Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,152
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Post by Bigman80 on May 3, 2018 21:23:53 GMT
I've seen so many fashion trends in hifi, it's hard to make sense of it all. I recall working in a dealers that had to pay someone to take away a huge pair of Lowthers because they couldn't even clear them at £20. Same dealer having to bin Rega R200s because nobody wanted them used. Michell Hydraulic Refere bes selling for £50, Garrard decks and Pye Mozarts going from skip finds to 4 figure treasures, loads more too.
Those same fashion trends don't go away so I am sure there are unfashionable and forgotten gems out there that you can pick up for far less than their worth and get stunning results from.
Here's a few from me.
Mayware Formula IV. Still available for about £150 yet acn be utterly beguiling. A Linn LVX can go fit more and there is no comparison.
Revolver turntable. Great decks for peanuts, truly musical.
Creek 4040 and 4140. An amp that's close to Naim sound fir £50? I think so.
Monitor Audio R352. A lot of speaker for the money. A tweaker's dream too. Big, meaty sound that something like a pair of D2008 or 2010 would lift to another level.
Naim SBL. You can get these for £250 and they can be amazing. Clever design and a lot of material value. Plus you can even go active!
Adcom GFA555. Lovely power amp that is about as uncool as they come but very close to the boutique US muscle amps in many ways.
Rega Ela. An Ackroyd bass unit and a lovely Scanspeak tweeter in an elegant transmission line cabinet for £80? It sure is,
Michell Iso. £100 upward ps and it's ten same thing as a Tom Evans Microgroove. Seen off many a more expensive phono stage.
SD1 speakers. Massive high end madness fir £350 ish
Linn K20 speaker cable. Sometimes only £2 a metre used and yet it's a viable alternative to NAC A5 and many other more expensive cables,
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2018 22:02:23 GMT
Grado SR60/80. Crude yet very musical sound. Usual prices £40-£70. Occasionally you can sometimes pay as low around £30.
JPW Mini Monitor. Sadly these get rejected a lot because of their looks. Just like the Grado sound. £5-50.
Mordaunt Short MS10i. Plenty poke and fun. £10-40.
Arcam Alpha 7 CD Player. Nice warm sound. £30-90.
S.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2018 0:06:26 GMT
Heybrook HB3
Dean Alto
Logic Tempo
Crown amps
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2018 9:27:58 GMT
I'm a staunch supporter of the old and highly unfashionable Connoisseur BD1 turntable, always have been!
I had a Garrard 401 with an Ittok fitted that I was never 100% happy with, I sold it and built another BD1 which I used with a Mission 774 arm. It sounded great!
I still have a couple of Connoisseurs (and a mountain of spares) tucked away and will no doubt return to using one one day.
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,152
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 2, 2018 9:31:46 GMT
Well that’s a complete surprise. My knowledge of pre-80s gear isn’t all it should be. You never hear that deck discussed, so it’s piqued my interest. Hopefully I can find some google images to let me see how it’s put together.
I’ve bought unfashionable decks on a hunch (walkerdeck and little oak) but I haven’t found anything worthwhile as yet.
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Post by macca on Jul 3, 2018 11:26:31 GMT
Systemdek are long out of fashion but they're better than the equivalent Rega.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 12:26:21 GMT
A photo of my last Connoisseuer BD1. Yes that is suspended on rubber rings.  |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,152
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 3, 2018 12:46:27 GMT
Well that should have been a competition photo..l.guess the turntable. I’d never have gotten it. Did you make the plinth yourself?
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,152
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 3, 2018 12:50:41 GMT
Systemdek are long out of fashion but they're better than the equivalent Rega. I had one of those, actually I had three, but only one ever got put into action. It was a IIX900. It suffered from poor pitch which spoiled it. Maybe the electronic version would have fared better. I seem to struggle with suspended decks that are mains driven. I don’t know if there’s any connection but they all have had poor pitch. Systemdek,, Mantra, Alphason Solo, all sounded as though they were at sea, |
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Post by dsjr on Jul 3, 2018 12:55:39 GMT
Mayware Formula 4? Ok for high compliance cartridges but sounded shite with anything else i remember... I set up more of these than I care to remember. The (you've been H)'adcock was better, even if it was badly put together... The Mission 774 came along and these two were history i remember.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 12:56:31 GMT
Well that should have been a competition photo..l.guess the turntable. I’d never have gotten it. Did you make the plinth yourself? What competition? Yes, I made the plinth. |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,152
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 3, 2018 13:01:50 GMT
Well that should have been a competition photo..l.guess the turntable. I’d never have gotten it. Did you make the plinth yourself? What competition? Yes, I made the plinth. Sorry, just me being obscure. I was saying if they used the pic in a “guess the turntable comp”, not many would see its a Connoissuer. It looks modern the way you’ve built it |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,152
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 3, 2018 13:04:59 GMT
Mayware Formula 4? Ok for high compliance cartridges but sounded shite with anything else i remember... I set up more of these than I care to remember. The (you've been H)'adcock was better, even if it was badly put together... The Mission 774 came along and these two were history i remember. You will be shocked.......actually it’s me, so you won’t be  but I ran a DL103R in the Mayware and it worked well. I also ran an AT32e high was good too. P77 was a bit lacklustre and the high compliance one was just too cpbland for me, it was a Sinus Gold Blue or Blue Gold that I bought new. Everything I tried with the arm tracked very well and it had a lovely relaxed sound. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 13:06:54 GMT
Ah.
I should have found a better image actually. The lighting is poor in that one, the turntable is a bit dusty and the felt mat on the platter is too big!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 13:10:16 GMT
Mayware Formula 4? Ok for high compliance cartridges but sounded shite with anything else i remember... I set up more of these than I care to remember. The (you've been H)'adcock was better, even if it was badly put together... The Mission 774 came along and these two were history i remember. Mayware actually offered their low compliance MC2 moving coil cart to go with the Formula 4 (and a decent SUT). It was reputed to be a good combo. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 13:10:49 GMT
Mayware Formula 4? Ok for high compliance cartridges but sounded shite with anything else i remember... I set up more of these than I care to remember. The (you've been H)'adcock was better, even if it was badly put together... The Mission 774 came along and these two were history i remember. Mayware actually offered their low compliance MC2 moving coil cart to go with the Formula 4 (and a decent SUT was available too). It was reputed to be a good combo. |
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Post by dsjr on Jul 3, 2018 15:02:40 GMT
I know they did, but the arm-cartridge resonance comes up in frequency (maybe the damping takes the worst of it out, but won't remove it) and it's my take that bass 'breathed' better and appeared more 'musical' if this resonance was taken down in frequency (stably of course  ), rather than upwards. Best I ever heard a Formula 4 was with a Sonus Blue. This cartridge varied a bit sadly and they all suffered a humungous peak in the response at 28kHz which could upset some marginal phono stages. Get a good one going into a tolerant phono stage and the sound was excellent. I save my 'Blue' for high days and holidays as this one works with the Dual arm which is rather massier than the Mayware. Forgive me chaps - over-familiarity breeding indifference. i tried one on my mid 80's LP12 and it sounded awful - messy and lean (maybe I'd got used to the Ittok on this deck, too much bass bloat with the Ittok at the time).
Another case of stopping to think the rest of the system when praising or condemning something - HMMM! |
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Post by macca on Jul 3, 2018 17:32:45 GMT
Systemdek are long out of fashion but they're better than the equivalent Rega. I had one of those, actually I had three, but only one ever got put into action. It was a IIX900. It suffered from poor pitch which spoiled it. Maybe the electronic version would have fared better. I seem to struggle with suspended decks that are mains driven. I don’t know if there’s any connection but they all have had poor pitch. Systemdek,, Mantra, Alphason Solo, all sounded as though they were at sea, I have the IIX electronic, and it isn't pitch perfect although it isn't bad enough to be that apparent until you compare it to a good direct drive and realise what is possible. I still rate it over the Rega Planar 2 and 3 (the old ones), it isn't that far off an LP12, really. I did have it sounding very good at one time back in the dim and distant. |
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Post by dsjr on Jul 3, 2018 17:41:47 GMT
The IIX900 was a good little deck, rather in the vein of the Manticore Mantra. Maybe a bit coloured today? I think Audionote took the design, changed a couple of bits and took the price up a notch or two. Mind you, £350 then would be several hundred or more now, so maybe inflation? Not sure about the whole dual motor thing, but maybe it fixes any pitch issues?
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Post by dsjr on Jul 3, 2018 18:06:23 GMT
I've said it for years, but Notts Analogue turntables are superb to me, immune from siting to a huge degree and as well as their own excellent tonearms, the Rega RB models have never sung so sweetly - I put it down to the collet mounting which allows easy VTA adjustment. The graphite platter played host to a Decca like few others, but these decks lack 'bling' with adorns similar and possibly inferior oil-rig style models. hell, a dealer within spitting distance from me took on Linn and is able to sell these instead, despite the NAS models being clearly superior to those who don't listen with their eyes, or the need to belong to an outmoded 'club' going back well over forty years... Hey-Ho!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 18:08:33 GMT
Westie is on a collision course with a unipivot. May as well skip the upgrade path and get an Aro. You know you will end up there PS good to see new folk and even better to see we are back talking about hifi. |
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Post by dsjr on Jul 3, 2018 19:21:33 GMT
The ARO sounded a lot better on a late Cirkus LP12, but the bass all over the place on earlier fruitboxes and most other things I heard it on. It's so unstable and a wobbly pivot plays havoc with imaging, not that Naims ever really excelled in this aspect. the ARO lives on with a product called The Javelin, which is broadly similar and will sell for the thick end of a couple of grand.
I doubt I'll ever get to hear one, but I'd get more excited about the baby Funk arm from the Gett turntable.. Dead frail, but stable enough and it may just sound ok as well, despite the finish...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2018 19:29:06 GMT
It's a hard one for me to analyse because if you stick a troika in it, you just stop evaluating. It just feels like there's no need. Just enjoy. All very personal but that's how it has been for me. Talking of re-issues somebody should remake it for a lot less than the javelin. There's even an exploded diagram online.
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Post by dsjr on Jul 3, 2018 21:08:28 GMT
I suspect it's a case of Naim profit margins and the need for the makers to keep the superb finish and close tolerances the Aro had. Not sure if some of it - the tightly toleranced sleeved pillar - was really necessary but like the loose plug pins in recent items, it's *possibly* more something to talk about than anything to do with sonics perhaps?
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but I ran a DL103R in the Mayware and it worked well. I also ran an AT32e high was good too. P77 was a bit lacklustre and the high compliance one was just too cpbland for me, it was a Sinus Gold Blue or Blue Gold that I bought new. 
), rather than upwards.