Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,152
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 8, 2018 17:44:59 GMT
The question has been asked so I thought it worth hearing views and seeking votes. Might even clear the air.
My own view is that it’s sad that you can’t discuss the brand without the sort of paranoia, character assassination and witch hunts we’ve seen now for years. I have no doubt as to the source of these campaigns but it never ceases to amaze me when I see the kamikaze pilot mentality of some posters. I’m not getting at Antonio or DSJR here. I remember a guy named Darius who didn’t like Cubes and was pursued across forums by a cabal of sycophants. There have been others too.
That said, I’m for keeping on discussing it in normal context, just like any other brand. If people kick off and turn a simple review/get together thread into War and Peace (or should that be War andWar), then it only serves to highlight the subject matter and give it more oxygen. Given that’s the opposite of what the kamikaze pilots are seeking, I say “carry on”.
Counter arguments? I must say I think the outright ban has worked well for AoS because it has denied the trolls any material to rant about. AoS is big enough to be able to do that and they probably don’t need the hassle. We are a small forum though and I’m not convinced their experience would have much relevance here.
Over to you then. Should we carry on discussing NVA just like any other brand, or do we take the AoS approach and ban it altogether.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2018 17:56:48 GMT
I'd say not, if only to piss off the snakeoil mob.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2018 17:59:40 GMT
I've said no and am a proud member of the Snake.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2018 18:01:41 GMT
Oh....Forgot to mention I also own 13 (unlucky for some) NVA black plakie boxes.
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Post by karma67 on Sept 8, 2018 18:14:32 GMT
ive only just joined here but my opinion would be not to ban,the guy loves to play the victim.
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Post by nonuffin on Sept 8, 2018 18:40:47 GMT
To me, NVA is simply another component avaialable to choose from when making a purchasing choice, so I see no valid reason for curtailing any discussion about what is after all an inanimate object, unable to promote or defend itself against human bias. If some think it is wonderful because they own and enjoy what it does for them, then I am happy for those people that have found pleasure and contentment from the product's abilities. Must confess I have not listened to any NVA products and would love to review some of it, but the owner probably wouldn't trust me to carry out an honest appraisal, even though I am noted for being unbiased against any component sent to me to review. The contentious element is of course the designer and proprietor of NVA and if only he could forego some of his high minded principles and realised that his ongoing campaign against what he calls "slurp" has resulted in no changes whatsoever in the industry, he may become less vitriolic in his outlook. Having said that, he has an immense amount of techical knowledge, although while divesting it to others it is almost done in an abrasive or combative manner, which switches people off from taking heed. We can all be a touch crotechy and inflexible sometimes, but this man has almost turned it into an art form, sadly.
So no, don't ban all mention of NVA becuase the product itself is completely blameless and don't indirectly tar and feather the happy owners either just because they do own NVA products.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2018 18:54:02 GMT
up to you mate
i would ban everything to do with the pos of a man..you're running a proper hifi forum..everything to do with this bozo is toxic. just join snakeoil as we encourage ripping this muppet a new asshole
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Post by nonuffin on Sept 8, 2018 19:07:27 GMT
up to you mate i would ban everything to do with the pos of a man..you're running a proper hifi forum..everything to do with this bozo is toxic. just join snakeoil as we encourage ripping this muppet a new asshole If this is to be a 'proper' forum, I say we do need to seperate out the NVA product which we are able to discuss and ignore the owner who has no say at all over the product being discussed - good or bad. Gawd help us if every hi-fi manufacturer jumped in to forum discussions when their product is being talked about, but they at least have the good sense not to.
In all honesty Rudi, tearing this man a new asshole in digital ether land makes you no better than the man himself. Your most powerful weapon is to say or write nothing at all, then he will be doing all the tearing himself to himself. Think about it.
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,152
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 8, 2018 19:27:59 GMT
The problem is how to separate it without the furore we see every time an NVA product is discussed, You get this even with broadly favourable mentions and I often get the impression that people are nervous about being negative and end up being more complimentary than they really want to be. Then the pick, pick pick starts from the NVA crowd and the OP sometimes lets fly with their real views.
Nobody wants to be hounded or hassled. To me it’s an attempt to bully and censor remotely and I want to make sure it doesn’t happen here. If it keeps happening, I may choose to lock NVA review threads leaving only the OP. If there are still issues spilling over, or remote bullying, I will have no hesitation in applying a full ban. NVA already gets far more exposure than its place in the market would suggest it deserves. If the supporters cannot accept their favourable over representation and be thankful, then they will get zero exposure here.
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,152
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 8, 2018 19:45:00 GMT
I think I will start with this rule for starters. If you do a write up of a get together or a review involving NVA, you will have the right at any time to ask for the thread to be locked and and all posts after the OP be deleted.
This should hopefully give the naysayers pause for thought because any dissing will result in the initial review staying there and all your nonsense being deleted. Maybe I should start with today’s thread because none of the attacks had anything do with the day’s events.
I note the whining and complaining already from HFS so let me set the Grand Troll straight. DSJR yet again launched an attack then ran away claiming to be the victim when he got a response. Simple answer. Don’t attack people if you can’t take retaliation.
Given that RD and DQ have made the same criticisms it’s a bit rich to now be saying the opposite. Anyway, enough said. This rule will now be effective immediately.
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Post by nonuffin on Sept 8, 2018 19:56:48 GMT
Then the pick, pick pick starts from the NVA crowd and the OP sometimes lets fly with their real views. NVA already gets far more exposure than its place in the market would suggest it deserves. If the supporters cannot accept their favourable over representation and be thankful, then they will get zero exposure here. That is the truth of the matter is that NVA occupies a very tiny percentage of the market place and will grow or fade organically as a result. Who was it that said that publicity is great in whatever shape it comes in?
I can though understand that moderating a forum 24/7 isn't an easy task when you have people that cannot sensibly discuss a product without getting all heated up about it, or the pack dogs immediately move in to defend nothing to be defensive about if a genuine comment offends, then that's life and get over it.
I own a Lyngdorf power amp for example and if I see a comment that says "It's a bag of worthless shite" then I don't get emotional or affronted over that comment, so why can't others be grown up about things like that?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2018 20:17:58 GMT
I've votes no for the simple fact that i don't believe banning it is the answer. The NVA items or brand haven't done anything wrong, it's the fanatical responses from the owners of said brand.
I don't know how you stop that but I for one and sick to Sh#t of DJSR, ANTONIO and anyone else thinking because they own it, and like it that it's the best thing since sliced bread and anyone who disagrees is acting with bias against it.
I don't mind people saying "did you try this/that/other to get the best out of it" or in my system blah blah blah, That's part of the deal but all this Sh#t that's spouted and critising people for their opinion needs to F#ck off back to HFS with the rest of the disciples.
When the collective see that they do more harm than good with his approach, it will already be too late. Again, another forum discussing a ban on NVA. It's not the brands fault. Its those around it.
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,152
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 8, 2018 20:24:06 GMT
I've votes no for the simple fact that i don't believe banning it is the answer. The NVA items or brand haven't done anything wrong, it's the fanatical responses from the owners of said brand. I don't know how you stop that but I for one and sick to Sh#t of DJSR, ANTONIO and anyone else thinking because they own it, and like it that it's the best thing since sliced bread and anyone who disagrees is acting with bias against it. I don't mind people saying "did you try this/that/other to get the best out of it" or in my system blah blah blah, That's part of the deal but all this Sh#t that's spouted and critising people for their opinion needs to F#ck off back to HFS with the rest of the disciples. When the collective see that they do more harm than good with his approach, it will already be too late. Again, another forum discussing a ban on NVA. It's not the brands fault. Its those around it. In many ways, the behaviours displayed by them remind me of this: www.huffingtonpost.com/jayanti-tamm/the-c-word_2_b_848340.html |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2018 20:45:54 GMT
I've votes no for the simple fact that i don't believe banning it is the answer. The NVA items or brand haven't done anything wrong, it's the fanatical responses from the owners of said brand. I don't know how you stop that but I for one and sick to Sh#t of DJSR, ANTONIO and anyone else thinking because they own it, and like it that it's the best thing since sliced bread and anyone who disagrees is acting with bias against it. I don't mind people saying "did you try this/that/other to get the best out of it" or in my system blah blah blah, That's part of the deal but all this Sh#t that's spouted and critising people for their opinion needs to F#ck off back to HFS with the rest of the disciples. When the collective see that they do more harm than good with his approach, it will already be too late. Again, another forum discussing a ban on NVA. It's not the brands fault. Its those around it. In many ways, the behaviours displayed by them remind me of this: www.huffingtonpost.com/jayanti-tamm/the-c-word_2_b_848340.html😂😂 The 10 part tick list is outrageously accurate |
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Post by macca on Sept 8, 2018 22:10:38 GMT
Then the pick, pick pick starts from the NVA crowd and the OP sometimes lets fly with their real views. NVA already gets far more exposure than its place in the market would suggest it deserves. If the supporters cannot accept their favourable over representation and be thankful, then they will get zero exposure here.
I own a Lyngdorf power amp for example and if I see a comment that says "It's a bag of worthless shite" then I don't get emotional or affronted over that comment, so why can't others be grown up about things like that?
There is that, and you see it with other brands sometimes, Linn and Naim for example. It's tragic but what can you do? The internet is a broad church. But whilst they will massively over-react to any criticism of their chosen brand they don't tend to go down the conspiracy theory path about it, that's the bit I don't get. I voted 'last resort.' I like this forum, it's still small so it's still a bit 'wild west'. Or 'wild westie'. Ho Ho. And there's a good mix of views. So might be a shame to see it start getting buttoned down. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2018 22:18:37 GMT
I like this forum, it's still small so it's still a bit 'wild west'. Or 'wild westie'. Ho Ho. And there's a good mix of views. So might be a shame to see it start getting buttoned down. I agree with this. |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,152
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 8, 2018 23:50:48 GMT
I voted last resort too. I will definitely stick with locking down any future NVA related reviews/get togethers and removing the FUD they attract if things take a similar turn. The review/ account of events will then be left to stand unchallenged. Hopefully it will remove any incentive to crap all over it or start casting doubts.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2018 9:58:08 GMT
I voted last resort too. I will definitely stick with locking down any future NVA related reviews/get togethers and removing the FUD they attract if things take a similar turn. The review/ account of events will then be left to stand unchallenged. Hopefully it will remove any incentive to crap all over it or start casting doubts. I think that's a very rational approach. The only issue is that it prevents people with genuine interest discussing the day. I know there's no way to filter out "Dunn's disciples" usual rhetoric. As usual, they spoil it for everyone. I think what we have as an issue here is People "playing the man" rather than discussing the gear, which is why things get so tetchy. Cut that side out and things will improve. |
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Post by macca on Sept 9, 2018 10:30:09 GMT
I voted last resort too. I will definitely stick with locking down any future NVA related reviews/get togethers and removing the FUD they attract if things take a similar turn. The review/ account of events will then be left to stand unchallenged. Hopefully it will remove any incentive to crap all over it or start casting doubts. I think that's a very rational approach. The only issue is that it prevents people with genuine interest discussing the day. I know there's no way to filter out "Dunn's disciples" usual rhetoric. As usual, they spoil it for everyone. I think what we have as an issue here is People "playing the man" rather than discussing the gear, which is why things get so tetchy. Cut that side out and things will improve. They can't do that because they have to stick with the idea that there is a full-blown conspiracy against NVA, orchestrated by the forum owners, the manufacturers and the dealers. Quite simply if it wasn't for that all other makers would go out of business because everyone would be using NVA so we will stop at nothing, NOTHING! in order to prevent that. Yes, when you see it written it down like that it does look totally bat Sh#t crazy but that's the narrative. You can't adopt a rational approach with irrational people; just walking away is usually the only viable option and that's what we ended up having to do at AoS. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2018 10:35:12 GMT
I think the main problem is people taking themselves far too damn seriously.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2018 10:37:20 GMT
I think that's a very rational approach. The only issue is that it prevents people with genuine interest discussing the day. I know there's no way to filter out "Dunn's disciples" usual rhetoric. As usual, they spoil it for everyone. I think what we have as an issue here is People "playing the man" rather than discussing the gear, which is why things get so tetchy. Cut that side out and things will improve. They can't do that because they have to stick with the idea that there is a full-blown conspiracy against NVA, orchestrated by the forum owners, the manufacturers and the dealers. Quite simply if it wasn't for that all other makers would go out of business because everyone would be using NVA so we will stop at nothing, NOTHING! in order to prevent that. Yes, when you see it written it down like that it does look totally bat Sh#t crazy but that's the narrative. You can't adopt a rational approach with irrational people; just walking away is usually the only viable option and that's what we ended up having to do at AoS. Wasn't the total ban also because Marco 'couldn't help' mentioning NVA/Richard Dunn despite coming down like a ton of bricks on anyone else who did so? |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,152
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 9, 2018 10:42:26 GMT
I think that's a very rational approach. The only issue is that it prevents people with genuine interest discussing the day. I know there's no way to filter out "Dunn's disciples" usual rhetoric. As usual, they spoil it for everyone. I think what we have as an issue here is People "playing the man" rather than discussing the gear, which is why things get so tetchy. Cut that side out and things will improve. They can't do that because they have to stick with the idea that there is a full-blown conspiracy against NVA, orchestrated by the forum owners, the manufacturers and the dealers. Quite simply if it wasn't for that all other makers would go out of business because everyone would be using NVA so we will stop at nothing, NOTHING! in order to prevent that. Yes, when you see it written it down like that it does look totally bat Sh#t crazy but that's the narrative. You can't adopt a rational approach with irrational people; just walking away is usually the only viable option and that's what we ended up having to do at AoS. Even more bat Sh#t crazy when you consider it’s a back bedroom outfit that doesn’t even break the VAT threshold. It’s like a Blyth Spartans defender accusing FIFA, the FA Gareth Southgate, Sepp Bllatter and Les Dennis of conspiring to keep him out of the World Cup squad: All because they all feared his talent would expose all the other players as overpaid clunkers, wreck the entire transfer market and bankrupt the whole game. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2018 11:12:06 GMT
I think the main problem is people taking themselves far too damn seriously. +1 One man's meat is another man's pudding. We're all different. There's more than one way to skin a cat. Etc etc .... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2018 11:15:21 GMT
I think the main problem is people taking themselves far too damn seriously. That's always a problem in every walk of life. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2018 11:21:44 GMT
do as we do on snakeoil
point and laugh at this pos of a man..he's been dishing out insults 20 hours a day for years..let him have it i say
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2018 17:04:22 GMT
They can't do that because they have to stick with the idea that there is a full-blown conspiracy against NVA, orchestrated by the forum owners, the manufacturers and the dealers. Quite simply if it wasn't for that all other makers would go out of business because everyone would be using NVA so we will stop at nothing, NOTHING! in order to prevent that. Yes, when you see it written it down like that it does look totally bat Sh#t crazy but that's the narrative. You can't adopt a rational approach with irrational people; just walking away is usually the only viable option and that's what we ended up having to do at AoS. Wasn't the total ban also because Marco 'couldn't help' mentioning NVA/Richard Dunn despite coming down like a ton of bricks on anyone else who did so? Well one may look no further than the AOS section of www.hifisubjectivist.org/viewforum.php?f=6 Egged on by his cabal of familiars for your answer, DunN Reaps what he sowes as far as I am concerned egged on by a cabal of equilly damaged individuals. This has been pointed out to him but the malignancy is too far gone and it is akin to throwing a Petis Poi at that Neanderthal Cranium. |
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Post by pauld on Sept 10, 2018 11:42:48 GMT
I voted no, I wouldn't like to think there was a need to ban talk about any brand.
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