|
|
Post by macca on Aug 25, 2018 6:39:44 GMT
It would have to live on the floor like mine does. But on the plus side you've got 1600 watts into 1 ohm.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2018 7:17:12 GMT
Wots that into 8ohms Macca ?
|
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Aug 25, 2018 9:57:42 GMT
I got the opposite impression from that review - that there wasn't really that much in it. I mean he's got to write something hasn't he. He just makes the most of some vague subjective impressions to fill the page. I mean how different are two 50 watt high current class A amplifiers designed by the same bloke going to sound? None of the Krells were 'full-on' Class A I remember, even the original 50 I seem to recall. Great if expensive compromises though and of course yours has the variable 'Plateau bias' which ramps up and down according to demand.
Please chaps forgive me again - old gear is old gear and the original service life, even of Top End, is around ten years, any extension of this a massive bonus really. I've just stung myself on something made in 1986 or so, which I'm going to give my best shot to, but I'm not hopeful currently..
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2018 11:16:45 GMT
Service life isn't really an issue for me. I can get pretty much anything repaired locally, it's not a barrier to a purchase.
I think, I'm might just wait until I can get a second SM-70. Run them in Monoblock formation and continue to be impressed daily. These are class A throughout.
I get the point about not having the same speakers forever but I can't see me buying inefficient speakers either. I know anything can change at anytime but who knows what's next.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2018 11:17:39 GMT
It would have to live on the floor like mine does. But on the plus side you've got 1600 watts into 1 ohm. Hmm, that wouldn't work. |
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,434
|
Post by Bigman80 on Aug 25, 2018 13:09:19 GMT
I got the opposite impression from that review - that there wasn't really that much in it. I mean he's got to write something hasn't he. He just makes the most of some vague subjective impressions to fill the page. I mean how different are two 50 watt high current class A amplifiers designed by the same bloke going to sound? None of the Krells were 'full-on' Class A I remember, even the original 50 I seem to recall. Great if expensive compromises though and of course yours has the variable 'Plateau bias' which ramps up and down according to demand. Please chaps forgive me again - old gear is old gear and the original service life, even of Top End, is around ten years, any extension of this a massive bonus really. I've just stung myself on something made in 1986 or so, which I'm going to give my best shot to, but I'm not hopeful currently..
Love the avatar, Dave, your best yet. |
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,434
|
Post by Bigman80 on Aug 25, 2018 13:12:16 GMT
BTW please don’t take any notice of my opinions on the Krells. I can’t vouch for them being anything other than my own.
|
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Aug 25, 2018 13:13:34 GMT
Peter Swain has nothing on me in full set-up mode.... Actually he does and then some, as he's the only other person I know now with extensive skill in sorting out old ones and he does a lovely clean and neat job too...
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,434
|
Post by Bigman80 on Aug 25, 2018 13:15:50 GMT
Personally I’d far rather have you set one up if I got one again. You can’t beat love and passion for the kit and he can’t compete with you on that score imo.
I must admit that I still think very fondly of the LP12.
|
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Aug 25, 2018 13:26:00 GMT
Pete is now on a different plane to me as he's built up experience of all eras of the deck, has a stock of good traded in parts and expert knowledge of what plinths and bearings to accept or avoid, especially now, when borderline bearings in the mid 80's originally 'saved' by the black oil, are now knackered. Plinths may look the same outside, but internal build as well as the wood type used in critical areas, really does have an audible effect and he now knows what plinths to avoid if possible. It's fifteen years since I last set up an LP12, but I have to say the new ones 'fall together' in comparison with the 80's examples and need very little messing about.
Shortly before my old store changed hands, I enquired about my set-up jig, which was languishing in the garage there. Sadly, it was scrapped a few weeks before I asked, after one chap kept it for as long as possible. Shame, as Regas, Thorens and a good few other decks fitted it.
An old friend has just ordered an early 80's based but totally rebuilt example from them for around a grand with properly serviced Basik Plus arm. The pics he's sent me from top and underneath, brought back so many memories it was overwhelming. Thankfully, I believe I did as good a job as he - and then I discovered the Spacedeck with moved the vinyl goal-posts, for me anyway and this latter needs little set-up and neither is it unduly siting fussy.. Mind you, the LP12 and the TD150 upon which it's so closely based is a timeless visual, if nothing else.
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,434
|
Post by Bigman80 on Aug 25, 2018 14:38:03 GMT
Pete is now on a different plane to me as he's built up experience of all eras of the deck, has a stock of good traded in parts and expert knowledge of what plinths and bearings to accept or avoid, especially now, when borderline bearings in the mid 80's originally 'saved' by the black oil, are now knackered. Plinths may look the same outside, but internal build as well as the wood type used in critical areas, really does have an audible effect and he now knows what plinths to avoid if possible. It's fifteen years since I last set up an LP12, but I have to say the new ones 'fall together' in comparison with the 80's examples and need very little messing about. Shortly before my old store changed hands, I enquired about my set-up jig, which was languishing in the garage there. Sadly, it was scrapped a few weeks before I asked, after one chap kept it for as long as possible. Shame, as Regas, Thorens and a good few other decks fitted it. An old friend has just ordered an early 80's based but totally rebuilt example from them for around a grand with properly serviced Basik Plus arm. The pics he's sent me from top and underneath, brought back so many memories it was overwhelming. Thankfully, I believe I did as good a job as he - and then I discovered the Spacedeck with moved the vinyl goal-posts, for me anyway and this latter needs little set-up and neither is it unduly siting fussy.. Mind you, the LP12 and the TD150 upon which it's so closely based is a timeless visual, if nothing else. Our service engineer used to prefer using an Ariston jig to set up LP12s because it tilted. I used to sit my LP12s between two Ikea lack tables and lie underneath. Functional albeit precarious. |
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Aug 25, 2018 15:17:17 GMT
'Underneath' the jig, we used a (Philips?) bench mat - thick rubber open-grid structure to catch bits if they fell. I had a bar-stool just the right height so I could do under-work the way my current avatar shows, with deck sitting on this bench-mat and opposite edge on my forehead. Setting up was easy for me then, the deck then finishing off in the jig, which was slightly simpler in original form. Most of us got 'shocks' from the exposed Valhalla kit if forgetting it was connected... My unfortunate colleague in London had a right belt from one, pulled his arm back and the deck came with him, landing on the floor... The poor client got practically a new LP12 replacement as recompense I remember.
Happy days.........
|
|
|
|
Post by macca on Aug 25, 2018 21:35:15 GMT
Wots that into 8ohms Macca 200 watts. Also there's no point getting hung up on the whole class A thing. It's no guarantee of anything. Plenty of good-sounding class B amps out there. And by all accounts class D as well. Although I've not heard any class D myself I don't think. We had a pro amp at MiBO that was class G/H - yeah, look it up. It was pretty good as well, 1000 watts or something equally ridiculous. The big advantage of a Krell is that it is effortless into any load. That's something you want if you use speakers that demand current delivery or if you like to crank it up with some hard rock and still have it stay clean in the harmonics, even on the peaks. You really notice it there compared to a lot of amplifiers. If your tastes in music are on the more mellow side or your speakers are really easy to drive then there's not much point in getting one. Still be good but it's just overkill. ohm |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2018 21:58:57 GMT
Just buy a Quad 909 and avoid all the angst. Bags of power and excellent sound at a realistic price. 140w into 8 ohms and 250w into 4ohms is not to be sniffed at. All from an amp with Class B output.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2018 21:59:54 GMT
Just buy a Quad 909 and avoid all the angst. Bags of power and excellent sound at a realistic price. 140w into 8 ohms and 250w into 4ohms is not to be sniffed at. Are you using a 909? S. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2018 22:01:40 GMT
No. The only Quad power-amp I have handy is the 306, but I've heard the 909.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2018 22:06:57 GMT
Nice. Did you find it smooth sounding?
S.
|
|
|
|
Post by macca on Aug 25, 2018 22:10:20 GMT
A 303 will do if you don't want high levels and the speaks are an easy load. A 303 with a good passive into some big, efficient vintage speakers is the sound a lot of people are looking for I reckon and you can get that combo for next to nothing compared to what they are actually buying to try and get there.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2018 22:22:02 GMT
Nice. Did you find it smooth sounding? S. Smooth enough, quite like the 306 in character from what I could tell. Paired with the Promitheus TVC, the 306 sounds really nice and I've not even done any mods to it yet (I have to admit though, that most of the time lately, I've been running the Sugden Optima, although I suspect the 306/TVC combo may just have the edge). The 303 is less revealing, which can be a good or bad thing depending on the rest of the system. I've had one in my system a couple of times, it's not for me. Rather like the Audiolab 8000 and NAD 2030, the sound is 'safe', but a bit thick to my ears. |
|
|
|
Post by antonio on Aug 26, 2018 5:10:33 GMT
Nothing to dislike about the 909 as long as you don't mind the top end being rolled off. I will say it was soundly beaten by my NVA A60.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 6:10:17 GMT
Nothing to dislike about the 909 as long as you don't mind the top end being rolled off. I will say it was soundly beaten by my NVA A60. Agreed. Rolled off, thick sounding and pretty veiled. That's been my experience of Quad amps. Not heard a 909 though. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2018 7:49:51 GMT
Nothing to dislike about the 909 as long as you don't mind the top end being rolled off. I will say it was soundly beaten by my NVA A60. That's been my experience of Quad amps. Not heard a 909 though. The 909 and 306 sound very clear, not veiled at all. I'd expect the 606 to sound similar, but I don't recall hearing one. |
|
|
|
Post by dsjr on Aug 26, 2018 9:02:20 GMT
Depends on the preamp and the 'issue' of 909 as some Chinese ones used sub-standard caps (all on the dada site with measurements to prove what was heard).
The current Artera power amp looks slightly better and sounds great to me (Artera Play source and balanced connections were used)
|
|
|
|
Post by antonio on Aug 26, 2018 9:24:30 GMT
The 909 was not a Chinese knock off, was tried in both my NVA system and also using my brother's dCS as a pre-amp. Just in case you have any doubts as to using the dCS, it made my P50 sound a little thick and course when used in between that and his power amp.
|
|
Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,434
|
Post by Bigman80 on Aug 26, 2018 19:56:01 GMT
I only really knew the 306, 606 and 495/2. (96 was a decent amp, if a little characterless..
|
|
