Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,152
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 11, 2018 5:49:42 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 5:52:19 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 6:37:41 GMT
Yup, some fond memories of the good old cassette deck.
I could never see past the Aiwa & Akai models, some gorgeous machines and sound engineering.....The Nak Dragon was well out of my price range when I was an apprentice.
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Post by macca on Aug 11, 2018 7:57:56 GMT
The Dragon was around a grand back in the 1980s so an impossible dream. I also always wanted the Aiwa. No point now though.
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Post by dsjr on Aug 11, 2018 8:43:43 GMT
I've had a 700, 700ZX-E, LX5 (faulty), BX2, 682ZX, CR4, CR7, Dragon in my time (nearly lost me my job,that one), used the ZX9 and for fairly long periods too. the Dragon wasn't so hot when first launched but it got better with the years and subtle innards updates, especially in the meter responses and ended up pretty well as good as the CR7. The CR4 changed its azimuth from the beginning to end of a tape too Do I miss 'em? Not a bit. No parts now, not as reliable as you'd think either, and in this world of digital being inaudible from the source, they're too noisy - oh,and the tapes easily lose top if they're not metal oxide ones... Stop listening with your eyes chaps, the reality isn't what's always seen in the visuals  |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,152
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 11, 2018 9:09:27 GMT
I've had a 700, 700ZX-E, LX5 (faulty), BX2, 682ZX, CR4, CR7, Dragon in my time (nearly lost me my job,that one), used the ZX9 and for fairly long periods too. the Dragon wasn't so hot when first launched but it got better with the years and subtle innards updates, especially in the meter responses and ended up pretty well as good as the CR7. The CR4 changed its azimuth from the beginning to end of a tape too Do I miss 'em? Not a bit. No parts now, not as reliable as you'd think either, and in this world of digital being inaudible from the source, they're too noisy - oh,and the tapes easily lose top if they're not metal oxide ones... Stop listening with your eyes chaps, the reality isn't what's always seen in the visuals If anyone does venture into nakamichi territory, the Maugham Amplifier Company in Wallsend are the ones most dealers send their Naks to for servicing. Mr Maughan is a proper old school tech, with more facilities than you could believe. I’d have a nice Nak just as an ornament and toy tbh. Yes,I’d listen to it, but it would really be form over function for me. It helps to hear that Dave has already been there and feels no need to go back. As ever, I’d need a stone cold bargain to scratch the itch anyway. No point in buying anything you can’t profit frim when you move it on IMO. |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,152
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 11, 2018 9:11:42 GMT
The Dragon was around a grand back in the 1980s so an impossible dream. I also always wanted the Aiwa. No point now though. I think it was about £1600 in 1987/88 when I sold them |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,152
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Post by Bigman80 on Aug 11, 2018 9:15:29 GMT
I had one. It was really slick in operation. Looked really “80s” compared to the Nakamichi battleships. That was the only reason I got rid of mine. It just looked a but “tinny” when I’d seen the CR7e and Dragon Dave may know better, but we had one guy who part exed his Dragon then later bought a CR7. All the mags said the CR7 might just be better. He thought it was miles off the Dragon. Ended up buying his old one back for £1200 used when he had part exed it originally for £800. Ouch! |
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Post by dsjr on Aug 11, 2018 9:35:18 GMT
The B&W SHOP (where it all started for Bowers and Wilkins) had properly trained Nak engineers for servicing a few years ago (B&W imported them for a goodly while after Natural Sound Systems ceased importing them in 84 or so). That's how I got my Dragon, for £600 run-out trade price back in 1983 - the trouble that blasted thing caused me - all my own naive doing...
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Post by macca on Aug 11, 2018 9:56:26 GMT
So what happened then Dave?
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Post by dsjr on Aug 11, 2018 11:02:39 GMT
I don't wish to share that particular story as I was very naive, cocky-fresh out of London (which runs at twice the speed or more than anywhere else I think) and not at all popular originally with the B&O inspired manager who used my naivety and arrogance then to royally drop me in it. The whole experience was a wake-up call and why I hate arrogant shits today as I was one myself in many ways then...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 12:48:25 GMT
Stop listening with your eyes chaps, the reality isn't what's always seen in the visuals We know Dave, but too some looks do play a part in the parcel. |
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Post by dsjr on Aug 11, 2018 12:56:41 GMT
I hate to agree, but it's absolutely true...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 13:09:04 GMT
Perhaps its a bridge too far to ask for a hifi system to look visually stunning and sound aurally superb..........
Anyone ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 15:36:45 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2018 14:52:23 GMT
Got three boxes of unwrapped cassettes in my cupboard.
Do not know If I will ever use them, I am a hoarder by nature, also have two boxes each of unmolested unopened VCR tapes and 8 inch reel to reel tapes.
Three brand new VCR machines waiting in the wings, for when my others pack it in the good machines seem to work for ever.
Never owned a fancy cassette deck always liked the Rotels, they sound good and do not give grief.
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Post by macca on Aug 13, 2018 15:15:36 GMT
You can use a VCR as a tape deck, sound bloody good too. I used to know a feller had all of his music copied off CDs onto on VHS tapes.
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Post by dsjr on Aug 13, 2018 16:48:24 GMT
If the scanning heads don't exactly match up, you can get a funny buzzy-hum in the background when using a HiFi-VHS recorder for sound only. If the machine is properly aligned and tapes good, the sound was excellent I remember. My audio-museum owning pal had a Hitachi digital VHS machine. He bought it, played with it for a week or two and then it went on the shelf along with all the other gear he has, including my high speed IEC Revox and most of the Nakamichi's I owned at various times... There was a singlecapstan Sony (611S?) he bought to play with and this was an amazingly good deck I remember. Much simpler and cheaper than a Nak and as good for general recording he thought. P.S. The reference machine used for Dolby S setup was a late Dragon, so all the Dolby S machines had to conform to the Dragon playback response and so on I was told, as Dolby C was such a disaster. On a properly calibrated machine, using Dolby for record and playback was inaudible, the issues occurring in that no two models were usually the same, so Dolby tracking altered from machine to machine.
P.P.S. The Denon 24HX I still have, has a playback response which is 2db up at 14khz, dying thereafter. A similar Nak has a dip here, but is up at 17k and stays out to over 20k. Make a recording on the Nak and it sparkles too much on the Denon. Make a recoding on the Denon and it sounds muffled on the Nak - and it ain't azimuth either.
Cassettes, you can keep 'em - bloody things... The Sony Walkman Pro had the most terrible tearing-flutter at the beginnings of tapes, especially on batteries - try recording an oboe or clarinet on many single capstan machines with high take-up torque - they all bloody do it - ugh!!!
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Post by macca on Aug 13, 2018 16:53:49 GMT
Did anyone ever use Dolby except professional with high end decks? I never used it, the hiss never bothered me much but Dolby B and C always killed the life out of the sound. I admit I only ever had 2 tape decks and they were both budget ones. I had that JVC which everyone seems to have had at some point, then replaced that with a Sony which seemed to have more bass and top although ultimately it was just some bottom-end thud and some tinselly effect.
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Post by dsjr on Aug 13, 2018 17:11:53 GMT
Dolby didn't kill the music, but a badly matched/set up deck killed it!!!!! Get your levels and bias wrong and Dolby magnifies the errors! Been there and done it too many times guv'nor, sorry!
Play a ferric tape a few times and top gets shaved off. Dolby will again magnify it and make it more and more muffled as you don't have playback tones as pros do to set the playback eq first... Azimuth differences from machine to machine could be an issue at one time too as the different set-up tapes were often slightly different.
I took to metal tapes on a good machine like a duck to water. Hiss WAS an issue for me so I used Dolby a lot back then and ran the tapes hard. At some point I should dig the machine and my box of cassettes out and see if it still works (Denons stretched the head-block springs in stop mode and if these have stretched and taken a 'set' I'll get terminal wow with nobody to service it let alone supply spares).
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Post by macca on Aug 13, 2018 19:08:10 GMT
I agree man, metal tapes with noise reduction sounded superb. I simply had the problem that not only could I not afford a deck with the ability to handle metal tapes properly (IIRC there were plenty that claimed to but couldn't) I could not afford the tapes either. It was more than a fiver for one metal tape back then, you could have just bought the LP for that. Cassette died out long before I could afford to get serious about it. And I really wanted one of those Technics with the unfeasibly long LED meters:  My mate Trev had one of these and it was a serious object of lust for me. I was unemployed and dead broke whereas he worked lates in a warehouse and could afford it - second hand of course. Still probably cost him almost a week's wages. |
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