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Post by dsjr on Jul 17, 2019 18:56:24 GMT
Shane, ATC isn't too far from you is it? I'm never likely to hear any Graham speakers as BBC reproductions really aren't on my radar I'm afraid. I have Rogers BBC LS5/9's here and for want of a pair of boxes, they'll be up for sale tomorrow. I've now heard two different pairs of Falcon 3/5A's and can hear the response anomalies which just don't suit me. Try to hear brushed cymbals, where a good sensitive drummer can almost play tunes on them depending how he all but caresses them with the brushes. Most tweeters don't even come close to doing this justice ime. Macca, if you like 3/5A's then fine, but there again you dislike tiny boxes, so I'm beat there. The chap demming the Falcons last Friday to a chap absolutely loves them and honestly feels they're better than old ones. I'm afraid I don't find music enjoyable when it's played through a pair and they *certainly* won't pass the 'Karma Coma test' as the P3ESR's managed - just, when driven by a Croft 25/7 pair and I think a Rega CD player  |
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Post by macca on Jul 17, 2019 19:01:56 GMT
I wouldn't consider owning any but they always sound 'pleasant' to me, not horrid. That's why people use them isn't it?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 17, 2019 19:03:54 GMT
ATC is miles away in Gloucestershire. There's a dealer not too far away from me, and he's got some P3ESR's.
S.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 17, 2019 20:11:01 GMT
Shane, ATC isn't too far from you is it? I'm never likely to hear any Graham speakers as BBC reproductions really aren't on my radar I'm afraid. I have Rogers BBC LS5/9's here and for want of a pair of boxes, they'll be up for sale tomorrow. I've now heard two different pairs of Falcon 3/5A's and can hear the response anomalies which just don't suit me. Try to hear brushed cymbals, where a good sensitive drummer can almost play tunes on them depending how he all but caresses them with the brushes. Most tweeters don't even come close to doing this justice ime. Macca, if you like 3/5A's then fine, but there again you dislike tiny boxes, so I'm beat there. The chap demming the Falcons last Friday to a chap absolutely loves them and honestly feels they're better than old ones. I'm afraid I don't find music enjoyable when it's played through a pair and they *certainly* won't pass the 'Karma Coma test' as the P3ESR's managed - just, when driven by a Croft 25/7 pair and I think a Rega CD player I’m curious about ATC. My only experience is the passive SCM20 in my mates system. They did nothing for me, but given my views on past experiences being unreliable, I don't set much store by it. Just wondering are passive SCM20s pretty typical of ATC sound? I can’t see me wanting anything bigger. I liked the looks and build so they still kinda intrigue me. |
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Post by dsjr on Jul 17, 2019 22:19:58 GMT
My SCM20's were in 1992 and they replaced ES14's. No deep bass so scale was curtailed a bit, but mids were great and back then the top was superbly integrated. They demanded loads of watts though and they weren't too fussy from where - a £120 Sony integrated was around 100WPC and fine for the task and I started with a Quad 405-2 which nearly cooked itself into these and later, AVI 140W mono's which barely got warm.
After the 100A's, I eventually ended up with a pair of early 20ASL Pro's in heavy curvy cast cases and never really bonded with them as the upper mids were 'projected' monitor style. Current 11's seem better balanced, but I'd suggest plenty of power though to wake them up.
Current 20's are a different thing entirely and the current 19 is the 'domestic' model I think. Still a cast carcass in the now rectangular 20 and the active amp packs have been revised too I think, but no idea what they sound like and I don't think any domestic clients would be interested.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2019 4:44:40 GMT
Owned a pair of high impedance Audiomaster 'LS3/5a'.. Did nothing for me. & that tweeter  Dunno why the big deal with em tbh, they were not designed for full range Audio Speakerz anyway Sold em to a guy in singapore for mucchio cutter. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 31, 2019 6:45:37 GMT
Owned a pair of high impedance Audiomaster 'LS3/5a'.. Did nothing for me. & that tweeter Dunno why the big deal with em tbh, they were not designed for full range Audio Speakerz anyway Sold em to a guy in singapore for mucchio cutter. Only heard one pair briefly in the shop a long time ago. Sounded a bit pipe and slippers so never bothered more. They were superseded by the vastly superior Linn Kan anyway lol. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2019 7:28:25 GMT
Owned a pair of high impedance Audiomaster 'LS3/5a'.. Did nothing for me. & that tweeter Dunno why the big deal with em tbh, they were not designed for full range Audio Speakerz anyway Sold em to a guy in singapore for mucchio cutter. It's a fad or fashion to an extent. Much the same as has happened with the Goodmans Maxim, which now seem to have £500 upward asking prices (poxy little things). I've heard the LS3/5a many times and with one exception, was not impressed. |
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Post by dsjr on Aug 31, 2019 9:52:20 GMT
I almost intimately know the Audiomaster version as Robin Marshall's office was in the building and the factory was next door (a doorway was opened up in the stairwell to allow communication). In fairness, a hell of a lot of work went into selecting crossover components and in the calibration of completed samples, especially as the B110 main driver selection was already on one end of the production tolerance - you couldn't use just any production B110 I gather. This was before computer optimised testing, so if a batch went out of spec due to the B110 drift, Robin would personally pour over the plots and re-adjust the crossovers by hand to make them work to specification. if a Rogers 3/5A blew a bass driver, they just sent a random replacement so who knows how the repaired speaker turned out. Nobody made any money on the early samples as too much labour was involved in their build and testing - obviously very different now at £2400pr. As I said before I think, 3/5A's for BBC use had to be absolutely centre line spec so *every one* was the same (easy now for most speakers but not so then with hand doped drivers - the KEF units did have a little doping on, the white-belly 110's especially - Linn added more to them). BBC samples were identified by having XLR sockets on the back and not 4mm terminals and even more testing and tweaking went on to produce them.
It would appear that most BBC broadcast studios now use Dynaudio BM5A's in lieu of 3/5A or Harbeth P3's, which they did buy for a while. Similar kind of 'detailed' presentation with all the benefits of active drive. I think they're available for well under a grand the pair...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 1:36:27 GMT
Be a lot cheaper buying a pair of old Mission '731 Pro'  |
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Post by dsjr on Sept 1, 2019 10:14:00 GMT
I never got on with the smaller 73* models that I believe Robin also had a hand in designing, but the larger floor standing ones could sound really nice I remember. But then, I've never been a fan of tiny speakers, however they're spiked or whatever 
At this time (late 90's) Mission did some more garish 701/702/703 models and I'd love to hear them again to see how they respond to a decent system or if it was all shout and absolutely no subtlety
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Post by macca on Sept 1, 2019 11:23:47 GMT
I had the 731LE and they were pretty good. And I'm not generally keen on Mission speakers, although I like the old white fronted 700 too.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 13:13:39 GMT
What ever you guys think. The '731 Pro would be a better, more enjoyable speaker to listen to at a fraction of the price. all IMHO tho.. About the same size.
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Post by macca on Sept 1, 2019 13:40:12 GMT
I agree. Look better too.
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Post by dsjr on Sept 1, 2019 15:05:01 GMT
Nah, JBL 305mk2's and save a Sh#t-load on amps and domestic audiophool cachet...
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Post by macca on Sept 1, 2019 15:18:09 GMT
Not heard them but I'd like to. At £100 new I'd have a punt but already spent way beyond the budget for this year.
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Post by dsjr on Sept 1, 2019 15:28:50 GMT
You need the active ones, don't bother with passive if an active version is available for not hugely more.
Apparently, the 305 actives are a bit rough round the edges, but better and what the BBC chucked out their 3/5A's for, the Dynaudio BM5A III at under a grand the pair WITH AMPS! is really what 3/5A bods should check out at least (I suspect Dynaudio and Adam love the domestic industry 'cos they can make so much more money out of inferior versions of their pro models...).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 15:39:04 GMT
Worst speaker I ever had the misfortune to own was the Mission 733 could not wait to get rid of them. Awful sounding things, muddy bass, no mid range, and they woofer pumped on all but one of my amps, and then only sounded a smidgen acceptable at a certain volume only. And yes the crossover and drivers were all fine. Bloke who relieved me of them loved them. Think I could have got more money for the junk, curses. So there you go different ears, different preferences.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2019 16:11:16 GMT
I used to see Mission 733 in all the Hi-Fi shops in the 90's growing up.
S.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 1, 2019 16:49:47 GMT
I used to see Mission 733 in all the Hi-Fi shops in the 90's growing up. S. I got out of hifi in 1994/5 and didn’t get back into it until 2002/3 so I missed them. I had to google them. |
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Post by dsjr on Sept 1, 2019 19:22:17 GMT
The 73 series were especially for young chaps (usually) with no money wanting their first cheap stereo. I think they were very efficient and got many enthusiasts on the ladder. All i can really remember is th enumber than came back after a party-
The crossovers were mounted into recesses moulded into the speaker terminal block. After a party, the coils would heat up and distort/melt the mouldings and the resistors (well enough rated) would melt said mouldings and burn out along with the tweeters and sometimes, the odd bass units. Always Missions of various models coming back after 'Parties.'
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Post by macca on Sept 1, 2019 21:11:39 GMT
You need the active ones, don't bother with passive if an active version is available for not hugely more. Apparently, the 305 actives are a bit rough round the edges, but better and what the BBC chucked out their 3/5A's for, the Dynaudio BM5A III at under a grand the pair WITH AMPS! is really what 3/5A bods should check out at least (I suspect Dynaudio and Adam love the domestic industry 'cos they can make so much more money out of inferior versions of their pro models...). It's the actives that are a hundred quid. I don't think they do a passive version. |
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Post by dsjr on Sept 2, 2019 8:33:10 GMT
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Post by macca on Sept 2, 2019 8:47:51 GMT
You're right it is just for one although that isn't mentioned until you 'add to basket'.
Still look good though even at £200 a pair.
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Post by dsjr on Sept 2, 2019 12:28:59 GMT
Yeah. Rough and ready they may be, but I bet they piss all over the cheap crap I used to sell thirty odd years ago, but as I miss demming and messing around, a built-in active solution (which I embraced when working in hifi dealers) is too final and boring for the gear part of my life obsession).
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Post by macca on Sept 2, 2019 12:36:57 GMT
We need to open a hi-fi shop, you and me |
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Post by dsjr on Sept 2, 2019 13:21:49 GMT
I could have been the east Suffolk Naim dealer back in 2004 had I started a business when we moved here. I was dissuaded so it went to Signals, who have made a spectacular success of it (lots of hard work, sweat and tears no doubt and the opening up of one of the partner's homes for many years) and the rest is history.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 15:29:23 GMT
The 73 series were especially for young chaps (usually) with no money wanting their first cheap stereo. I think they were very efficient and got many enthusiasts on the ladder. All i can really remember is th enumber than came back after a party- Something wrong then aint thur Dave. Cos i think they sound a whole lot better than those over priced boxes |
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Post by dsjr on Sept 2, 2019 15:37:56 GMT
It was the style, hype and price Andre. The floor standers had a little more bass weight, but somehow the owners, or probably teenage children, were attracted to them at parties like wasps to a jam pot. not sure cheaper KEFs attracted wuite the same kind of people (I liked the Coda 7, 8 and 9 but therse never came back blown up). We never saw the 75 series.
The 73 series I mean were mainly the larger poly coned big ported black models, not the more frail, delicate looking slimline models from the late 90's that I think you linked to. So bloody long ago I forget precise model numbers, sorry.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2019 15:42:27 GMT
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Dunno why the big deal with em tbh, they were not designed for full range Audio Speakerz anyway
