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Post by nomad101 on Jun 9, 2024 9:56:39 GMT
Hi
After many years, I've now have the space to unpack and use my hifi gear: Unison Unico (original) amp (has phono connection) and Dynaudio Contour 1.3 MkII speakers. The speakers are bit unforgiving with poor recordings. I'm into a 'warm' sound.
I want to get back into vinyl, though have little knowledge about turnables, apart from hearing about names such as Rega, Technics, Audio-Technica, Pro-Ject. My budget is limited to around £400 - is that too low? I'm ok buying second hand, though concerned about whether turntables don't age well or ship well. I'd want to avoid turnables that require a lot of maintenance and fiddling about.
I'd appreciate any recommendations to start me off in the right direction.
Thanks
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optical
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Post by optical on Jun 9, 2024 10:32:04 GMT
Audio Technica LP-5 (or the "x" version) is about the best budget deck going (for me). Direct drive, maintenance free pretty much fit and forget, and the 95ex it comes with as standard is very good for the price. Although just looking, some come with 'just' a 95e, in my opinion the '95ex' is a fair amount better. So worth checking which it comes with. The older ones come with a built in linear power supply and I think the new ones have a 12v wall wart which can be upgraded too. Switchable mm phono level output or built in mm stage with USB output too I think (I know you said your amp has a built in stage but it's always nice to have options). On on eBay now, brand new for £280-ish. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/165926946571?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=znavxo9ltr6&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=_2_mrCCFSO2&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY |
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Post by macca on Jun 9, 2024 10:42:42 GMT
The answer to anything turntable is 'Technics'  At the budget I would avoid anything from Rega or Project. Actually I'd avoid them at any budget but...whatever. If you can go a bit extra a used Technics SL1500 will give superb and consistent results set up right with a decent cartridge (don't forget to allow some money for that) Pioneer's old Direct Drives are still under-valued, anything from the '5xxx' series is worth a look. Toshiba 'SR' series also worth considering as still partially under the radar. If you have to go new then the Audio Technica Optical recommends is okay (one of my brothers has one), but compared to the 1980s direct drives as listed above, corners are cut. However unless you already own a load of records you want to play I'd skip the whole vinyl thing altogether, there's other ways of getting a 'warm' sound which are better, cheaper and a lot less hassle. |
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Post by macca on Jun 9, 2024 10:56:36 GMT
Just an additional thought regarding your speakers - they are very good speakers. I would set them up so they are not toed in towards you -aim them straight ahead - and I'd make sure the room is fairly heavily furnished - carpet, rugs, furniture, plants in pots, shelves full of books, and so forth.
Very few recordings are truly poor but many listening rooms do have dreadful acoustics.
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optical
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Post by optical on Jun 9, 2024 11:13:17 GMT
The answer to anything turntable is 'Technics' At the budget I would avoid anything from Rega or Project. Actually I'd avoid them at any budget but...whatever. If you can go a bit extra a used Technics SL1500 will give superb and consistent results set up right with a decent cartridge (don't forget to allow some money for that) Pioneer's old Direct Drives are still under-valued, anything from the '5xxx' series is worth a look. Toshiba 'SR' series also worth considering as still partially under the radar. If you have to go new then the Audio Technica Optical recommends is okay (one of my brothers has one), but compared to the 1980s direct drives as listed above, corners are cut. However unless you already own a load of records you want to play I'd skip the whole vinyl thing altogether, there's other ways of getting a 'warm' sound which are better, cheaper and a lot less hassle. Yes the old DD's are great but most of the caps/electronics in the psu's and more crucially speed/pitch control circuits, will be 40-50 years old. The motors are bomb proof, the electronics, not so much. It sounds like the OP doesn't want the hassle of recapping or repairing anything in the near future, hence the new recommendation. True you could pick up a good one, but also highly likely it'll need immediate attention or will very soon. Having bought a fair few in the last few years this is just how it is. A few tweaks to the LP5 (cork mat on top of/in stead of the rubber one) and some isolation feet and it's not far off my SL1700. |
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Post by nomad101 on Jun 9, 2024 11:36:38 GMT
Thanks for all the recommendations. I'd like to go for an old Technics, but I think I need to keep things simple and the Audio Technica LP-5 looks viable.
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Post by nomad101 on Jun 9, 2024 11:52:22 GMT
... However unless you already own a load of records you want to play I'd skip the whole vinyl thing altogether, there's other ways of getting a 'warm' sound which are better, cheaper and a lot less hassle. I don't own a lot, but always enjoyed playing records, the whole ritual, looking at album covers...
Otherwise, I've recently put togeter a Rpi as streamer feeding a Denafrips DAC-8 PRO. And the Unico amp is hybrid (with a valve).
Would you have any other recommendations/formats for a warm sound.
Cheers
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Post by macca on Jun 9, 2024 11:57:10 GMT
The answer to anything turntable is 'Technics' At the budget I would avoid anything from Rega or Project. Actually I'd avoid them at any budget but...whatever. If you can go a bit extra a used Technics SL1500 will give superb and consistent results set up right with a decent cartridge (don't forget to allow some money for that) Pioneer's old Direct Drives are still under-valued, anything from the '5xxx' series is worth a look. Toshiba 'SR' series also worth considering as still partially under the radar. If you have to go new then the Audio Technica Optical recommends is okay (one of my brothers has one), but compared to the 1980s direct drives as listed above, corners are cut. However unless you already own a load of records you want to play I'd skip the whole vinyl thing altogether, there's other ways of getting a 'warm' sound which are better, cheaper and a lot less hassle. Yes the old DD's are great but most of the caps/electronics in the psu's and more crucially speed/pitch control circuits, will be 40-50 years old. The motors are bomb proof, the electronics, not so much. It sounds like the OP doesn't want the hassle of recapping or repairing anything in the near future, hence the new recommendation. True you could pick up a good one, but also highly likely it'll need immediate attention or will very soon. Having bought a fair few in the last few years this is just how it is. A few tweaks to the LP5 (cork mat on top of/in stead of the rubber one) and some isolation feet and it's not far off my SL1700. Well that's not been my experience - of the dozens of decks I've had over the years the only one that needed attention was British made. The 1980s made in Japan stuff just goes on forever. Modern AT will have the cheapest Chinese components inside, what will the longevity be on them? Alan had a 1990 Technics SL1200 off me, 34 years old now and I bet it's still in perfect working order. Yes, anything can go wrong, but buying cheap and new isn't necessarily a solution to that. But it's the O/P's money and his decision. |
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Post by macca on Jun 9, 2024 12:00:46 GMT
... However unless you already own a load of records you want to play I'd skip the whole vinyl thing altogether, there's other ways of getting a 'warm' sound which are better, cheaper and a lot less hassle. I don't own a lot, but always enjoyed playing records, the whole ritual, looking at album covers...
Otherwise, I've recently put togeter a Rpi as streamer feeding a Denafrips DAC-8 PRO. And the Unico amp is hybrid (with a valve).
Would you have any other recommendations/formats for a warm sound.
Cheers
All good stuff - If you didn't already then sort out your room acoustics. You can do that with normal furnishings, no need to be putting acoustic panels all over. If that's not enough look at an EQ solution. Just notching down the mids a little with EQ can turn bright and fatiguing into warm and pleasant. |
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Post by nomad101 on Jun 9, 2024 12:08:13 GMT
If that's not enough look at an EQ solution. Just notching down the mids a little with EQ can turn bright and fatiguing into warm and pleasant.
With the Rpi streamer, I'm using PiCorePlayer (LMS sever). Haven't properly checked out, there appear to be a couple of EQ plugins/options - I'll take a look. Thanks
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optical
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Post by optical on Jun 9, 2024 12:08:53 GMT
Yup, had an LP5 for 5 years problem free, three technics and a JVC/Victor DD deck over the same period all had issues. My SP10 has also developed an issue (the daddy!). Sounds like they've all gone wrong since macca packed it in 😂 |
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Post by macca on Jun 9, 2024 12:31:55 GMT
Yup, had an LP5 for 5 years problem free, three technics and a JVC/Victor DD deck over the same period all had issues. My SP10 has also developed an issue (the daddy!). Sounds like they've all gone wrong since macca packed it in 😂 That seems unlucky but I suppose all we are doing is swapping anecdotes, there's no real data for reliability of this stuff. You want to check out my graveyard of broken made in Japan CD players sometime... |
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Post by macca on Jun 9, 2024 12:33:47 GMT
If that's not enough look at an EQ solution. Just notching down the mids a little with EQ can turn bright and fatiguing into warm and pleasant.
With the Rpi streamer, I'm using PiCorePlayer (LMS sever). Haven't properly checked out, there appear to be a couple of EQ plugins/options - I'll take a look. Thanks
Have a good play around with it. Your speakers measure flat so should take well to a bit of EQing to taste. |
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Post by antonio on Jun 9, 2024 13:32:39 GMT
You could also consider changing your speakers that will give a slightly warmer sound, it's what I did due to tinnitus, which luckily seems to have improved over the last year or so.
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Post by lurch on Jun 9, 2024 13:41:25 GMT
nomad101Whereabouts in the country are you? If anywhere near the Southcoast I'd be happy to help you out with sorting a TT and showing you how to setup up a cart etc. I know my Tennant has a couple of AR Legend TTs and possibly others within your budget.
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Post by nomad101 on Jun 9, 2024 14:33:01 GMT
nomad101 Whereabouts in the country are you? If anywhere near the Southcoast I'd be happy to help you out with sorting a TT and showing you how to setup up a cart etc. I know my Tennant has a couple of AR Legend TTs and possibly others within your budget. Appreciate the offer, though I'm located in the Midlands |
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Post by nomad101 on Jun 9, 2024 14:44:14 GMT
You could also consider changing your speakers that will give a slightly warmer sound, it's what I did due to tinnitus, which luckily seems to have improved over the last year or so. I have thought about changing speakers. And do have tinnitus. I think I'm sensitive to 'harshness' (though more present when playing out louder levels), and the Dynaudios don't hold back on anything. I was lucky to get a great deal on the speakers (cabinets had some surface scratches).
I'll try playing with the EQ. More difficult to adjust the room, as it's shared with the rest of the family.
(I've been out of hifi for a long time, and wouldn't know where to start with alternative speakers...maybe will start another thread).
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Post by bencat on Jun 9, 2024 17:49:02 GMT
Given your situation I do not want to be suggesting more looking to change speakers . However as a fellow tinnitus sufferer I do know that using my Quads is kinder and more enjoyable to my ears now and this is a very strong reason why I will be keeping them for the future unless that famous lottery win just happens to fall in place .
So other options shame you are too far away from John as I am sure he would be able to help you on the TT side of things . Not sure what you have or even if you have any digital side but if you do then I have a MiniDSP D2222 D which is a fully digital unit that adds DIRAC Live to any digital input . This is a really powerful and easy system to dial your room out of the chain and make listening more enjoyable . It is also almost infinitely adjustable so can get things the way you want to hear them . As this is not being used yu would be more than welcome to borrow it and use it long term if needed . Sadly it is digital only so no use with any analogue signal .
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Post by nomad101 on Jun 9, 2024 20:26:44 GMT
Given your situation I do not want to be suggesting more looking to change speakers . However as a fellow tinnitus sufferer I do know that using my Quads is kinder and more enjoyable to my ears now and this is a very strong reason why I will be keeping them for the future unless that famous lottery win just happens to fall in place . So other options shame you are too far away from John as I am sure he would be able to help you on the TT side of things . Not sure what you have or even if you have any digital side but if you do then I have a MiniDSP D2222 D which is a fully digital unit that adds DIRAC Live to any digital input . This is a really powerful and easy system to dial your room out of the chain and make listening more enjoyable . It is also almost infinitely adjustable so can get things the way you want to hear them . As this is not being used yu would be more than welcome to borrow it and use it long term if needed . Sadly it is digital only so no use with any analogue signal . I have a Rpi streamer into a dac, so the MiniDSP is viable. Very kind of you to offer I'll certainly keep it mind.
Though I'll first see if the simple EQ solution - via LMS server squeezedsp plugin - works for me. |
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Post by mikeyb on Jun 10, 2024 4:14:42 GMT
I'm surprised no one has asked if you already own any records, if you don't then I hope you've plenty money unless you have access to second hand records and record shops.
Yeah I know you can buy off eBay and Discogs etc but buying new is ridiculously expensive.
My advice, buy a decent cd player instead or stick to streaming and that's coming from someone who owns a turntable and a 1000 LPs.
Of course there's nothing better than putting an LP on especially if you grew up with LPs, if you did then your doomed, like me 😂
As to what turntable to buy, good luck with that, there are loads to choose from, and be mindful you're now on the road to hell with frustration and upgradeitis, you'll be poor before you know it 😁
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Post by sq225917 on Jun 10, 2024 10:19:55 GMT
Get the best condition 1210 you can afford.
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Post by nomad101 on Jun 10, 2024 21:16:32 GMT
I'm surprised no one has asked if you already own any records, if you don't then I hope you've plenty money unless you have access to second hand records and record shops. Yeah I know you can buy off eBay and Discogs etc but buying new is ridiculously expensive. My advice, buy a decent cd player instead or stick to streaming and that's coming from someone who owns a turntable and a 1000 LPs. Of course there's nothing better than putting an LP on especially if you grew up with LPs, if you did then your doomed, like me 😂 As to what turntable to buy, good luck with that, there are loads to choose from, and be mindful you're now on the road to hell with frustration and upgradeitis, you'll be poor before you know it 😁
LOL - I don't have that much vinyl. It's more of a nostalgia trip, I always like playing records - slowing down the ritunal of listening to music. While streaming/cds are way more convenient, there's something about vinyl...
I'd only buy 2nd hand records, there are few places nearby. The cost of new vinyl is shocking.
I'm hoping I'm not going to descend into upgradeitis. I went through that phase when I first got into hifi. And then after a while realised I couldn't really tell the difference betweeen a cable, and it was more a psychological thing. Given I'm towards the frugual side it's always been difficult to blow a ton of money on gear. And for me, it's diminishing returns after a certain price point - luckily that's not too high.
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Post by bencat on Jun 10, 2024 21:46:34 GMT
Just a suggestion that there are a couple of voluntarily Lenco turntables on the Maverick site which could well be an ideal fit for you . First is they are both being sold by real enthusiasts who have fully rebuilt and tweaked by them . Secondly the sound quality that tt is really up there with the best and would give you something that you could be content with for quite a few years .
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Post by antonio on Jun 11, 2024 5:06:32 GMT
Great suggestion Andrew, having owned an LP12 and PTtoo, I enjoyed my Lenco more than both of these before finally moving away from vinyl to streaming. Don't forget nomad101 you really need a record cleaning machine to do vinyl justice, so add one of these into your budget, or you could forget about the whole thing and put the money to upgrading your present system. |
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Post by mikeyb on Jun 11, 2024 16:01:44 GMT
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Post by lurch on Jun 11, 2024 16:46:04 GMT
The above TT is located in Stoke on trent, at £475 collected with fitted 2M red, it's an absolut bargain, they're circa £1k new.
You would seriously struggle to get a better deck for the money, superb SQ and capable of supporting £1k+ carts.
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Post by macca on Jun 11, 2024 17:41:02 GMT
I know the seller, he's 100 percent.
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