Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,152
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 29, 2018 15:22:06 GMT
I’ve heard great sounding kit that has measured badly. I’ve also heard stuff that measured well and didn’t sound too hot, but there are so many variables. Im not sure how much store I put by measurements in general. I guess it depends on what the measurements are. Things like, amp power and speaker sensitivity/impedance can matter. Frequency response is less important to me. Loads of other things such as distortion are behind me really.
Do you look at measurements before buying? Would any measured performance aspect sway you one way or another? Or is there little correlation between good sound and good measured performance?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2018 15:27:44 GMT
I don't care anymore. If it sounds good to my ears I'm happy. The only thing that scares me the most is speaker impedance load.
S.
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Post by nonuffin on Oct 29, 2018 15:30:23 GMT
I take note of specifications for compatability purposes but I wouldn't dream of taking any notice at all of meaningless wiggly graphs.
I remember the days when reviews were carried out by plonking a microphone in front of a speaker and looking for the perfect straight line graph and criticising anything that didn't meet that ideal. Thank goodness we left all that shite behind.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2018 16:27:59 GMT
I don't generally buy manufactured gear any more but when I bought my first Naim system in 1997 I took no notice of them what so ever. Just turned up at dealers heard half a dozen different makes of kit and chose my favourite (at the time).
When I made my speakers I didn't take any measurements. Wouldn't know how to even if I had the right kit to do it. And I have no intention of doing any.
I do however look at specs when buying components (capacitors, resistors, regulators, transformers, diodes etc etc) as you need to stay within certain limits - put a low esr cap on the end of a regulator and hear the sibilance.
I do however respect someone's right to worship at the measurement/spec alter if they so wish.
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Post by macca on Oct 29, 2018 16:28:13 GMT
I use measurements and specs to narrow down the choice and sometimes rule things out. You can't try everything and you don't want to waste time with stuff you're never going to get on with. If you understand what the graphs are showing you they are not meaningless. If you already know what measurements correspond to what you like it can be a great help.
How do you know if a speaker will have the sort of bass response you are looking for, for example? I don't like a toppy, bass-shy sound and my room is pretty large, so if I'm looking for speakers then I already know I can discount any that are not flat down to 40Hz.
They may be great in many other ways but I know from experience I'll get fed up of the light bass eventually. Saves a lot of time going down dead-ends. Of course I spent a lot of time going down dead ends to learn this lesson in the first place.
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Post by antonio on Oct 29, 2018 19:22:30 GMT
Never looked at measurements before buying, only listened to the equipment. I have to admit I don't understand tonearm to cartridge compatibility, have read the Denon 103 will not work with a Rega arm, then someone pipes up, works fine on my tt.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2018 19:37:57 GMT
It will work. Just not optimally. The DL-103 likes a fair bit of arm mass. |
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Post by antonio on Oct 30, 2018 5:49:13 GMT
I can understand that Geoff, and the Denon/Rega was only an example, but there have been many other combinations I have read about, mainly on VE. I have seen mathematical calculations to verify whether or not a cartridges will work with a certain tonearm, are these things set in stone or are there exceptions? If there are exceptions then one may as well just listen to the combination that takes your fancy and forget about measurements.
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Post by macca on Oct 30, 2018 8:27:30 GMT
I can understand that Geoff, and the Denon/Rega was only an example, but there have been many other combinations I have read about, mainly on VE. I have seen mathematical calculations to verify whether or not a cartridges will work with a certain tonearm, are these things set in stone or are there exceptions? If there are exceptions then one may as well just listen to the combination that takes your fancy and forget about measurements. if a combination takes your fancy then there's no need to be concerned with measurements. Where they can be useful is in working out if a combination will take your fancy. Or more accurately if it is worth bothering to try it.
A lot of people say that things 'work fine' when they are in fact sub-optimal. Depends entirely on your frame of reference.
Measurements can also be useful in determining what is foo and what isn't. Quite easy to make a tweak and think you hear a difference when in fact nothing has changed. Plenty of expensive products out there that do jack Sh#t , measurements reveal this. Doesn't stop some people wasting their money of course but at least the information is there for anyone who wants to pay attention and doesn't view achieving good sound reproduction as a faith-based process.
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Post by pauld on Oct 31, 2018 11:00:47 GMT
I honestly couldn't give two hoots how it measures. As long as it sound good then that is fine by me.
Reminds me of a time I went to a Hifi show based in Brighton. There was a guy there saying all about the measurements stating his speakers went down to certain levels etc and had the measurements on the wall to prove it. The only problem was that they sounded the most bass light speaker I'd ever heard in my life, all top end sparkle and nothing else, so I argued that whilst they may go down to a lower level, they sounded shockingly bad, oh and didn't sound like they went down very deep at all.
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Post by macca on Oct 31, 2018 18:53:04 GMT
I had some speakers that were flat down to 40Hz and were only 12dB down at 20hz. Bought a big Rotel amp for them, sound was rubbish. Simple reason the Rotel was 60 wpc but it's power supply was weak so it didn't like rapid swings in impedance which the speakers had in spades. Result no bass, toppy sound but with a closed in top end. Swapped in a 50watt Cambridge Audio, top was not closed in but still no bass and the amp blew a fuse when I jacked up the volume trying to get some bass.
Put in a 50watt Linn LK100 - much better, it was not bothered by the impedance swings.
The Rotel I bought brand new at Superfi so couldn't take it back. Cost me £550 back when that was a lot of money. In the end I sold it to a mate who uses it with some Ruark Templars and it sounds mint.
That was a lesson to me since according to the mags who had reviewed the speakers a 50 watt amp was more than adequate. No mention of being able to supply current. So after that I started educating myself about how it all actually worked, and that meant I became much more of an objectivist in my outlook. Also meant I never spunked the thick end of £600 on something that won't do what I want it to again.
I don't think it's necessary to learn enough to be able to design and build the stuff but it is worth having a decent understanding of how it works. I see people advising that there's no need to understand any of it unless you are making it. How can it ever be a positive to not have knowledge about something? That's nuts.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 6:43:29 GMT
Learn enough about the parts that make up these things and you can then have a shot at fixing something if it goes pop.
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Post by macca on Nov 1, 2018 18:12:38 GMT
Learn enough about the parts that make up these things and you can then have a shot at fixing something if it goes pop. I bought a book on repairing CD players. It's the size of a phone book! Never read it. Might get round to it when I retire. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 19:21:17 GMT
Learn enough about the parts that make up these things and you can then have a shot at fixing something if it goes pop. I bought a book on repairing CD players. It's the size of a phone book! Never read it. Might get round to it when I retire. Whats it called ? Author ? There might not be any cdp's left by that time  |
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Post by macca on Nov 1, 2018 21:47:25 GMT
I've got about twenty of them so I'm not likely to run out in my lifetime I can't remember what the book is called, it's upstairs somewhere. Hardback, green cover, picture of some circuit boards on the front. Pretty much like every electronics book ever really. That's not much help I know. |
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