problem Oliver, you should probably move my review of the Coherent speaker cable here too then What's it called? |
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Post by pauld on Mar 4, 2019 20:41:13 GMT
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Post by pauld on Mar 4, 2019 20:46:20 GMT
which is ironic given the RRP value of the Naim being £15,000. = overpriced, enjoy the Belles Paul. 100% agree, you pay for the name, Alan. |
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Post by johnnybel on Dec 19, 2019 20:47:53 GMT
I have the Belles Aria pre and mono blocks also using Totem Forest in White their for sale, I am thinking about buying Focal 948's any buddy used this combo. If so I would love to hear your opinions
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Post by pauld on Dec 19, 2019 22:09:48 GMT
I have the Belles Aria pre and mono blocks also using Totem Forest in White their for sale, I am thinking about buying Focal 948's any buddy used this combo. If so I would love to hear your opinions You have the Belles Aria pre and monos, lovely, they must sound amazing. The Belles Aria integrated worked very well with my previous Focal Electra 1028 Be speakers. I’ve heard the Focal 948 and they are good but after the Totem Forest they’d probably be a bit of a step down. They have a softer sound to the Electra models as they have a reconfigured crossover which were designed to suit Naim amplification’s more forward sound. if you’re keen on Focal, have you thought about trying the Sopra or Kanta models. Quadral speakers work fantastically with Belles amps if you’re looking for alternatives. |
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Post by nonuffin on Dec 20, 2019 11:24:22 GMT
I have the Belles Aria pre and mono blocks also using Totem Forest in White their for sale, I am thinking about buying Focal 948's any buddy used this combo. If so I would love to hear your opinions You have the Belles Aria pre and monos, lovely, they must sound amazing. The Belles Aria integrated worked very well with my previous Focal Electra 1028 Be speakers. I’ve heard the Focal 948 and they are good but after the Totem Forest they’d probably be a bit of a step down. They have a softer sound to the Electra models as they have a reconfigured crossover which were designed to suit Naim amplification’s more forward sound. if you’re keen on Focal, have you thought about trying the Sopra or Kanta models. Quadral speakers work fantastically with Belles amps if you’re looking for alternatives. I agree with Paul that Quadral speakers would be a better match with the Belles. Very much ignored by the british market and a huge pity that they are. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2019 20:48:25 GMT
Gentlemen thank you for your input, I live in Canada and some products from Europe are hard to get in my city, Therefore cant listen to everything 4 hours north of Toronto, That's why I am interested in the Focal 948's everything I've read is positive. My room is quite large that's why Im interested in The Focals and they are completely made in France, I hate all the Chinese made products they just don't hold their value. Always used McIntosh, Bryston, ect. In the past and never loose money. Well not much anyway LOL
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Post by nonuffin on Dec 20, 2019 23:27:05 GMT
Quadral don't appear to have a dustributor in Canada and the USA has but one according to the Quadral website, who may be able to help
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Dec 20, 2019 23:43:53 GMT
I have the Belles Aria pre and mono blocks also using Totem Forest in White their for sale, I am thinking about buying Focal 948's any buddy used this combo. If so I would love to hear your opinions Focal make excellent speakers but just be aware that they do not add any embellishment. The sound will be crisp, clear and transparent. If you are OK with that, crack on as you probably wont get Quadrals in Canada. You could do a lot worse for the money. |
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Post by macca on Dec 21, 2019 9:07:30 GMT
I'd go for the Focals because they are a 3 way with 2 x 8 inch bass drivers, and I like Focals. The Totem is only a 2 way with one 6.5 inch bass/mid driver.
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Post by pauld on Dec 23, 2019 0:42:40 GMT
I'd go for the Focals because they are a 3 way with 2 x 8 inch bass drivers, and I like Focals. The Totem is only a 2 way with one 6.5 inch bass/mid driver. Having heard both the Focal and Totem models mentioned in this thread, I can assure you the Totem are a better speaker with much better bass. |
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Post by macca on Dec 23, 2019 7:37:42 GMT
One small driver doing the whole range 20hz to 3khz is better than a dedicated mid range driver and two 8 inch bass drivers? That's rarely if ever true unless the 3 way is cheap crap and knowing Focal it won't be.
Have to say the only time I heard Totems I wondered what the fuss was about although can't recall which model. Are you sure the amp was up to driving the Focals properly?
Okay so is your personal preference of course and nothing trumps that. But suspect I'd think differently if I did the comparison. Plus a speaker for a large room is needed. That little driver in the Totem is going to distort if asked to do serious levels.
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Post by pauld on Dec 23, 2019 15:20:46 GMT
If the Totem and Focal websites are anything to go by, my assumptions weren't far off.
Focal:
37Hz - 28kHz ± 3 dB (in room)
Totem:
30 Hz – 20 kHz ± 3 dB (in room)
I have come to realise over the years that the number of bass drivers doesn't indicate necessarily that they go deeper.
For instance, my current Quadral speakers go a significantly deeper than my previous Focal speaker. The Focal had a single midrange and two bass drivers and the Quadrals have a single midrange and a single bass driver. Admittedly the bass driver in the Quadrals is 10' vs 2x 6 1/2" in the Focal's, which could have something to do with it.
The Totem Forest are excellent speakers and it would be quite a big drop in performance to move to the Focal Aria 938. If Johnny wanted to stay with Focal I'd look at the Electra, Sopra or Kanta ranges, any of which should be a handy upgrade on the Totem's.
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Post by nonuffin on Dec 23, 2019 15:37:32 GMT
I have come to realise over the years that the number of bass drivers doesn't indicate necessarily that they go deeper. That makes two us that think this way. My own Quadral speakers have a bass and a bass/mid unit of 6 inches each which certainly go deep and powerful, in fact they barely move when driven. |
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Post by macca on Dec 23, 2019 15:58:00 GMT
I wasn't thinking about bass depth but more the ability to play at higher levels without distortion i.e bass quality. 2 8 inchers plus a midrange driver is going to go louder and cleaner than one 6.5 inch driver. There's no problem getting deep bass out if a small two way providing you are happy to sacrifice efficiency. Although the Forest is 86dB so not insensitive.
but working from 'in room response' is a bit misleading as it will vary with many factors - size and construction of the room and how close the speakers are to the boundaries.
Anechoic measurement shows the Forest rolls off quickly after 50hz .https://www.stereophile.com/content/totem-acoustic-forest-loudspeaker-measurements
So placed in free space in a large room you are not going to get 30 hz out of them at a level you can hear. In a smaller room up close to a rear wall you might, but that's pretty compromised positioning for a floorstander.
Personally I look for speakers that measure flat down to at least 40hz anechoically, that way in a normal room with the bass gain and treble reduction that supplies you're pretty much guaranteed to get bass down to 'satisfying' depth' at a level you can still hear. So the Totems wouldn't even make my shortlist on that factor alone. I can't find any measurements at all for the Focals though.
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Post by pauld on Dec 31, 2019 17:59:14 GMT
For me bass is important but overall I go for the most musical and the ability to be non fatiguing for extended listening speakers.
The Totems are a very musical sound whereas Focal are generally attractive as they are immediately appealing, but not over extended periods because they are quite an in your face sound by comparison.
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Post by macca on Jan 1, 2020 10:03:52 GMT
Personal taste though isn't it? I think a lot of people like Harbeth for the same reason, they don't want it too explicit. Whereas I like that trait. I don't get listener fatigue, but if the sound is bland and smoothed over that's when I get bored and switch it off.
I think listening fatigue is mostly a problem with the amplification anyway. A lot of amplifiers don't have that purity of tone that the best ones do. You don't realise it until you hear an amp that has it. Or can be bad amp/speaker match.
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Post by dsjr on Jan 1, 2020 11:05:21 GMT
Harbeths are slowly changing, the general downtilt response heard as high frequency restraint (and admitted to by the designer recently) with an 'organic' bass performance requiring free air positioning, is now becoming flatter in-room and more realistic rather than just 'nice.' trade-off is the requirement for more power to wake them up, as passive ATC's do I remember.
Modern Focals I've heard at not too silly prices 'sound' rather nice to me, but maybe too nice for some? The Chora at £1200 looks odd (it leans back alarmingly) and the larger Kanta 3 was nice too, although for that money and my room, I'd buy ATC 45A's, save on amp boxes and cable bullshit and grin smugly as I once did...
Please also remember that a slim floor-standing column with just a couple of drivers in is basically an organ pipe with a hole at one end and a driver at the other - and often sounds off like one as well in my experience. Takes a lot of Sh#t stuff done inside the box to minimise this.
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Post by pauld on Jan 1, 2020 19:11:19 GMT
Personal taste though isn't it? I think a lot of people like Harbeth for the same reason, they don't want it too explicit. Whereas I like that trait. I don't get listener fatigue, but if the sound is bland and smoothed over that's when I get bored and switch it off. I think listening fatigue is mostly a problem with the amplification anyway. A lot of amplifiers don't have that purity of tone that the best ones do. You don't realise it until you hear an amp that has it. Or can be bad amp/speaker match. I would have agreed with you entirely until 2 years ago. Since then I replaced every aspect of the system before finally realising that my main problem was the speakers. The Focal's were just too bright for my liking. They were fine for short bursts of listening but didn't work for any length of time and anyone with a slightly raspy voice such as James Taylor just didn't work. The Exposure amps I used had a great reputation at the time of purchase in the 1990's and were excellent for what they were, but did struggle to drive the Focal's well. The Belles integrated amp i use now on the other hand had no problem driving them whatsoever and did improve things immensely, but the balance of the Focal's was not for me. I suspect I would prefer the Sopra and Kanta ranges as they have been toned down to suit Naim amplification and therefore aren't as bright, but my fear would be they would lose a level of detail that the Electra range had as a result. My Quadral's have all of the detail and more of the Focal's, but just present the sound in a much more easy to listen manner, without losing the boogy factor or becoming boring, in a manner that I would say Harbeth do. BTW, the worse speakers I have heard in recent time for being forward are Monitor Audio's, they make the Focal Electra's sound all fluffy in compassion. |
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Post by macca on Jan 1, 2020 20:11:37 GMT
Agree re Monitor Audio. The trick with them is to use something like Arcam amplification and then it all balances out. I don't know why. Their speakers from the 1980s were not so up front though, was only into the 1990s when they went in that direction.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 20:53:27 GMT
NOW THIS MAYBE CONTROVERSIAL......
BUT.
HARBETH ARE A COPY CAT CO.....
They aspire to reflect a number of BBC designs but loose out by some margin.
LS3/5A
Call back Dave...
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Post by pauld on Jan 2, 2020 13:57:32 GMT
Harrison, Dave, if you could take your petty squabbles away from my thread that would be much appreciated, thank you.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jan 2, 2020 14:03:59 GMT
Harrison, Dave, if you could take your petty squabbles away from my thread that would be much appreciated, thank you. Yes, let's keep on track here. Jamm...., er Harrison, start a thread on it you wish. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 19:39:35 GMT
So is the amplifier any good? beneath the who's soft pipe and slippers speakers hand bagging are the best?
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Post by pauld on Jan 15, 2020 19:46:40 GMT
I’d say so, yes. It’s certainly a lot better than the highly regarded Exposure amps I was using before. The Belles is just so much more musical, whilst allowing the music to flow smoothly a clearly. Bass it tight, fast and deep and it all sounds great.
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