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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2018 6:13:24 GMT
Do they ? I wouldn't know. As usual with these things some folks say they do, some say they dont (or shouldn't).
Dac's are a different matter altogether however.
My cdp transport and digital parts are pretty well sorted. A separate regulator (LM317) for each chip, big ass transformer and good quality caps. Over the years people have modified the psu with r core transformers, super regulators etc. No sonic improvements reported worth talking about. It would seem it is a different world altogether when dealing with purely digital devices.
Discuss.
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Post by dsjr on Oct 12, 2018 6:23:15 GMT
Modern dacs, even very cheap ones do seem to accommodate all manner of donor transports, but the most important thing here *really* for me is how they operate - the user interface. I don't operate at the fussy end of the market though, so ymmv to be honest..
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Post by macca on Oct 12, 2018 6:35:59 GMT
Yes they do sound different and it is no mystery even though some still think it is.
It may only be sending noughts and ones going out as a signal but that signal is just electrical current, variations on the voltage level determine if a zero or a one is being transmitted. Noise is generated by the transport and transmitted with the signal.
If you are sending a Word document to a printer that doesn't matter but if you are sending a music signal then it does because you are going to listen to that, not look at it. The noise will go through all your components in the chain and be added to what is sent to the speakers, and the speakers will re-produce it along with the signal.
Noise and distortion added by all components is cumulative. Result is a higher noise floor that will mask the low level cues we need to hear to make the recording sound like the recording and not just generic sound.
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Post by antonio on Oct 12, 2018 8:16:54 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2018 8:35:21 GMT
I have two CD players that I use as transports and one dedicated CD transport. Through the same DAC, they each produce a different sound.
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Post by dsjr on Oct 12, 2018 10:50:57 GMT
I get a good sound from my digital gear, and transport differences don't really factor into things at all for me here - it shouldn't really as jitter was sorted out many years ago in mainstream products. I have a bodged late Philips CD723 player (a late one mentioned on a tweaking site) and that's not too hot before or after tweaking.
My gifted Denon 1015 isn't the best as a stand alone player, yet sounds all but identical to the wonderfully 'solid' 1520 player as a transport here if nowhere else and these are the same as the Sony CDP-01 I now have. Copious use of ferrites on the power supplies and mains leads, which may have a positive effect in separating the music from the mechanics - they do for me if nobody else...
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Post by macca on Oct 12, 2018 11:24:11 GMT
Yes, it isn't anything to do with jitter, it's noise as I explained above. Jitter is just a buzz word used to sell snake oil to mug punters. Even the first cd players ever made had no audible jitter.
Never tried ferrites but I suppose they are cheap and can't hurt.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 12, 2018 11:37:13 GMT
My input comes with all the caveats that this is only my own experience and my reservations regarding my aural memory.
My most relevant experience of transports was back in the early 90s. I had a DPA DAC which I used with a Denon 1520. I believed the mags about dedicated transports and sold the Denon to fund an Arcam 170. No way was it as good. The nearest I can get is to compare a 2 megapixel camera image to a 12 megapixel one. I put it down to the difference between 3 beam and single beam lasers, but have no evidence other than my hunch.
The only other bit of transport related experience I can give relates to the Rega Planet. Loads of people said it wasn’t a good partner for an external DAC and they were right. For some reason no DAC I tried really worked, including a few expensive DPAs which were great with other player I had.
So, based on my experience, I’d say transports do matter. Based on my complete lack of technical know-how, I’d also say I don’t have a clue why!
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Post by macca on Oct 12, 2018 13:00:39 GMT
Well I thought I'd given a pretty concise explanation of why but obviously not!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 12, 2018 14:06:13 GMT
Yeah it’s that pesky jitter, innit?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2018 14:32:00 GMT
With the Naim CD3.5 which I have, many over in the pfm diy room tried improving the digital side psu, regulators to lower noise as much as they could. Reports were of no difference to the sound coming out the other end. Improve the psu and regs on the dac or output stage and the story is completely different.
Sure, it must be good to keep noise to a minimum. Noise from the mains, noise from the rectification process, noise from other loads within the player, noise produced by the load and the impedance of the psu, interference from electromagnetic fields.
I might get a better handle on it when I play around with the silent switcher switch mode psu's (specially designed for high end audio use) I am planning on getting
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Post by macca on Oct 12, 2018 18:04:48 GMT
Must admit I don't know what the correlation is between better and more discrete power supplies and sound quality or even if the science allows for such a relationship, but from purely subjective listening and looking at the design of the kit and what has been done in terms of the power supplies it does seem to be what makes the difference between a ho-hum sound and something really special.
Ultimately noise and distortion is what it is all about. Reduce them you get closer to the recording and therefore better sound. Higher Bit depths, sample rates, jitter-busting devices, bitstream, DSD, green pens, whatever, that is all just marketing bollocks and imagination.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2018 20:05:40 GMT
I put a fancy clock in my cdp along with a dedicated psu. Was supposed to reduce jitter. I did all that in one go so dont know what did what but it was the best mod i have ever done to a cdp. Naim's cdp's get bigger transformers and caps as you go up the range. Also they get more independant power supplies when you add the external psu's. Also output stages become discreet rather than with opamps. The regs stay the same though. Good old LM317(positive) and LM337 (negative). I did a few mods to the lm317 in my cdp. For the 5V regs you can replace the output set resistor for a couple of ordinary green LED's. Much less noise and lower output impedance. See here if interestedI have done it to two of the regulators in mine but maybe i should do the ones on the purely digital chips as well. Will report back my findings.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 13, 2018 6:24:27 GMT
I had Deltran equipped transports and DACs. I can’t say I noticed much improvement although I did like most of their DACs. I think I liked PDM2 the best but I’ve had so many I get confused.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2018 14:46:12 GMT
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Post by macca on Oct 16, 2018 17:04:58 GMT
It does but price is way too high for me. Please don't tell me it has valves in it or upsampling that you can't switch off.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2018 5:19:40 GMT
Never heard a cdp with valves in it. I keep reading the old lampizator site and wondering.........
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 18, 2018 20:46:50 GMT
I’m probably going to pick up a CD transport for a second system. I’d like it to be well built and cheap as possible. Any ideas? Or should I just go for a 1 box player?
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Post by macca on Oct 18, 2018 20:58:24 GMT
They all tend to be quite high end so they still cost a bit more than they really should used. The Teac efforts with the white buttons that light up are pretty cool. Always fancied one of them myself.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2018 21:14:35 GMT
I have a Meridian 507 that I use as a transport and a Trichord Research Digital Turntable transport, but most of the time, I seem to end up using the comparatively cheap Pioneer PD-S505 Precision CD player as my main transport. It just makes a really pleasant sounding transport that also sounds pretty nice as a stand alone player. A bargain really, although prices asked seem to vary between £100 to £200.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Oct 18, 2018 23:51:19 GMT
They all tend to be quite high end so they still cost a bit more than they really should used. The Teac efforts with the white buttons that light up are pretty cool. Always fancied one of them myself. About a dozen times, I’ve missed out on a Kenwood DP-X9010 so I may look for one. They sometimes go really cheaply too. I would’ve loved a Micromega Mocrodrive too, but they are realy rare.
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