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Post by robbiegong on Apr 25, 2024 20:27:12 GMT
I was thinking the other day, that some of us audio folk have an idea where they're hoping to take it, definite plans for the future, towards eventually pretty much drawing a line under it at some point, settled, stop, job done, music! On the other hand, are you one of those that just enjoys trying what you can / fancy, it's more than half the fun for you ? Are you a die hard, will keep, fiddling, trying, fettling 'til you drop ? I'm curious  |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,117
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 25, 2024 21:37:55 GMT
I think I have come to the conclusion that the more I learn about HiFi, the less interested I am in it. It just seems to be full of Charlatans whose sole concern is to rinse you for all you're worth.
I went to a dealers the other day as I was passing. They had the Rose streamer, which I thought looked quite interesting. They tried to convince me that I should buy a Rose because Eversolos are now failing all over the world. I asked for evidence, they said "Google it"
I did.... not thing to be found, and their system was mediocre at best...but apparently my "DIY speakers" wouldn't be up to the performance of his 40th anniversary Triangle speakers.
Utter bollocks. They were shite.
Back when all the hifi goodies in the classifieds had the potential to blow my mind, the hobby was great! I was addicted. Now, I find myself being continually unimpressed by almost everything I see or hear in the commercial sector, which has taken all of that aspect away.
Some stuff makes me have a read up, like those new speakers of Tony's. But, the price turns me right off. Not because I can't afford it, but because I just no longer believe that you need to spend those sorts of figures to get top quality sound.
The path I have taken is not for the feint of heart, but it's provided me with the information required to understand that I am at a point of being unable to get any further mileage out of just randomly buying and swapping kit around. For now, this room and system coexist in almost perfect harmony. So for that reason I am unlikely to make any changes to anything I already own.
That said, I do want a CD transport, specifically a TEAC 701, and I am trying out a few cables, but it's literally fine tuning. Once that's done..I'm done.
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Post by lurch on Apr 25, 2024 21:59:57 GMT
When I got my 1st proper system in 87 I never thought about upgrading though did swap my Rotel 840BX for the Cambridge pre/pwr (now in system 2) in 88. Everything the stayed as is until 2001 (apart from addition of a CDP in 94, which I still have) when I PXd the Arcam Two Plus for kef Cresta 3. Everything then stayed inplace until late 2016 when I decided I deserved an upgrade after 29 years.
Since 2016 I've been through quite a lot of kit searching for the sound. I've also with these changes got the top flight TT, CDP and Koetsu ownership out of my system, and with the recent documented changes feel I am pretty much there and don't feel my system is lacking anywhere. Infact if I put my sensible head on then there's no valid reason to change anything.
I have always taken my hobbies to the max my pocket can stand, and with that in mind I plan to stick for the time being.
However, once I'm in a position to sell where I live (Mum owns 50%) and buy a bungalow which would leave me a good chunk of change i will reassess things. At that point I will look at upgrading my streamer & DAC along the lines of an Innuos Statement Next Gen and Aqua La Scala. Even though I'll have plenty of Wedge to play with I won't just buy because I can, the items will need to perform at a level above what I have that makes me comfortable with the purchase.
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Post by robbiegong on Apr 25, 2024 22:06:23 GMT
I think I have come to the conclusion that the more I learn about HiFi, the less interested I am in it. It just seems to be full of Charlatans whose sole concern is to rinse you for all you're worth. I went to a dealers the other day as I was passing. They had the Rose streamer, which I thought looked quite interesting. They tried to convince me that I should buy a Rose because Eversolos are now failing all over the world. I asked for evidence, they said "Google it" I did.... not thing to be found, and their system was mediocre at best...but apparently my "DIY speakers" wouldn't be up to the performance of his 40th anniversary Triangle speakers. Utter bollocks. They were shite. Back when all the hifi goodies in the classifieds had the potential to blow my mind, the hobby was great! I was addicted. Now, I find myself being continually unimpressed by almost everything I see or hear in the commercial sector, which has taken all of that aspect away. Some stuff makes me have a read up, like those new speakers of Tony's. But, the price turns me right off. Not because I can't afford it, but because I just no longer believe that you need to spend those sorts of figures to get top quality sound.The path I have taken is not for the feint of heart, but it's provided me with the information required to understand that I am at a point of being unable to get any further mileage out of just randomly buying and swapping kit around. For now, this room and system coexist in almost perfect harmony. So for that reason I am unlikely to make any changes to anything I already own. That said, I do want a CD transport, specifically a TEAC 701, and I am trying out a few cables, but it's literally fine tuning. Once that's done..I'm done. Excellent, thanks for the share. Have to absolutely agree re: your spend comment, exactly where I'm at. I'm now in no doubt, that the final changes I make, will be it for me, all things considered in this game. End result - a fairly modest overall spend, on a system that will do music properly, for a fraction of that, some dont do, at three, four times+ the cost. |
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Post by misterc on Apr 25, 2024 22:20:57 GMT
I must admit the actual cost of quality audio has gone steeply uphill in recent years far more than it should in my book.
Oli observations aren't to far away from the actual real world. Personally for myself if I built all of my system from scratch on a 10k buget it would take me about a year in real time to do this if I was semi retired.
Recenty we purchased some cnc routers & planers for another project we are about to start work on so we'll see I can handle speaker building as well lol
As with all items are desirable at whatever cost point it's all relative to whatever that individual feels they are worth to them whether it's a £75 transformer, a £25k ppm vehicle or a rare painting its all relative to that person imho
Recently I went overseas to listen to a couple of pairs of virtually seven figure sum speakers on behalf of a client both had amazing reproductive properties, both with top notch build etc and being honest it was enough to give audiophiles multiple wet dream cascading orgasam syndrome times ten.
Yet for me personally neither made me feel I will hawk the family silver,sell another kidney or take-up being a YT influencer.
No, I just am fortunate enough to know what I like in my music playback, and as Oli has suggested it's really about what you want for yourself
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Post by jandl100 on Apr 26, 2024 5:17:24 GMT
There's no doubt at all that I enjoy box swapping, just investigating what different components sound like.
So for me there is not an aspirational end point.
I can foresee me happily carrying on with boxswapping indefinitely. It's what I want to do.
I'm a solid supporter of Oli's observation...
"I just no longer believe that you need to spend those sorts of figures to get top quality sound."
At least as far as electronics are concerned.
I've been a 'speaker first' kind of audio guy all my life. I put my money where my mouth is with a 5 £figure speaker purchase back in 2010 and I've never regretted it.
I've dropped £ks on amps and DACs in the past, and while that was fun I don't consider it necessary. Fooling around in the shallow end of the electronics pool is providing what I want atm.
So for me it's the audio journey that's the fun thing, I don't expect to arrive at any destination other than the grave!
.... And it's the same with music. I like to explore there as well, not settling down with my favourite few hundred pieces or albums or musicians.
As with audio, I've settled on the overall area of interest and general presentation (MBL speakers in audio and classical in music). But that still leaves effectively limitless scope for future explorations.
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Post by antonio on Apr 26, 2024 5:21:04 GMT
As I've got older I'm less interested in hifi, I still look on forum classifieds, ebay, ect and yes if I had more money I'd be tempted (why the hell do I look  ) . I've enjoyed trying a few different items over the past couple of years but am now very happy with the most simple system I've ever owned. We've noticed the price of the speakers my brother was interested in have gone up enormously, it seems every time you look at the RRP it's gone up another £10k !!! Bargains seem in short supply unless you can find something on the 2nd hand market, I've got to give a mention to Eversolo, both the A6 and A8 are as near a bargain as I've ever owned, along with my previously owned BTE Lenco tt. Oli, I've not read of mass problems with Eversolo, it would be nice to know how many units they have sold world wide and of course a percentage will have had a fault, can often be user caused and since you may be looking for your end game cd transport,  I know which one I'd choose. pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/jays-audio-cdt3-mk3-rarely-seen-on-the-s-h-market.291523/ |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,117
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 26, 2024 5:57:06 GMT
As I've got older I'm less interested in hifi, I still look on forum classifieds, ebay, ect and yes if I had more money I'd be tempted (why the hell do I look ) . I've enjoyed trying a few different items over the past couple of years but am now very happy with the most simple system I've ever owned. We've noticed the price of the speakers my brother was interested in have gone up enormously, it seems every time you look at the RRP it's gone up another £10k !!! Bargains seem in short supply unless you can find something on the 2nd hand market, I've got to give a mention to Eversolo, both the A6 and A8 are as near a bargain as I've ever owned, along with my previously owned BTE Lenco tt. Oli, I've not read of mass problems with Eversolo, it would be nice to know how many units they have sold world wide and of course a percentage will have had a fault, can often be user caused and since you may be looking for your end game cd transport, I know which one I'd choose. pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/jays-audio-cdt3-mk3-rarely-seen-on-the-s-h-market.291523/I don't believe there is any issue with the Eversolo kit. It was sales nonsense, and going to that dealers only served to reinforce my opinion that actually, I'm just not interested in what they are happy to peddle. The Jays was on my radar but I think it's a bit expensive for a two year old used unit. Its also irrelevant at the minute as I can't spend any money as we're saving up for either a new bathroom or a new kitchen. Both need doing, so a CDT will only happen if I sell a few Bigbottle/Avalon items. I'd buy it though...no doubt. |
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Post by macca on Apr 26, 2024 6:13:51 GMT
Good question!
I would like a room twice the size of what i have, that's not going to happen so there it is.
I do think about getting 'better' loudspeakers but every time I switch on and listen I think 'I don't need better speakers.' But once I have the house renovation done I might reconsider that. If there's any money left!
The challenge for me is to get top quality sound without spending loads of money. But since I take an evidence-based approach there's no point - in my view - to spend a fortune on magical boxes and accessories.
Jerry is absolutely right about the electronics. As long as the amp can drive the speakers and you didn't buy anything 'weird' you only need to spend hundreds not thousands there. Especially second hand.
I still like the components to look the part though and happy to spend extra for that. I am an equipment junkie, always have been. I will buy kit because I like the looks, or it just intrigues me. If it ends up not being used and just sat in a pile, well I don't care.
Except for the CD transport everything in my system is more than 20 years old and bought used.
Market now seems split between far east budget stuff and the crazy money stuff, I think that's a natural evolution. Even if I had millions I'd still be looking to get best value for my money because that's the challenge.
Ollie - I am surprised you did not like the Triangle speakers, I have always been impressed by their speakers most recently at NEBO back in February. At least once we got them on the end of Ali's Neurochrome monoblocks. I wonder if the dealer was using some boutique tat amplifier? The 40th Anniversary, like a lot of Triangle and Focal loudspeakers, are a bitch of a load in the bass.
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,117
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 26, 2024 7:25:54 GMT
Ollie - I am surprised you did not like the Triangle speakers, I have always been impressed by their speakers most recently at NEBO back in February. At least once we got them on the end of Ali's Neurochrome monoblocks. I wonder if the dealer was using some boutique tat amplifier? The 40th Anniversary, like a lot of Triangle and Focal loudspeakers, are a bitch of a load in the bass. He was using a Lyngdorf, the new big one. I don't know how it performs as i haven't looked. I suppose i may have been a bit harsh as i am a bit tired, but he told me they were £6k and i have similarly priced speakers here and they just didn't compare. They were certainly listenable, but not in the same league. Now, it could have been the surrounding kit...but i'll never know as i don't intend to ask for a home demo, which would be useless anyway as they'd just excite the room and sound worse for it. It's just very hard to get excited for commercial kit when we're over here playing a different game in the DIY/Artisan realm. These were them: the-ear.net/review-hardware/triangle-magellan-duetto-40th/ |
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Post by antonio on Apr 26, 2024 7:42:45 GMT
@bigman80 I would agree it is a little expensive, he's paid approx £3380 at todays exchange rate, £2k would seem more than fair. Good luck with your sales.
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Post by sq225917 on Apr 26, 2024 15:32:57 GMT
I could bin it all in get something different, but better is only going to come about with room upheaval, physical and digital treatment. Or a much bigger room.
And I just CBA with any of that.
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Post by electronumpty on Apr 26, 2024 15:54:04 GMT
Have to say I'm pretty happy with my set up ATM. Trying to find time to build some power amps (and failing as life gets in the way). But I could quite happily live with my Firebottle monos for a long time. Wanted to build the amps for the DIY challenge and interest, more than the upgrade itch. Yhey will happen at some stage!
Hopefully, I will at least partially retire in 4 years, so I might treat myself to a new TT as I have had the current one for 15 years, so a new one after 20 years seems about right.
Or I just might spend on some exotic cartridge 😂
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Post by stevew on Apr 26, 2024 16:43:07 GMT
It’s an interesting question isn’t it?
Of late I’ve done a whole load of experimenting with isolation support and cables. It’s put right a lot of stuff that was wrong with my system in battling a ‘difficult’ room.
So.. two things.
Firstly I have to retrain my brain to relax and actually listen to music again. Not just tracks I know terribly well but want to detect how different they now sound. Mind you, it’s much easier now I’m enjoying the way the music is now being presented.
Won’t stop me fiddling… but perhaps with a bit more perspective.
Secondly I really need to just be happy with what I’ve got. It’s great.
However then I go and do something stupid like go to Jason’s and hear the mini Vaders or the Vaders.
I could go for them and they would sound better I have no doubt, but I’d have to look for a mk2 wife.
I know…
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Post by markn on Apr 26, 2024 17:02:08 GMT
I have always fairly frequently "upgraded" my system ever since I bought my first entry-level Linn system with Arcam Alpha CD player. I upgraded through the Linn product range, ending up with active Kaber speakers driven by three Linn Klout power amplifiers. The big change came when I bought Focal (JM Labs, as they were) Mezzo Utopias. This brought about the move away from Linn and on to valve amplification. I eventually had a bad experience with valves, so I moved back to solid state with the Audionet Amp 1 V2 power amplifier, fed directly from the dCS Rossini.
I had the Focals for 11 years, before moving to the Estelon xb, which I had for a further 9 years. I then moved from the Audionet amplifier to Accustic Arts monoblocks for about one year, when I bought the Audionet Humboldt. Then, in February of this year, Jason brought round the eagerly-awaited Arke Vaders, and the system has never sounded so good. I still have the Rossini (now Apex) and the streamer is an Antipodes Audio K50 Mk1.
Can the system be improved? Of course it can. Antipodes make a better streamer (the Oladra), there are numerous DACs available (including the dCS Vivaldi Apex), and Audionet make the Heisenberg monoblocks. However, the cost of "upgrading" now is really prohibitive, especially since I have retired. So, it looks like I have reached the end of the journey, unless any of the components break down and cannot be repaired. Now we just enjoy the music, and I still manage to find things that are new to me.
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Post by macca on Apr 26, 2024 17:12:26 GMT
Ollie - I am surprised you did not like the Triangle speakers, I have always been impressed by their speakers most recently at NEBO back in February. At least once we got them on the end of Ali's Neurochrome monoblocks. I wonder if the dealer was using some boutique tat amplifier? The 40th Anniversary, like a lot of Triangle and Focal loudspeakers, are a bitch of a load in the bass. He was using a Lyngdorf, the new big one. I don't know how it performs as i haven't looked. I suppose i may have been a bit harsh as i am a bit tired, but he told me they were £6k and i have similarly priced speakers here and they just didn't compare. They were certainly listenable, but not in the same league. Now, it could have been the surrounding kit...but i'll never know as i don't intend to ask for a home demo, which would be useless anyway as they'd just excite the room and sound worse for it. It's just very hard to get excited for commercial kit when we're over here playing a different game in the DIY/Artisan realm. These were them: the-ear.net/review-hardware/triangle-magellan-duetto-40th/Oh right I thought you meant some of the big three-way towers. Yeah I rarely hear any conventional two-way that really impresses me. At any price. And by rarely I mean never. There's speakers like the JPW P3/AP3 you can pick up for next to nothing s/h and are great value for the highly restricted in budget. But the big money ones are for the birds. |
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Post by jandl100 on Apr 26, 2024 17:38:36 GMT
markn".... and Audionet make the Heisenberg monoblocks" Are you certain about that? 😂
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Post by macca on Apr 26, 2024 18:44:50 GMT
Took me a while to get that. Very good. |
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Post by brucew268 on Apr 26, 2024 19:58:14 GMT
I tell myself I’m trying to get back to the same quality of music reproduction that I had 30 years ago, limited now by smaller rooms, lower budget, and equipment that did not last.
But I have to admit that in mountain biking and photography too I was always looking for items that would give performance upgrades, which makes me an inveterate tinkerer.
If I could achieve sound at least as good as back then, I could probably give up on substantial changes. But I have seen enough interesting items in the last month that if I had £12k free and clear, I could happily spend it next month. I am also starting to think I won’t be able to jump up to the speakers I’d like until an inheritance comes in… which for understandable reasons I’m not in any hurry to see.
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Post by robbiegong on Apr 26, 2024 20:17:21 GMT
I tell myself I’m trying to get back to the same quality of music reproduction that I had 30 years ago, limited now by smaller rooms, lower budget, and equipment that did not last. But I have to admit that in mountain biking and photography too I was always looking for items that would give performance upgrades, which makes me an inveterate tinkerer. If I could achieve sound at least as good as back then, I could probably give up on substantial changes. But I have seen enough interesting items in the last month that if I had £12k free and clear, I could happily spend it next month. I am also starting to think I won’t be able to jump up to the speakers I’d like until an inheritance comes in… which for understandable reasons I’m not in any hurry to see. Go on, which speakers ?? |
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Post by brucew268 on Apr 26, 2024 21:43:44 GMT
I tell myself I’m trying to get back to the same quality of music reproduction that I had 30 years ago, limited now by smaller rooms, lower budget, and equipment that did not last. But I have to admit that in mountain biking and photography too I was always looking for items that would give performance upgrades, which makes me an inveterate tinkerer. If I could achieve sound at least as good as back then, I could probably give up on substantial changes. But I have seen enough interesting items in the last month that if I had £12k free and clear, I could happily spend it next month. I am also starting to think I won’t be able to jump up to the speakers I’d like until an inheritance comes in… which for understandable reasons I’m not in any hurry to see. Go on, which speakers ?? I'd probably go for the Arke Mini Vaders, in part due to Jason's tuning expertise, my current smallish room, etc. If the budget wouldn't stretch to that I might try to build Ekta MkII's. |
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Post by antonio on Apr 27, 2024 9:01:56 GMT
Took me a while to get that. Very good. If he's any sharper he'll cut himself. |
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Post by hifinutt on Apr 27, 2024 12:35:01 GMT
Calmed down a bit recently due to tight budgets and boring things like mortgages to pay .
However would like a transport and the 701 looks good and so does 260d however got quite a few projects on the go one being building a road and ripping out a garden for a drive and its pretty expensive involving topographical surveys and architects
Fortunately both the verity and the tannoys continue to sound brilliant .the verity are very detailed and textured .the tannoys are just big soundstage and non fatiguing
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Arke
Moderator
Posts: 1,018
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Post by Arke on Apr 27, 2024 15:33:29 GMT
I think it's safe to say that most hifi 'fanatics/addicts' have probably been through a fairly large number of components on their journey... Some of my components have stuck around for 10-15years. However, this is usually because my interests wander (climbing, travelling, photography, running, cycling) and I move in non-hifi circles for a few years. Being out of the game and away from temptation (hearing something better) I am less tempted to change anything.
I am currently (due to making speakers) very much immersed in the hifi world, so there is often temptation not far away... Having said that, I rarely hear anything that tempting, BUT, that doesn't mean I haven't got upgrades in mind!
A few smaller tweaks await:
- better tonearm cable,
- some 'acoustic' canvases (still slightly too much echo in my room)
- a few more plants
- some speaker isolation (need to try some Townshends)
Bigger tweaks *may* be:
- I have a fully ARKE speaker in the pipeline. This is some time off yet and may better Vaders... Or am I being overly ambitious! 😂
- I am always curious about another power amp. The current Purifi is certainly a very capable amp (in my room/system) but surely there are preferable options... I'm always willing to try other options and would change if something is better and affordable.
I think, for me, the 'journey' and making changes, comparisons and discoveries is all part of the fun. Where am I looking to take it? That is a tough one to answer... If I am honest, I have spent 30 years being reasonably happy, but always aware of issues and often picking up issues whilst listening - this can be distracting. These distractions can spoil the enjoyment a little, for me at least. Having said that, I am currently happy with where I am and have been for 6+ months. I certainly won't be taking any backwards steps, so any changes/improvements will ALWAYS have to be tried in my system. I've made too many 'blind' (deaf) purchases and shan't be making those mistakes again.
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) . I've enjoyed trying a few different items over the past couple of years but am now very happy with the most simple system I've ever owned.
I know which one I'd choose.
