Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 28, 2023 18:13:02 GMT
Today was the day that the TEAC CDT came to play, and with it came our resident poster of down to earth opinion and logic, Macca. I couldn't quite believe it had been 5-6 years since he was here last, but when we dissected what system I had at the time, there was no doubt. For this occasion was not only an opportunity for me to hear this new off the shelf CDT, but also a chance for Macca to hear what I had done since he was here last…..which is a lot.
The system previously consisted of a DCB1 preamp, PecanPi DAC, Krell KSA100 MK1 and Pioneer CS-77A speakers. As I said, it’s been a while.
We decided to allow the CDT to warm up while Martin got his head around the system. The X50D has been on 24/7 so no need to warm that up. We played a fair bit of music in that hour. Tracks from Robert Plant, Gary Moore, ZZ Top….the list goes on.
After a little while Martin turned to me and offered the following opinion (not verbatim)
“If I had one criticism, it would be that it’s too smooth…almost overly smooth. It’s missing some crunch. It’s also missing a bit of air and space around the HF”
I wasn't entirely in agreement. The system is refined and i have always thought of it as such, but i then started listening to it for crunch and yea, i can see what Martin was getting at. The room and acoustic solutions may have impacted the HF’s space and air too. Maybe it was a little too polite. If so, i have no idea what i can do about it at this point. We listened for a while and then got down to business. Files vs CD.
The plan was to rip the CDs and then put the rip on the X50D and compare it to the CD it came from. I had already done a few rips prior to Martin's visit, but he had two CDs with him. Joni Mitchell Blue, and Dire Straits - Love over Gold. I ripped Joni Mitchell first and we compared “The last time i saw Richard”
I will keep the description fairly brief so as to not fatigue you all, but my perception of what I heard was that when we played it on the X50D, the soundstage seemed to flatten off a bit, front to back. It was wide, but it didn't seem to have a lot of depth VS the TEAC’s presentation. The TEAC equalled the X50Ds soundstage width, but it had more space front to back and top to bottom. This gave me the impression of a more natural presentation, with better 3D imaging. There was also one other change I noticed. When JM played the piano, via the CDT, it sounded more vibrant, more dynamic. Admittedly, it's maybe a 2-5% difference, but it’s how I felt when I heard it. Quite honestly, I don't know if you’d pick it out of a line up with any regularity, but I felt it, and it was a feeling that didn’t leave me all the way through today's session.
We played Peter Schneider’s - Secret Mission album and again, to me, via the CDT, the trumpets had more “thrasp” when they were played, and if i am being 100% honest, it sounded more alive, like it was bouncing along, like it was fun for them to play and it was fun for me to listen to.
The session was bloody brilliant, and in a world where you had to pick one or the other, we both said we would pick the CDT, which surprised me as I had absolutely no inclination that I would feel that way when we started this session.
Funnily enough, when we swapped from the “internet obtained” FLAC files to WAV files ripped from the CD’s, that feeling of everything being too smooth went away. There was absolutely nothing to grumble about SQ wise. In fact, it sounded epic to me. I know that when you download P2P shared files you are at the mercy of the quality of them, and yes, i am sure my official purchase of Sera Una Noche file (AIFF) would sound epic too, but the fact is that i only have a couple of VERY decent files like that, vs an entire library of files with origins i have no idea of.
One of the things that became apparent today was that buying a CD with the EXACT mastering you want is a very desirable thing. The copies of Joni Mitchell and Dire Straits that Martin brought with him were FAR superior to even the 24/96 versions of both albums that I have, which were P2P downloads btw. Which kind of proves the point.
In the midst of all of this, it’s easy to forget why this session was arranged, but i should point it out as I feel it’s a point worth making.
Originally, I had questioned CD’s or CDT’s ability to match modern day technology. I bought an old Audiolab 8000CDM and gave it a damn good listen. Ultimately that fell by the wayside due to reliability, but it wasn’t up to it sonically either. The TEAC is a whole different story. It’s right up there with one of the best file based transports i have heard, and in my humble opinion, if you own an X50D you should be extremely pleased with it, especially if you get the PSU changed. However, for me, the future of digital in my house looks to be CDs.
The X50D has been sold, and I have bought a TEAC VRDS - 701CDT in silver.
Humongous thanks to Martin for dragging the TEAC down here for a listen. I owe you a pint or two at the next show/bakeoff 
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Post by brucew268 on Sept 28, 2023 18:32:07 GMT
What, X50D sold already and Martin hasn't even made it back to his house?!! Yes, I'm heading toward the same conclusion about CD vs file-based playing, even when you do know the provenance of the files unless you spend comparatively silly money. I'm not there yet (to the firm conclusion) but....
It's also worth repeating here that your reliability problems were with a fairly old used Audiolab not a current one. You comment was not meant as a slight on Audiolab reliability I think.
"if you own one you should be extremely pleased with it, especially if you get the PSU changed."
Did you mean a TEAC with PSU changed or "the best file based transports"? It's a bit unclear above.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 28, 2023 18:47:47 GMT
What, X50D sold already and Martin hasn't even made it back to his house?!! Yes, I'm heading toward the same conclusion about CD vs file-based playing, even when you do know the provenance of the files unless you spend comparatively silly money. I'm not there yet (to the firm conclusion) but.... It's also worth repeating here that your reliability problems were with a fairly old used Audiolab not a current one. You comment was not meant as a slight on Audiolab reliability I think. "if you own one you should be extremely pleased with it, especially if you get the PSU changed." Did you mean a TEAC with PSU changed or "the best file based transports"? It's a bit unclear above. Points taken and original post amended. 👍 Regarding your post: Yep....I dont hang about lol It evolved from a session about "what's best" to just listening to the music. We played Oasis - Definitely Maybe, and it's a really coarse recording, as they wanted it to be, but it was magic. It sounded great and there was as much crunch on the guitars as you could ever want. That sold it to me really. It was a great session. No fatigue, and the time ran out on us really quickly. Can't argue with that. |
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Post by gninnam on Sept 28, 2023 20:00:52 GMT
Nice summation of your listening experience Oli and thanks for sharing.
The silver disc won - was never expecting that to be honest!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 28, 2023 20:41:02 GMT
Nice summation of your listening experience Oli and thanks for sharing. The silver disc won - was never expecting that to be honest! Thanks, No, it wasn't how I thought it would go either, but I go where the gut says. |
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Post by macca on Sept 28, 2023 21:02:45 GMT
I'm speaking with TEAC. see if they will put me on commission No hanging about there just go for it. I like it. I put a few thoughts up: Always enjoy a meet up with Ollie because like me he never gets bored of talking hi-fi. Plus I did want to get a listen to his Troels speakers. The streamer vs CD was very interesting. The random files from the internet we listened to first didn't sound so great to me, but I think there was a couple of things at play. First I had to adapt to a very different room and although the speakers are not dissimilar to those I own (both three-way front ported towers) the overall presentation was quite different. Second I had only just got out of a car from a 40 minute trip down the motorway, I know that the noise from that dulls my hearing for a while after. Much later when we played another of those files it sounded fine. With the cd copied to hard drive vs the same CD in the player, both synchronised, we could swap fairly fast between the two. (Now I think about it, having one running ahead of the other might have been better). Have to say I did not hear any specific differences, except maybe the decay on Joni Mitchell's piano was not so delicate with the streamer. Also as Ollie mentions the trumpets maybe had a bit more rasp. But Ollie did blind test me - I got two right and two wrong. If there are differences they are at best tiny at least for me. Gut instinct though - If it was a dealer demo and I had to walk out with the transport or the streamer, sound quality the only factor - I'd walk out with the transport. But it's a choice I already made so I'm going to have some bias. But onto the speakers - yes, once I was acclimatised I could start hearing all the good things they do We listened to the whole of Oasis - 'Definitely Maybe' which is probably the second best test disc you can get after Thin Lizzy 'Live And Dangerous.' The Oasis will show up any crap speaker usually within seconds. A studio recording mixed to sound like a gig in a working man's club. Hardly any mid-bass, a shedload of very low bass, dense mix, musically raucous. It's a killer. Well, it sounded great, top to bottom with everything there - for example you could even hear the backing vocals which are well buried in the mix without having to actively listen out for them. Yes, that's the sort of thing I base my judgements on, I'm afraid. Bass goes deeper than my speakers even though they are maybe 50 percent larger, the kick drum had power behind it mine don't do. But then on a lot of speakers that kick drum isn't there at all. Never got untidy but they didn't smother the recording either. They are very refined but not to the point where it starts killing the sound. Great speakers. Plus the finish on them is outstanding. Anyway thanks for having me Oli - when is your TEAC turning up? |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 28, 2023 21:56:13 GMT
macca it was great to see you. I had a cracking time. I was trying to explain what I heard to the new owner of the X50D earlier. They knew this bakeoff was happening and were primed to pounce once I'd made a decision. You're right about it being subtle, as it definitely was not night and day at all. It was small, but in terms of what ignites my brain, the TEAC seemed to do it on tracks I've heard millions of times in file form, which hadn't done it before, or maybe not as much/memorable? I had goosebumps on my shins when I played Eva Cassidy via the TEAC. That's only happened on Vinyl previously, so for me, it kind of decided itself. It may be that I wanted one and therefore the mind has given me the reaction required to buy one....I wouldn't put anything past the grey matter! I'm glad you enjoyed the speakers. I am a huge fan, and for you to compliment them is great. I know you're a speaker fan, so that's a result. I've never really listened to Oasis on the system, mainly because my download is a bit glitchy, so today was a surprise when it sounded so bloody good. The bass must come from the rear wall reinforcment behind the speakers, but it is great to have it. Delivery of the TEAC is estimated around mid October. I'm hoping it's a bit quicker and it gets here for my birthday. Ive requested two CDs from the wife for the occasion, Kula Shaker - 2.0 and Acoustic Alchemy - Natural Elements. I now need to spend a few days sorting out the huge amount of CDs in the garage as I discovered that my cousin took all of the CDs out of the Jewel cases and put the discs in sleeves....it is not going to be fun organising them 🤣 .
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Post by antonio on Sept 29, 2023 1:31:21 GMT
Pleased you both had an enjoyable time, but selling the X50D, you're gonna have to buy the back catalogue of Acoustic Alchemy which is available on Qobuz.  Oh, I'm listening to Against the Grain from my internal storage at the moment, but will be giving William Ackerman a go from Qobuz next. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 29, 2023 6:05:23 GMT
Pleased you both had an enjoyable time, but selling the X50D, you're gonna have to buy the back catalogue of Acoustic Alchemy which is available on Qobuz. Oh, I'm listening to Against the Grain from my internal storage at the moment, but will be giving William Ackerman a go from Qobuz next. I don't like streaming, Dave. I've tried it three times now and it doesn't work for me. I think it's the library is just too big and I get lost in it for ages. I noticed when I use CDTs that intend to listen to entire albums too, which I do with vinyl. Yet with files/streaming my brain is always looking at the next track. This is going to be an expensive decision. The swap from X50D to TEAC may be very close to cost-neutral, but rebuilding a CD collection is going to take ages and a fair bit of cash. |
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Arke
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Post by Arke on Sept 29, 2023 6:17:32 GMT
Great write ups Oli and Martin! Sounds like a great bake off. I have a large box of CDs and look forward to adding a CD player to my system... Perhaps a TEAC!
I must admit to being a little envious of anyone listening to great hifi atm 😂. Mine is still packaged away and I yearn to get it setup again! Not long though... Hopefully the week after next.
It'll be amazing to listen again and welcome people here for bake offs too.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 29, 2023 6:19:52 GMT
DISASTER!
The seller has contacted me to say they cannot supply the CDT as they haven't got any left.
I KNEW it all went too smoothly. How disappointing.
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Arke
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Post by Arke on Sept 29, 2023 6:23:48 GMT
DISASTER! The seller has contacted me to say they cannot supply the CDT as they haven't got any left. I KNEW it all went too smoothly. How disappointing. Very sad face! Although, not all is lost. You shall find another soon. Good luck with the search mate. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 29, 2023 6:25:09 GMT
DISASTER! The seller has contacted me to say they cannot supply the CDT as they haven't got any left. I KNEW it all went too smoothly. How disappointing. Very sad face! Although, not all is lost. You shall find another soon. Good luck with the search mate. It's a bit of a pisser as that one (plus three others) were sold at £1425.... |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 29, 2023 6:26:23 GMT
Great write ups Oli and Martin! Sounds like a great bake off. I have a large box of CDs and look forward to adding a CD player to my system... Perhaps a TEAC! I must admit to being a little envious of anyone listening to great hifi atm 😂. Mine is still packaged away and I yearn to get it setup again! Not long though... Hopefully the week after next. It'll be amazing to listen again and welcome people here for bake offs too. Thanks Jason. The speakers did really well BTW. |
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Post by Arke on Sept 29, 2023 6:30:37 GMT
Great write ups Oli and Martin! Sounds like a great bake off. I have a large box of CDs and look forward to adding a CD player to my system... Perhaps a TEAC! I must admit to being a little envious of anyone listening to great hifi atm 😂. Mine is still packaged away and I yearn to get it setup again! Not long though... Hopefully the week after next. It'll be amazing to listen again and welcome people here for bake offs too. Thanks Jason. The speakers did really well BTW. That is always great to hear! I can't wait to start building again! |
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Post by stevew on Sept 29, 2023 7:04:02 GMT
Pleased you both had an enjoyable time, but selling the X50D, you're gonna have to buy the back catalogue of Acoustic Alchemy which is available on Qobuz. Oh, I'm listening to Against the Grain from my internal storage at the moment, but will be giving William Ackerman a go from Qobuz next. I don't like streaming, Dave. I've tried it three times now and it doesn't work for me. I think it's the library is just too big and I get lost in it for ages. I noticed when I use CDTs that intend to listen to entire albums too, which I do with vinyl. Yet with files/streaming my brain is always looking at the next track. This is going to be an expensive decision. The swap from X50D to TEAC may be very close to cost-neutral, but rebuilding a CD collection is going to take ages and a fair bit of cash. Wow, brave choices being made! Understandable though. I always struggle with selecting when delving into Qobuz library. Even my own saved favourites list can seem overwhelming. Nice to have something physical to ponder.. for me I want to downsize everything with a view to moving at some point. Out of curiosity I looked up the prices of the Teac. Ouch.. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 29, 2023 7:09:17 GMT
I don't like streaming, Dave. I've tried it three times now and it doesn't work for me. I think it's the library is just too big and I get lost in it for ages. I noticed when I use CDTs that intend to listen to entire albums too, which I do with vinyl. Yet with files/streaming my brain is always looking at the next track. This is going to be an expensive decision. The swap from X50D to TEAC may be very close to cost-neutral, but rebuilding a CD collection is going to take ages and a fair bit of cash. Wow, brave choices being made! Understandable though. I always struggle with selecting when delving into Qobuz library. Even my own saved favourites list can seem overwhelming. Nice to have something physical to ponder.. for me I want to downsize everything with a view to moving at some point. Out of curiosity I looked up the prices of the Teac. Ouch.. There were a few for sale in Italy for £1425...which it seems I was slightly too late to take advantage of. It's certainly ouch now. I'll just have to save up a bit as that's now a bit of a stretch. |
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Post by bencat on Sept 29, 2023 8:06:07 GMT
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 29, 2023 8:30:06 GMT
Thanks for the link, but I've heard the TEAC and I am convinced that's the way I want to go. Spending £600 takes me £600 further away and there's no way I'm recouping that if I manage to flog the Shanling....which in itself is another thing I'd have to do. I'm just going to have to be patient. |
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Post by brucew268 on Sept 29, 2023 8:45:14 GMT
I now need to spend a few days sorting out the huge amount of CDs in the garage as I discovered that my cousin took all of the CDs out of the Jewel cases and put the discs in sleeves....it is not going to be fun organising them 🤣 I'd had the bright idea of putting my library into sleeves but only got through 50 before I realised I couldn't come up with a storage and display setup that would work. And browsing became much more difficult than I'd hoped, leafing through sleeves, trying to get a view of the end label, and flipping past some without seeing. So last week I bought 50 jewel boxes and have been putting them back in their native habitat. Works a lot better on the shelf, but I need more CD-appropriate shelves. Enter Wayfair. … you're gonna have to buy the back catalogue of Acoustic Alchemy which is available on Qobuz. I don't like streaming, Dave. ... The swap from X50D to TEAC may be very close to cost-neutral, but rebuilding a CD collection is going to take ages and a fair bit of cash. Regardless of what Dave meant, he said "buy the back catalogue". Qobuz has a download store that you can then burn to CD. Does anyone go that direction anymore?! Yes. As to other CD's the cost can be lessened a bit by finding used CD's in Amazon's Marketplace often bought and delivered for £3.50-5.00. It still adds up but not as fast.
DISASTER! The seller has contacted me to say they cannot supply the CDT as they haven't got any left. I KNEW it all went too smoothly. How disappointing. Sorry, that bites. You may have to pick up that silver Open box 6000CDT (new) on the 'bay in the meantime. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266262643425 |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 29, 2023 9:03:06 GMT
I now need to spend a few days sorting out the huge amount of CDs in the garage as I discovered that my cousin took all of the CDs out of the Jewel cases and put the discs in sleeves....it is not going to be fun organising them 🤣 I'd had the bright idea of putting my library into sleeves but only got through 50 before I reliased I couldn't come up with a storage and display setup that would work. And browsing became much more difficult than I'd hoped, leafing through sleeves, trying to get a view of the end label, and flipping past some without seeing. So last week I bought 50 jewel boxes and have been putting them back in their native habitat. Works a lot better on the shelf, but I need more CD-appropriate shelves. Enter Wayfair. I don't like streaming, Dave. ... The swap from X50D to TEAC may be very close to cost-neutral, but rebuilding a CD collection is going to take ages and a fair bit of cash. Regardless of what Dave meant, he said "buy the back catalogue". Qobuz has a download store that you can then burn to CD. Does anyone go that direction anymore?! Yes. As to other CD's the cost can be lessened a bit by finding used CD's in Amazon's Marketplace often bought and delivered for £3.50-5.00. It still adds up but not as fast.
DISASTER! The seller has contacted me to say they cannot supply the CDT as they haven't got any left. I KNEW it all went too smoothly. How disappointing. Sorry, that bites. You may have to pick up that silver Open box 6000CDT (new) on the 'bay in the meantime. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266262643425Yeah, I need some shelves as I don't have anything that CDs can live on. Secondly, there is a serious space issue I need to find a way to get around. One issue at a time. I am going to be very picky about which CDs I buy, and at present I am looking for ones with great dynamic range via the Dynamic Range Database. I'm also only interested in original CDs, so burning stuff isn't an option. Space is a premium, so they have to be keepers. I'm also going to avoid buying anything I already have on vinyl, so this should save me a few quid. RE a transport, a member has very kindly gifted one to me...if he can find it 🤣, which I will be collecting on Monday. This is such a great little forum. |
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Post by bencat on Sept 29, 2023 9:08:14 GMT
Oli if that one does not turn up I have a Merdian 200 you could borrow . Not the best but pretty good . Let me know if you need it .
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Post by macca on Sept 29, 2023 10:11:06 GMT
DISASTER! The seller has contacted me to say they cannot supply the CDT as they haven't got any left. I KNEW it all went too smoothly. How disappointing. That's a shame but no doubt more will be along soon. It's funny - There's supposed to be a cost of living crisis, hi-fi is supposed to be s dying interest, CD is supposed to be a dead medium, but £1500 CD transports are flying off the shelves. Does make you wonder. |
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Post by mikeyb on Sept 29, 2023 10:33:25 GMT
It's funny - There's supposed to be a cost of living crisis, hi-fi is supposed to be s dying interest, CD is supposed to be a dead medium, but £1500 CD transports are flying off the shelves. Does make you wonder. It might be because vinyl has become so expensive, and manufacturers are very clever at creating 'demand' Mind you, even I've looked at new releases and thought ok cd is £10 or the LP at 35/40 it's a no brainier |
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Post by macca on Sept 29, 2023 11:32:12 GMT
It's funny - There's supposed to be a cost of living crisis, hi-fi is supposed to be s dying interest, CD is supposed to be a dead medium, but £1500 CD transports are flying off the shelves. Does make you wonder. It might be because vinyl has become so expensive, and manufacturers are very clever at creating 'demand' Mind you, even I've looked at new releases and thought ok cd is £10 or the LP at 35/40 it's a no brainier True. If you account for inflation since 1987, vinyl should be around £16 for a single album A CD should be £27.50 |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 29, 2023 11:37:58 GMT
Oli if that one does not turn up I have a Merdian 200 you could borrow . Not the best but pretty good . Let me know if you need it . Thanks for that. It's appreciated. I will let you know 👍 |
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Post by ijrussell on Sept 29, 2023 14:18:39 GMT
I have a Chevron Audio Sony DVD player with a clock upgrade that you could borrow if you want to.
My offer to bring the Jay's Audio CDT2 MK3 round still stands. I'm available any time next week (Oct 2 - Oct 6).
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 29, 2023 14:42:27 GMT
I have a Chevron Audio Sony DVD player with a clock upgrade that you could borrow if you want to. My offer to bring the Jay's Audio CDT2 MK3 round still stands. I'm available any time next week (Oct 2 - Oct 6). Hi Ian, I could do the week after? Although I'll have lost my reference point by then. |
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Post by ijrussell on Sept 29, 2023 15:14:08 GMT
I have a Chevron Audio Sony DVD player with a clock upgrade that you could borrow if you want to. My offer to bring the Jay's Audio CDT2 MK3 round still stands. I'm available any time next week (Oct 2 - Oct 6). Hi Ian, I could do the week after? Although I'll have lost my reference point by then. I should be available most of the week after. . |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 29, 2023 16:24:19 GMT
Hi Ian, I could do the week after? Although I'll have lost my reference point by then. I should be available most of the week after. . Ok, I'll PM you next week and sort something out. |
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