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Post by antonio on Jan 4, 2019 8:13:43 GMT
You can argue all day on the subject of immigration, but the uk has allowed nearly everyone in, good or bad, and its' changed the country forever. Changing our immigration laws now is like 'closing the stable door after the horse has bolted'.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2019 8:22:38 GMT
You can argue all day on the subject of immigration, but the uk has allowed nearly everyone in, good or bad, and its' changed the country forever. Changing our immigration laws now is like 'closing the stable door after the horse has bolted'. All done in the name of capitalism. Cheap labour to keep costs down and suppress earnings. Treason in other words. Wilful acts against The People! |
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Post by savvypaul on Jan 4, 2019 9:06:23 GMT
I've never seen anyone call for completely open UK borders to the whole world. Even under EU FOM there are still controls and restrictions that can and are used by many EU member states. I always saw FOM as a primarily economic initiative (with a side serving of individual freedom) rather than a question of morality. You just don't know enough nutters  LOL! You don't take any notice of nutters, do you? |
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Post by nonuffin on Jan 4, 2019 9:15:37 GMT
You can argue all day on the subject of immigration, but the uk has allowed nearly everyone in, good or bad, and its' changed the country forever. Changing our immigration laws now is like 'closing the stable door after the horse has bolted'. All done in the name of capitalism. Cheap labour to keep costs down and suppress earnings. Treason in other words. Wilful acts against The People! Spot on Geoff.
The open door policy was dreamed up in a naive attempt to combat the ageing population problem, but they never once thought to think things through as usual and realised what the consequences were.
I am not native british myself and can clearly recall being called a "bloody foreigner" when I was growing up, suffered prejudice myself by the bucketful so I have no tolerance for that these days. I don't care is someone has skin that is purple with green stripes, as I judge people the way they act and behave, not solely by the colour of their skin.
What galls me most is that the vast majority of immigrants care not one iota about the UK's pension problem as they send vast amounts of money back to their homelands to look after their own. That volume of cash escaping is not monitored or regulated and one day our idiot government will realise they have an even bigger issue to deal with when there is no money left. Couple that with the advances in artificial intelligence and there will soon be a huge surplus of unskilled people available to work who have no means of earning money. The Sh#t really will hit the fan when that day arrives.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2019 9:40:28 GMT
"That volume of cash escaping is not monitored or regulated and one day our idiot government will realise they have an even bigger issue to deal with when there is no money left."
Our 'idiot government' know exactly what the score is. Real behind the scenes policy is controlled by foreign money. Huge multinational/global concerns that make big bucks running businesses on the cheap here and charging us fortunes for essential services. When the bubble bursts, they'll just move on to the next 'cash cow' economy they can control, leaving us with the wreckage of our country!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2019 10:02:47 GMT
The bastard's
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Post by savvypaul on Jan 4, 2019 16:25:01 GMT
actually i got one good mate here from kurdistan. he drinks he muff dives eats pork i wind him up ofc but he does as we all do.. can u imagine moving to iraq and then preaching christian values ..you're head would be removed before the sun went down True, there is systemised persecution of Christians in many Middle East countries. I blame the dictators and their regimes for that, but not the middle-eastern peoples who are trying to flee from those regimes. You are correct that the West is far more tolerant, but our governments have been slow to act against persecution of Christians overseas. |
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Post by macca on Jan 4, 2019 17:50:27 GMT
You just don't know enough nutters LOL! You don't take any notice of nutters, do you? Not unless they're making laws. Regrettably they are. |
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Post by savvypaul on Jan 5, 2019 9:42:27 GMT
LOL! You don't take any notice of nutters, do you? Not unless they're making laws. Regrettably they are. Ahh...Tory MPs. I see what you mean. |
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Post by macca on Jan 5, 2019 9:53:05 GMT
No, the tories are not a problem in that respect. They just want your money. They're bastards but you know where you are with them. It's the social engineering I have a problem with and that tends to come from the other lot.
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Post by savvypaul on Jan 5, 2019 10:15:23 GMT
No, the tories are not a problem in that respect. They just want your money. They're bastards but you know where you are with them. It's the social engineering I have a problem with and that tends to come from the other lot. The 'other lot' haven't made any laws for more than 8 years... |
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Post by macca on Jan 5, 2019 10:54:38 GMT
But the 13 years prior to that when they were making laws changed the general direction of travel and that still has an influence now.
In particular the obsession with 'race', sexuality and equality of opportunity/outcome has thrown up some unintended consequences. The greatest irony is that one of those unintended outcomes has been Brexit.
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Post by savvypaul on Jan 5, 2019 11:09:29 GMT
But the 13 years prior to that when they were making laws changed the general direction of travel and that still has an influence now. In particular the obsession with 'race', sexuality and equality of opportunity/outcome has thrown up some unintended consequences. The greatest irony is that one of those unintended outcomes has been Brexit. I understand both sides of the argument. Progress will only be made when all points of view are respected. |
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Post by macca on Jan 5, 2019 11:16:42 GMT
So never then |
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Post by savvypaul on Jan 5, 2019 11:31:25 GMT
So never then It often feels that way...I know. |
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Post by macca on Jan 5, 2019 12:06:22 GMT
It is that way and will always be so. It's the idealists who are the problem, the people who think they can change the world. All the great monsters of history have been idealists. If we were all cynical and apathetic and ignored them until they gave up and got a life we'd all be better off.
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Post by savvypaul on Jan 5, 2019 12:13:24 GMT
It is that way and will always be so. It's the idealists who are the problem, the people who think they can change the world. All the great monsters of history have been idealists. If we were all cynical and apathetic and ignored them until they gave up and got a life we'd all be better off. We need realists and idealists. The problem comes when we lose the balance between them. |
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Post by macca on Jan 5, 2019 13:00:08 GMT
It is that way and will always be so. It's the idealists who are the problem, the people who think they can change the world. All the great monsters of history have been idealists. If we were all cynical and apathetic and ignored them until they gave up and got a life we'd all be better off. We need realists and idealists. That's where we disagree then. Idealists just fill people's heads with all sorts of fool notions about having a perfect world and that's where the problem starts. Life will never be easy or fair and we shouldn't want it to be. In a perfect world there would be no hardship, no struggle, and we need hardship and struggle. Without them we cannot progress as individuals, we never grow up. There are plenty of silver spoon types around who demonstrate that. Never had to spend a day in their lives and it shows. Donald Trump is a perfect example. Jeremy Corbyn is another one. |
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Post by savvypaul on Jan 5, 2019 14:04:24 GMT
We need realists and idealists. That's where we disagree then. Idealists just fill people's heads with all sorts of fool notions about having a perfect world and that's where the problem starts. Life will never be easy or fair and we shouldn't want it to be. In a perfect world there would be no hardship, no struggle, and we need hardship and struggle. Without them we cannot progress as individuals, we never grow up. There are plenty of silver spoon types around who demonstrate that. Never had to spend a day in their lives and it shows. Donald Trump is a perfect example. Jeremy Corbyn is another one. That's too simplistic, for me. Striving to create fairness and equality of opportunity is a pragmatic approach to progress. Of course we can't change everything overnight. Hence, my comment about balance. A leader's attitude toward societal progress is more important to me than the class they were born into. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2019 18:42:33 GMT
HITLER........?
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Post by macca on Jan 5, 2019 18:58:31 GMT
That's where we disagree then. Idealists just fill people's heads with all sorts of fool notions about having a perfect world and that's where the problem starts. Life will never be easy or fair and we shouldn't want it to be. In a perfect world there would be no hardship, no struggle, and we need hardship and struggle. Without them we cannot progress as individuals, we never grow up. There are plenty of silver spoon types around who demonstrate that. Never had to spend a day in their lives and it shows. Donald Trump is a perfect example. Jeremy Corbyn is another one. That's too simplistic, for me. Striving to create fairness and equality of opportunity is a pragmatic approach to progress. Of course we can't change everything overnight. Hence, my comment about balance. A leader's attitude toward societal progress is more important to me than the class they were born into. I don't agree that there is any such thing as societal progress. There are fashions and fads. That's the problem, you think it is possible to move towards a utopian society like in Star Trek or something when in fact that is just a dangerous fantasy that can never possibly be realised. We're just a species of ape, man. Get over it. |
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Post by macca on Jan 5, 2019 19:01:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2019 19:11:06 GMT
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Post by savvypaul on Jan 5, 2019 19:18:17 GMT
That's too simplistic, for me. Striving to create fairness and equality of opportunity is a pragmatic approach to progress. Of course we can't change everything overnight. Hence, my comment about balance. A leader's attitude toward societal progress is more important to me than the class they were born into. I don't agree that there is any such thing as societal progress. There are fashions and fads. That's the problem, you think it is possible to move towards a utopian society like in Star Trek or something when in fact that is just a dangerous fantasy that can never possibly be realised. We're just a species of ape, man. Get over it. The idea of what can be achieved changes with each generation. No, I don't imagine a utopian society...just one that steadily improves, albeit with some setbacks along the way. You think that society has not progressed in 2,000 years? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2019 19:30:53 GMT
He were a bit o a lad, weren't he ? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2019 20:01:30 GMT
he had some great ideas.
just went a bit ott with them.
2047 europe will be an islamic state.
hopefully i wont be around by then
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2019 20:18:24 GMT
2047.......
Why not 2046 ?
One shouldn't Rush these things but 2112 sounds fekin ace to me......!!!!!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2019 20:22:43 GMT
Don't worry, plans are underway to nuke everything between Greece and Australia!
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Post by macca on Jan 6, 2019 9:33:16 GMT
I don't agree that there is any such thing as societal progress. There are fashions and fads. That's the problem, you think it is possible to move towards a utopian society like in Star Trek or something when in fact that is just a dangerous fantasy that can never possibly be realised. We're just a species of ape, man. Get over it. The idea of what can be achieved changes with each generation. No, I don't imagine a utopian society...just one that steadily improves, albeit with some setbacks along the way. You think that society has not progressed in 2,000 years? Not in the slightest. I'm interested to know why you think it has? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2019 10:13:05 GMT
Well technology has progressed to the point that society can now (2000 years latter) kill people with guns and bombs as well as swords and spears...!!!
That's Progress.
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