Bigman80
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The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 24, 2018 3:19:38 GMT
Go back a few years and we had Garrards, Lowthers and the like going for peanuts. Same for things like the Pye Mozart amd many other vintage amps. Nowadays they all go for big bucks. We’ve seen similar trends with the Nait amd LS3/5As which are reaching disproportionate sums. So what’s next?
I have seen so much Chome Bumper and Olive Naim head to the Far East, I reckon it’s a definite candidate. Exposure too has seen a few items rise. Linn speakers such as Kan, Sara and Isobariks will also see a rise in prices, I reckon. Same will go for contemporaries of the Nait. People seem to like retro minimalist integrateds.
American Muscle amps have gone up quite a bit in the last 5 years and I think this will continue. Turntables? Well I think the vinyl trend may dwindle but 80s superdecks will continue to go up in value. Voyd, Pink, Linn, Roksan and Townshend should al be safe bets.
If we’d had the foresight to snap up a shedload of Garrards and the like, we would have been done better than investing in property or stocks. I wonder if this will be the case over the next 10-15 years. If only I had space to store it, I’d have a go at buying and storing some of this stuff.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 7:44:25 GMT
CD and MiniDisc decks. Any proper quality British built amps that haven't been outsourced from China like Creek and Quad are now for instance.
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Post by nonuffin on Sept 24, 2018 9:52:56 GMT
I think these resurgencies in interest will continue only while us load of old fogeys are still around and who still remember these products when they were new. Once we are all pushing up the daisies then the mythology and interest will soon fade away.
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Post by macca on Sept 24, 2018 11:30:07 GMT
I think these resurgencies in interest will continue only while us load of old fogeys are still around and who still remember these products when they were new. Once we are all pushing up the daisies then the mythology and interest will soon fade away. I agree. It's a shame, except with the Linn speakers obviously, it would be a favour to humanity if we burnt them all now.
I don't think they hold value anyway, I've seen a few people struggling to sell Isobariks recently.
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Post by dsjr on Sept 25, 2018 11:30:50 GMT
Had lots to think about lately and Isobariks is one of them... i don't think we had amps able enough to drive the 3 ohm load until the mid 80's and by that time they were past their best i currently feel. The Naim 250 in bolt up form was a sweetie when working right, but the CB 250 was harsh toned (better after a fifteen year service I remember) and the 135's weren't always comprehensively better when new.
Today, we've got vintage Krells (in the UK from around 1985) which though not quite the current pumpers in original form (as the 80 and siblings were), they could drive the load without effort - and modern preamps are better too I reckon. Many of the better pro amps from this period (Adcom and some Crowns) can drive the load well also (the earlier QMI Gain cell was the best I EVER heard passive Briks but these self-destruct by all accounts) and although we sold the Nakamichi PA7 models with 'Briks, I'm not altogether sure it was a perfect marrriage and this model took two hours to stabilise it's banks of output transistors (why I'm still suspicious of amps thus equipped).
Macca, ACTIVE, Linn speakers may still not have been perfect, but my Gawd they were a damned sight better all-round and VERY clear. Keildh's came to life with a couple or three LK140's driving them actively (less grainy than Lk100's imo) and Ninka's were a hidden gem later on even in passive mode. Early active 'briks could sound enchanting and deeply involving and a proper working set here would sound good in this room I think. Espeks were good too when active, the last remaining boom disappearing with the extra bass control.
As for Kabers, Keltiks, Sara's and Kans, what pleased my ears then wouldn't now, so I'll say nowt. A pair of early bi-wire passive Keltiks with later tweeters sounded much better and the bass didn't sound off on this pair either, but memories of a later set run active in a pal's spare bedroom sounded horrible i recall. All in the room again I suspect, although the original mesh tweeters were ghastly for neutral sources imo.
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Post by macca on Sept 25, 2018 12:13:44 GMT
Most of the Linn-Naim speakers were just cheap 2 ways with lumpy FR and off the shelf drive units in bog-standard cabinets sold at a premium price and hyped up by the magazines. If there's an exception I've not heard it (never heard the Kaber for example).
A speaker that only sounds good with certain types of recording is a poor speaker by definition. But as Dave Brooks (MCRU) says, most people like to be told what to buy. Demand it, even. Much better to rely on what the 'highly experienced, highly respected reviewers' have to say about something than look at the measurements (if you can find any, always a bad sign if you can't) and the quality/cost of materials and make up your own mind if it's a good buy.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 25, 2018 16:13:45 GMT
Most of the Linn-Naim speakers were just cheap 2 ways with lumpy FR and off the shelf drive units in bog-standard cabinets sold at a premium price and hyped up by the magazines. If there's an exception I've not heard it (never heard the Kaber for example). A speaker that only sounds good with certain types of recording is a poor speaker by definition. But as Dave Brooks (MCRU) says, most people like to be told what to buy. Demand it, even. Much better to rely on what the 'highly experienced, highly respected reviewers' have to say about something than look at the measurements (if you can find any, always a bad sign if you can't) and the quality/cost of materials and make up your own mind if it's a good buy. Kabers were seriously well built. Sadly they sounded horrible.. Kans were quite well put together but Saras and Isobariks were insanely well built. The Hiquphon tweeter was also used in a number of Linn speakers and it’s good (and not cheap). The “bull bar” tweeter used in later Kabers, Keilidhs and other Linns is also a good tweeter. I don’t know who made it though. The ceramic dome tweeter it replaced almost took your fillings out.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 25, 2018 16:17:47 GMT
Had lots to think about lately and Isobariks is one of them... i don't think we had amps able enough to drive the 3 ohm load until the mid 80's and by that time they were past their best i currently feel. The Naim 250 in bolt up form was a sweetie when working right, but the CB 250 was harsh toned (better after a fifteen year service I remember) and the 135's weren't always comprehensively better when new. Today, we've got vintage Krells (in the UK from around 1985) which though not quite the current pumpers in original form (as the 80 and siblings were), they could drive the load without effort - and modern preamps are better too I reckon. Many of the better pro amps from this period (Adcom and some Crowns) can drive the load well also (the earlier QMI Gain cell was the best I EVER heard passive Briks but these self-destruct by all accounts) and although we sold the Nakamichi PA7 models with 'Briks, I'm not altogether sure it was a perfect marrriage and this model took two hours to stabilise it's banks of output transistors (why I'm still suspicious of amps thus equipped). Macca, ACTIVE, Linn speakers may still not have been perfect, but my Gawd they were a damned sight better all-round and VERY clear. Keildh's came to life with a couple or three LK140's driving them actively (less grainy than Lk100's imo) and Ninka's were a hidden gem later on even in passive mode. Early active 'briks could sound enchanting and deeply involving and a proper working set here would sound good in this room I think. Espeks were good too when active, the last remaining boom disappearing with the extra bass control. As for Kabers, Keltiks, Sara's and Kans, what pleased my ears then wouldn't now, so I'll say nowt. A pair of early bi-wire passive Keltiks with later tweeters sounded much better and the bass didn't sound off on this pair either, but memories of a later set run active in a pal's spare bedroom sounded horrible i recall. All in the room again I suspect, although the original mesh tweeters were ghastly for neutral sources imo. Would’ve loved to hear Keltiks. Again REALLY well put together. Bolt down 250 is a sweetie and I suspect would be good even with non Naim preamps. Not the last word in resolution or grip but it was a lovely thing to listen to. I still liked the CB 250 for its grip and excitement, but the original had something the CB lost.
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Post by dsjr on Sept 25, 2018 16:22:32 GMT
I dunno... The early chipboard active 'Briks I heard (quite a few sets in my career and one notable set was Jimmy H's used with bolt-up 250's and three KSA50's) could sound excellent and two of these systems I heard on orchestral and chamber music as well as pop and rock... Passive 'Briks had colourations, but I still sneakily feel the driving amps couldn't do the load justice back then, not even 135's! I readily admit you have to choose very carefully - passive models - as no two were ever quite the same mostly, but there was a golden era just after the vertical XLR sockets were introduced (March '83) till late '84 when KEF got the midrange drivers about right and they sounded really nice at this time (I know an immaculate walnut pair that's been boxed in storage for thirty years, but no idea how they'd sound today after all this time - the grilles would have perished in storage no doubt.
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Post by dsjr on Sept 25, 2018 16:27:47 GMT
Westie, Keltiks used cheap far eastern bass and mid drivers (I was told the bass driver was not the TDL 'Racetrack' but a knock-off) and the front baffle was a plastic moulding. They sounded horrible at first, as I remember early Klout amps sounding not far off the LK280 on which they were apparently based in terms of circuit topology. The Klout did get better during its life and one or two changes are mentioned in it's product history, but the last time I heard the Keltiks (I seem to remember it was at an early noughties Bristol show) they sounded as coloured and 'grainy' as ever I'd heard them - I'd heard the last Kairn (brilliant supply)/Klout in the store I was then working at and it wasn't them causing the issue...
Is it alright to talk about long obsolete stuff like this? It seems to piss many off if I do I think. All I know about current Linn stuff is second hand in that the amps are apparently good but not the speakers - even Cymbiosis with their product allegiances don't stock Linn speakers I gather although the Kudos things they and my local dealer stock were pretty shite to my ears when I heard them (Naim and Chord driven)...
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Post by macca on Sept 25, 2018 17:36:43 GMT
I'd be happy for Linn amps to become collectable, my LK100 will start going up in value. Actually when I bought the LK1 off ebay to partner it the auction turned into a bidding war. It was a mint, boxed example though, one owner from new. A doctor. I ended up paying £150 which was my top line. That was about 14 years ago but it was still an old and not especially rated pre-amp even back then. Never underestimate the influence a badge can have on the price, and I think Linn's laurels are still mostly intact with the mass of punters. It was always, along with Naim, considered to be aspirational kit, the kit of the wealthy and successful, and that cachet doesn't die easily.
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Post by dsjr on Sept 25, 2018 17:57:55 GMT
LK100's certainly don't seem to be dropping...
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Bigman80
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The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 25, 2018 18:44:24 GMT
LK100's certainly don't seem to be dropping... They need droppImg.....from a great height. Gutless, scratchy things to me.
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Bigman80
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The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,434
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 25, 2018 18:54:58 GMT
Westie, Keltiks used cheap far eastern bass and mid drivers (I was told the bass driver was not the TDL 'Racetrack' but a knock-off) and the front baffle was a plastic moulding. They sounded horrible at first, as I remember early Klout amps sounding not far off the LK280 on which they were apparently based in terms of circuit topology. The Klout did get better during its life and one or two changes are mentioned in it's product history, but the last time I heard the Keltiks (I seem to remember it was at an early noughties Bristol show) they sounded as coloured and 'grainy' as ever I'd heard them - I'd heard the last Kairn (brilliant supply)/Klout in the store I was then working at and it wasn't them causing the issue... Is it alright to talk about long obsolete stuff like this? It seems to piss many off if I do I think. All I know about current Linn stuff is second hand in that the amps are apparently good but not the speakers - even Cymbiosis with their product allegiances don't stock Linn speakers I gather although the Kudos things they and my local dealer stock were pretty shite to my ears when I heard them (Naim and Chord driven)... Well, if taking about older hifi pisses people off, we are both making our share of enemies I think the drivers you mention were from Tonegen of Japan. Actually pretty well made when inspected. Heavy, cast baskets and solid construction. Not my fave sounding drivers though. The cabinets of all that range were really solid and sounded almost like stone when rapped. Keltiks were originally intended to retail for £750 as passives, but Ivor saw pound signs, quadrupled the price and saved money by omitting the crossover. At £750 their build would have been astonishing. Same for Kabers at their projected price point of £500. But none of that matters if they sound crap.
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Post by macca on Sept 25, 2018 19:28:04 GMT
LK100's certainly don't seem to be dropping... They need droppImg.....from a great height. Gutless, scratchy things to me. Funny, I'd say the opposite: plenty of meat on the bones but a bit veiled compared to the best. It could drive my Celestion A2 and that was no easy task, a number of lesser amps failed it including a Cambridge P70 and a big Rotel. Build quality is close to military-grade as well. Last time I looked, which was a few years ago, a minter was fetching £250 to £300. Output is 50w into 8 ohm and 80W into 4 ohm so a fairly stiff power supply.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 19:30:46 GMT
GOLDRING 1042.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 25, 2018 20:35:34 GMT
LK100's certainly don't seem to be dropping... They need droppImg.....from a great height. Gutless, scratchy things to me. LOL.😳
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