Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 3, 2018 10:59:20 GMT
These created a real stir in the 80s and they have endured to today. Fabulously built with an expensive bass unit, they just communicate in a way so many other speakers can only dream of. The soundstage extends laterally beyond the speakers and the impact and drive they give is breathtaking with the right source and amp Developed by Robin Marshall, they have come to be regarded as a true classic and are still making great music for many enthusiasts today. I bought my first pair new from The Sound Org in York and they provided me with so many peak experiences. Letting them go was a wrong turn that took me years to undo. If I’d kept them, they may still have been with me today.  Judson Jerome |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 11:28:42 GMT
Sound org in York is my nearest dealer although I have not been for many years. Parking is non existent - not good if you lots of heavy boxes.
I heard the ES14 (and ES11) way back and liked them. But I had a pair of speakers at the time that I had saved up a long time for and was not going to change. They ended up staying in my system for 20 years (still have them). If it wasn't for that I would probably have bought some ES14.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 11:45:19 GMT
Amongst the finest speakers ive ever heard...........(Yup bar none)
Stick your NS1000 / Isobarics / OB'S / Harbeth / CUBIX / etc etc etc......up yer arse.
Superb....They are so right they're wrong. 😝
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 11:47:18 GMT
Now it aint a difficult design.........So why the fuk cant today's manufacturers emulate them.  ?? |
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Post by antonio on Sept 3, 2018 12:55:27 GMT
I bought my ES14's from Sound Org York at the same time as the LP12. Wish I'd never part ex'ed them in for the Shahinians that replaced them. They saw me through many an upgrade and always showed the improvements made with the LP12 and Naim amps I had at the time. Really came to life with the 135's I remember. One more thing was the dedicated stands made a significant improvement over the Heybrooks I originally purchased, the dedicated stands had not been released at the time.
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Post by dsjr on Sept 3, 2018 13:12:17 GMT
I wish Robin had taken the brand back when he left M-S but he was unable to sadly. He'd have sorted out the tin can tweeter then and I have this first hand from the man himself. As it ended up, it was fine for LP12 vinyl retailers, spiced up grainy Naim amps yet opened out with better digital sources and more proper amps, even valve..
Should you have a driver failure, not sure if Lockwood's carry any spares as I think Creek bought only the name - can't be sure though.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 13:38:38 GMT
But......😾.......You answer fuk all Dave.
Quit your fukin bullshit........I asked why cant today's manufacturers emulate the sound of ES14 ?
How hard can it fukin be to not only copy but improve upon a 70s design ?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 13:42:19 GMT
when speakers were properly made .
i never owned a set but came close a few times
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 3, 2018 14:20:00 GMT
I’ll try and answer Jammys question in part. The bass unit was way more expensive than any businessman would factor into a speaker of that price or anything in the next peprice bracket. It was designed for the cabinet and it was also designed to cross over naturally with the chosen tweeter, which also wasn’t cheap.
These days they just pick a couple of drivers and tweeters at a profitable price point and then build a crossover to knit them together. They aren’t as good quakity and they were never made to knit together. I’m sure the speaker could’ve been even better with more bracing but I’m being really, really greedy. They really should’ve been double the price they were. And they would still have pissed on the competition.
I guess the other factor that stops them being emulated by others is that Robin Marshall seemed to learn from his previous designs and make the next one better. Lots of his M.A. designs appear to sow the seeds for the ES14. The MA852 for instance.He started out better than most and improved. Not many can touch him IMO.,
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 14:29:53 GMT
I know where yer coming from Andrew.......
But its fukin sad....cop out....looks above sound quality now.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 14:34:11 GMT
VW or SKODA.
❓
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 3, 2018 14:47:14 GMT
Worse than cop out. It’s a con. But then anyone stupid enough to buy skinny WAF boxes with cheapo Chi Fi drivers deserves all they get.
ES14s are beautiful to look at, properly engineered and sound special. Why buy today’s junk when you can pick up a used pair with stands for under £200? They have to be one of today’s bargains, for lots of people, they have been an end-game purchase.....for just £299 or £350 if bought early enough.
Frankly, if I’d walked out of The Sound Org in 1987 with a Xerxes/Rb300, an Exposure Vii/Viii and a pair of Epos, that system would’ve been good enough to last me for life and no need to ever change. I can’t deny the fun I’ve had in trying other stuff, but I was pretty much “there” 31 years ago.
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Epos ES14
Sept 3, 2018 15:13:11 GMT
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Post by alit on Sept 3, 2018 15:13:11 GMT
I’ll try and answer Jammys question in part. The bass unit was way more expensive than any businessman would factor into a speaker of that price or anything in the next peprice bracket. It was designed for the cabinet and it was also designed to cross over naturally with the chosen tweeter, which also wasn’t cheap. These days they just pick a couple of drivers and tweeters at a profitable price point and then build a crossover to knit them together. They aren’t as good quakity and they were never made to knit together. I’m sure the speaker could’ve been even better with more bracing but I’m being really, really greedy. They really should’ve been double the price they were. And they would still have pissed on the competition. I guess the other factor that stops them being emulated by others is that Robin Marshall seemed to learn from his previous designs and make the next one better. Lots of his M.A. designs appear to sow the seeds for the ES14. The MA852 for instance.He started out better than most and improved. Not many can touch him IMO., Hence why it makes sense to build your own. Really good drivers can be had for a couple of hundred quid or so, how much would you have to spend on a commercial design to have drivers of that quality included? |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 3, 2018 15:32:43 GMT
I’ll try and answer Jammys question in part. The bass unit was way more expensive than any businessman would factor into a speaker of that price or anything in the next peprice bracket. It was designed for the cabinet and it was also designed to cross over naturally with the chosen tweeter, which also wasn’t cheap. These days they just pick a couple of drivers and tweeters at a profitable price point and then build a crossover to knit them together. They aren’t as good quakity and they were never made to knit together. I’m sure the speaker could’ve been even better with more bracing but I’m being really, really greedy. They really should’ve been double the price they were. And they would still have pissed on the competition. I guess the other factor that stops them being emulated by others is that Robin Marshall seemed to learn from his previous designs and make the next one better. Lots of his M.A. designs appear to sow the seeds for the ES14. The MA852 for instance.He started out better than most and improved. Not many can touch him IMO., Hence why it makes sense to build your own. Really good drivers can be had for a couple of hundred quid or so, how much would you have to spend on a commercial design to have drivers of that quality included? I’d guess a couple of grand but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was more. I’m still sorely tempted to buy some Epos and brace/damp the cabinets as well as removing some of the foam. I heard enough to make me think they could be even more special. |
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Post by dsjr on Sept 3, 2018 17:06:02 GMT
But......😾.......You answer fuk all Dave. Quit your fukin bullshit........I asked why cant today's manufacturers emulate the sound of ES14 ? How hard can it fukin be to not only copy but improve upon a 70s design ? I know where yer coming from Andrew....... But its fukin sad....cop out....looks above sound quality now. Jammy, I'm getting sick and tired of your trolling many posts I make in good part and with some experience, especially here as I knew the designer rather well at the time and Aspergically chatted for hours about them!
The ES14 in it's final form is today, a rather compromised ugly looking box not without some midrange 'box' coloration and either little bass or a one-note boom and this was admitted by Robin himself incidentally. When he was head-hunted and removed from the Epos models, these speakers were still a work in progress, only there was nobody to take it further. Robin made very little on the ES14's and prices doubled under M-S ownership, killing the thing off! The tweeter was by far the weakest part, spitting and fizzing away too much (made worse by 'upgrading' the cap feeding it) and this was next for revision, as it was hobbled to work with the later less sensitive bass driver - look up the Stereophile review.
Of course there's modern speakers able to better them - you think I'm kidding? Otherwise, look at the smaller £2k models available today from, say, Spendor or even the Rega RX3! I reckon ES14's would sell for £1500 to £2000 these days at proper manufacturer profit levels. Mind you, I worry that some of the parts (cones and domes for a start) may have been Celestion sourced in basic form, and the Ipswich factory was demolished many years ago to make way for a housing estate when the brand name went to China... Nobody would take the ES14 shape and fugly stands either these days and that's a shame.
The ES14 ended up a good speaker for Linn/Naim dealers to sell and with port bungs in, it sounds fine with a LP12 source into Naim amps in a Kan kind of way. Port bungs removed it goes funky, but the bass booms in smaller rooms and has no real definition (original ones were designed to be open ported but not the final model as pictured above). They're from the late 1980's to mid 90's. Best leave them there really...
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 3, 2018 17:18:56 GMT
I think they look awesome! Sounds like you didn’t hear the magic some of us did. I’ll admit it wasn’t perfect, but it had a lot more going for it than your appraisal suggests.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 0:59:34 GMT
I find both ES11 & 14 quite decent looking. The 11 look slightly more humble than the 14.
S.
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Post by dsjr on Sept 4, 2018 10:15:06 GMT
I heard the magic all right, but it seems none of you ever saw my posts about these elsewhere!
Look, thirty years ago, couples could be persuaded by the looks - I used to suggest a frothy pot plant in the stand wells for example, for when herself complained about the stands... All that changed in the 90's when 'she' would loudly announce that "NO WAY ARE THESE GOING IN MY LOUNGE!!!"
I was close to the evolution of these speakers,knowing Robin from his mid '70's days and we had long chats regarding the tweaks and Tunings he made and why he made them. Apologies for my harshness here, but these things weren't finished when he basically gave them up and I'm angry and saddened the tweeters never had the development they deserved and they fizzled the way they did because Robin didn't want to add a resistor to attenuate it. The ES11 had a parallel resistor to match impedances, but the balance was perceived as a little bland in the manner of BBC derived speakers. The ES11 befitted from upgraded tweeter caps, but the 14 didn't really as the increased top exposed the tweeter even more.
I moved on up to the ATC 20 passives in late 1992 and these took the concept further and higher for me at the time, making the ES14 sound a bit scrappy. Current passive 20's are four grand now, so silly money for what they are imo, but then, they were £1250 and perfectly fitted the ES14 stands once the cabinet estroying top spikes were replaced with small clear bump-ons, which made no sonic degradation at all that we could hear!
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Post by macca on Sept 4, 2018 17:48:29 GMT
I agree with Dave.
We like what we like but no speaker is perfect, especially not a rinky-dink little 2 way like the ES14. Legendary products, yes, I agree they did make a stir and people still use them and love them even now so fair enough. But there is deffo some rose tinted nostalgia going on here.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 6:09:03 GMT
"Rinky Dink little 2 Way"😈
Wash yer mouth out macca, they're 3 times larger than my "Little Legends"😇
Moving swiftly on.............
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Post by karma67 on Sept 8, 2018 19:01:35 GMT
I guess the other factor that stops them being emulated by others is that Robin Marshall seemed to learn from his previous designs and make the next one better. Lots of his M.A. designs appear to sow the seeds for the ES14. The MA852 for instance.He started out better than most and improved. Not many can touch him IMO., i have owned the ma-852md its a cracking little speaker,i also owned the rarer ma-952md which i wish i kept. |
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Post by dsjr on Sept 9, 2018 6:34:48 GMT
I think they look awesome! Sounds like you didn’t hear the magic some of us did. I’ll admit it wasn’t perfect, but it had a lot more going for it than your appraisal suggests. Sonus Faber Concerto's were price comparable by the end. Different quality product altogether we thought. Try a pair on their adjustable stands, set them up with tweeter level or slightly above ear level and then tell me I'm an old has been who doesn't recognise quality parts and gear when shown them! There. I think my job is done now. Not sure anyone really reads into what I'm trying to say to burst over-honeyed memories, so no point in continuing as the picture is always bigger than I can obviously describe, including the other thread now mostly deleted. The 14 started out as a superior Rega ELA competitor and finished up double the price and no better at all sadly to compete with the bigger boys. Linn Ninka's looked so much better too. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 9, 2018 7:39:58 GMT
I think they look awesome! Sounds like you didn’t hear the magic some of us did. I’ll admit it wasn’t perfect, but it had a lot more going for it than your appraisal suggests. Sonus Faber Concerto's were price comparable by the end. Different quality product altogether we thought. Try a pair on their adjustable stands, set them up with tweeter level or slightly above ear level and then tell me I'm an old has been who doesn't recognise quality parts and gear when shown them! There. I think my job is done now. Not sure anyone really reads into what I'm trying to say to burst over-honeyed memories, so no point in continuing as the picture is always bigger than I can obviously describe, including the other thread now mostly deleted. The 14 started out as a superior Rega ELA competitor and finished up double the price and no better at all sadly to compete with the bigger boys. Linn Ninka's looked so much better too. Never heard the Ninkas. I worked with someone who yheought they were the strongest part of their (all Linn) system. |
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Post by antonio on Sept 9, 2018 7:54:56 GMT
DSJR - how much were the Epos 14 at the end?, you say they were price comparable to the SF Cocerto's. I remember paying £299 in black ash and the wood veneer were £295.
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Post by dsjr on Sept 9, 2018 8:06:56 GMT
DSJR - how much were the Epos 14 at the end?, you say they were price comparable to the SF Cocerto's. I remember paying £299 in black ash and the wood veneer were £295. Around nine hundred the pair from memory and I think that was excluding stands. |
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