Bigman80
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The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
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Post by Bigman80 on May 8, 2018 20:23:52 GMT
These have been around for donkeys years. I remember being a teenager and being told by the man in the shop that a Dual 505 would blow one away. Looking at them sat side by side. I didn't believe a word. Yay, for once I was right. Rarely does something well built sound worse than something less well built.
Yet again though, the "know it alls" derided the deck and gave it no kudos at all......until David Price. Credit too to Marco and AOS for their trail blazing. Hard to believe you could pick up a used one for £100-150.
I have yet to own one myself, but my mate has had a couple and they seem pretty good. I've started this thread in the hope of knowing more and hopefully attracting other posters to contribute, especially with pics.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2018 9:02:09 GMT
Marco and others have lavished ££££s on their 1210s
Mine is bog standard and sounds just fine.
Great decks originally designed for the audiophile but with the bomb proof build quality and direct drive attributes it soon became the DJ's weapon of choice.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2018 9:15:38 GMT
There are two approaches with the SL-1200/SL-1210. Plug & play, using it just as it comes and that works just fine for many. Or take the upgrade route. Simple improvements like changing headshells and mats maybe, are cheap enough, but from there onwards the upgrade path starts getting expensive.
I've had a couple myself that I upgraded modestly with different arms and the like, but in the end I bought a Toshiba SR-370 instead. A far superior deck to the standard Techie!
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Post by dsjr on Jul 4, 2018 9:28:55 GMT
David Price?  ? He wasn't the first, it was Ken Kessler twenty odd years ago who re-discovered the SL1200mk2 by getting a gold plated LE one and fitting a Lyra cartridge to it I remember... What's done it for me is that to accommodate a top MC cartridge, the arm needs to be replaced, the transformer needs to come out (it's not shielded as well as the old 1970's top techies were (the transformers used to be 'under' the deck plate) and before you know, you've spent thousands on platter and drive 'upgrades' that nobody's measured for proper effectiveness and only passed on by verbal recommendations and electronics and machining people keen to make a fast buck before disappearing when demand tailed off - sorry. Timestep in my opinion, were the only people to actually publish proper evidence for their claims at the time, but again, maybe prices were just a touch too high? All old history now. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2018 9:40:04 GMT
Funny how these modders went quiet. Mainly promoted by a certain forum and it's owner! From what I have heard briefly and from other's views the mods don't change the basic signature that much. If you put a better arm on, there is bound to be some improvement. I think the new G and GR has killed this but Timestep are still offering mods with the new timetep arm on a GR being promoted at the last Bristol show.
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Bigman80
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The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 4, 2018 10:12:52 GMT
Can we please stay away from the references to AoS and its personalities please, oblique or otherwise. It adds little to what is a good subject for discusion in its own right.
I’m not personally into modding stuff. With the Technics, there isn’t much left of the original if you go a long way down the modding route. I’d rather just buy another deck.
I also wonder about it as a long term investment. Unless you buy an already modded one and let someone else take the hit, you could be deep in the hole financially. Why go there when you can buy something you’d get your money back from? Buy an SP10 if you want a technics and want it better than a 1200/1210.
You don’t see may modded ones for sale, which could be because owners are happy. It could also be because nobody wants to take a big loss. Hard to say.
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Bigman80
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The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 4, 2018 10:17:17 GMT
David Price? ? He wasn't the first, it was Ken Kessler twenty odd years ago who re-discovered the SL1200mk2 by getting a gold plated LE one and fitting a Lyra cartridge to it I remember... What's done it for me is that to accommodate a top MC cartridge, the arm needs to be replaced, the transformer needs to come out (it's not shielded as well as the old 1970's top techies were (the transformers used to be 'under' the deck plate) and before you know, you've spent thousands on platter and drive 'upgrades' that nobody's measured for proper effectiveness and only passed on by verbal recommendations and electronics and machining people keen to make a fast buck before disappearing when demand tailed off - sorry. Timestep in my opinion, were the only people to actually publish proper evidence for their claims at the time, but again, maybe prices were just a touch too high? All old history now. I didn’t know that either. I only remember David Price. But then I never liked HFN/RR. I found it dull and unappealing. Presentation was dreary and I didn’t like the reviewers style either. Having half the mag devoted to records/CDs was a big enough turn offf in its own right. I think I bought one copy and that’s it. Still better than What Hifi I suppose. Maybe others who missed KKs exploits were similarly disinterested in the mag. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2018 10:25:27 GMT
I also wonder about it as a long term investment. Yes. I suspect it's similar to the situation with used cars. If you see one that's obviously modded, the inclination is to walk away. Also, there's no telling how well done any modifications ('upgrades') may have been done. The same will likely apply to all the hundreds of modified Lenco's out there too. |
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Post by macca on Jul 4, 2018 11:14:22 GMT
I've heard a few modded technics decks and have a couple of standard ones myself.
Putting a better arm on does make a big difference, well, big enough to be worthwhile. Likewise different mats are a noticeable change. Some of the other mods like the bearing and platter I am sceptical about. I don't really think they are necessary, but that's a guess, not a statement of fact.
The modded decks I have heard are up there with the best decks I have ever heard so I wouldn't be too quick to go down the 'why not buy a better deck to begin with' route.
Actually thinking about it all the best decks I have heard have been heavily user-modded, whether they be Technics, Rega, Thorens, Lenco etc.
Maybe if you buy one of these £20K super decks you don't need to mod it but that's a lot more expensive than buying an SL1200 and doing all the mods, you will also take a bigger hit on it if you sell it.
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Post by savvypaul on Jul 4, 2018 11:23:13 GMT
I applied some after-market mods to a Rega Planar - subplatter, dual pulley, white belts, acrylic platter. Some improvements but didn't get me to where I wanted to be. When I sold it, I returned the deck to factory spec and sold off the mods separately.
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Post by macca on Jul 4, 2018 11:37:10 GMT
pal of mine came into some money and wanted to upgrade his NAD 5120 deck (who wouldn't?)
He wanted a Rega Planar 3. I told him to get a technics SL1200 instead. At the time they were both around the same money second hand. But he insisted on the Rega, so I got him a Rega. Proper 1980s one in mint condition.
When it arrived and he compared it to the technics he was a bit shocked. the difference between them in terms of engineering is not small. Sound-wise I personally think they both have their strengths and weaknesses. But it was the difference in build quality that really upset him.
I think that is the main reason that the Technics is far better as a platform for modifications.
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Bigman80
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The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,398
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 4, 2018 11:38:24 GMT
I applied some after-market mods to a Rega Planar - subplatter, dual pulley, white belts, acrylic platter. Some improvements but didn't get me to where I wanted to be. When I sold it, I returned the deck to factory spec and sold off the mods separately. Definitlely the best way to go. Just out of curiosity. Was there any one mod that stood out as a significant step up? I know there are lots of opinions about such mods. I haven’t tried a single one. A mate went the split slab route years ago amd thightnit made no difference. |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,398
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 4, 2018 11:43:38 GMT
The stock 1200/1210 is certainly well built and in its day at the price it sold for, it was a stand out bargain. Yet so few even considered giving it a listen, me included. Richer sounds we’re selling the, for £249 in the 80s and a Rega 3 was £188.
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Post by savvypaul on Jul 4, 2018 11:53:59 GMT
I applied some after-market mods to a Rega Planar - subplatter, dual pulley, white belts, acrylic platter. Some improvements but didn't get me to where I wanted to be. When I sold it, I returned the deck to factory spec and sold off the mods separately. Definitlely the best way to go. Just out of curiosity. Was there any one mod that stood out as a significant step up? I know there are lots of opinions about such mods. I haven’t tried a single one. A mate went the split slab route years ago amd thightnit made no difference. The subplatter was the biggest musical improvement, but expensive (GrooveTracer). The dual pulley (Michael Lim) was easily the best 'sound per pound'. The platter (I forgot, it was 'Delrin' rather than acrylic) was a slight improvement but to my mind more a change of presentation than obviously 'better'. |
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Post by dsjr on Jul 4, 2018 11:54:45 GMT
I went back further and had a couple of SL1500's. Both arms needed the bearings fettling and the once good exit cables were failing, soreplaced with Van Damme pro patch, which seemed to work well (Audio Origami used it too). With posher headshell, LID OFF and an extra cork mat to get the fixed height tonearm level again, the sound was excellent. I sold my first one to a local pal and would rather like to get it back as it's not being used due to family commitments. The lack of quartz locking makes no negative difference as torque is high enough for up to 3g trackers if necessary and no overshoot if deliberately slowed, unlike the cheapo Matsu*shitta* OEM motors they sold at the time...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2018 6:57:26 GMT
very good deck imho...smooth with killer bass.
little bearing rumble though..wiped the floor with my lp12 lingo ekos arkiv i know that..lp12 was set up by doug bradey btw.
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? He wasn't the first, it was Ken Kessler twenty odd years ago who re-discovered the SL1200mk2 by getting a gold plated LE one and fitting a Lyra cartridge to it I remember...
