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Post by misterc on Mar 24, 2023 11:39:56 GMT
To help you chaps with setting up the Bodnar GPS ref clock and keeping at peek performance for Audio I would suggest the following setting highlighted below.
Make sure you have the most up to date firmware see link below:
READ the MANUAL FIRST
Connect up clock to your pc of choice via the usb cable and make sure they are talking to each other.
Place your GPS anntena is a good spot high enough in the room to maximise gps tracking comnsistancy.
From six years using these devices I have gound the following setting below to give very good results.
Yes a good LPS makes a difference as does as impedence matched quality cable as well.
MAKE SURE YOU SET OUTPUT ONE TO 10000000 or 10Mhz in factory trim it reads 100Mhz
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 24, 2023 14:48:05 GMT
Thanks Tony!
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Post by misterc on Mar 26, 2023 16:43:45 GMT
Something I forgot mto mention regarding the clock connections from the LB GPS clock they are 50Ohm, the Mutec & pretty most audio BNC inputs are 75Ohm So as good as it sounds now imagine what if the reflections were reduced even more, so you can use an Impedence matching device. For a far more matched impedence pathway I would recommend one of the quality proessional adapters
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Post by brucew268 on Mar 26, 2023 17:23:16 GMT
Stupid question of the day, is the GPS antenna required and used ongoing when reclocking the DAC or just for initial setup?
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Post by misterc on Mar 26, 2023 17:36:05 GMT
Personally I would leave it connected Bruce and just once a week recheck the GPS tracking via the laptop takes about 15 seconds
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Post by bencat on Mar 29, 2023 16:15:17 GMT
Just an additional comment on why I was not able to get this to work straight out of the box . You must not set both output one and two to the same frequency . As Tony says you should not tick the second output box unless you need it and if you do then it has to be a different frequency than output 1 . If as I did you set both to the same (I was going to use the second in to my DAC) then neither works .
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Post by bencat on Mar 30, 2023 10:23:40 GMT
Having happily enjoyed the uplift in music for a few days and while waiting for all the elements to solve the impedance to arrive I started thinking . Now Tony set my LB Clock as he has indicated . Everything works and sounds fine but the output 2 light neve stops flashing as if although ticked as off it continues to look for a signal . Now when everything is stepped out to deal with the Impedance issue I am going to connect the LB Clock up to my pC and switch the output 2 on and set it to another setting than output 1 probably 24Hz and leave that . Nothing will be connected to it but it will lock and stop Blagojevich is annoying and I suspect using processing and electrical power now . I am not expecting it to make any difference but it will at least stop the flashing lights which will please me .
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Post by bencat on Mar 30, 2023 12:49:22 GMT
Forget the above as I failed to get the output 2 to stick . Just follow the original instructions and deal with the flashing light . Sorry .
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Post by dowser on Apr 9, 2023 15:25:10 GMT
Questions if I may misterc ; 1. I have a dCS Delius DAC with wordclock input - can I use the Leo Badnar unit into it? 2. How does this compare to something like the PFM Flea clock if used to replace the stock crystal on a CD player 3. I also have a Philips CD104 & 204 heavily modified and using Abbas Audio external valve clocks, I’m almost interested enough to buy this unit just to compare the the valve driven clock (logically, I never understood why the Abbas clock sounds so good!) Thanks, Richard
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Post by misterc on Apr 9, 2023 17:23:37 GMT
The LB is used to slave the Mutec DDC which also has a sample word clock drived from the reclocked incoming date stream from your CDT or Streamer/server it will not work directly into the dcs dac which only accepts either 44.1 or 48 Multiple integers there of.
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Post by dowser on Apr 9, 2023 18:02:20 GMT
Thanks, but I could set the LB for 44.1? Most of my listening is either red book, or toslink. Thanks! Richard
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Post by misterc on Apr 9, 2023 18:33:14 GMT
Thanks, but I could set the LB for 44.1? Most of my listening is either red book, or toslink. Thanks! Richard Hello Richard
You can set it to 44.1Khz if you wish, imho it works much better at the higher frequences as a master clock its phase noise ability is best from Mhz and above.
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Post by dowser on Apr 10, 2023 7:05:43 GMT
Many thanks - I need to go read up on word clocks perhaps my Delius is also an early one, with no FireWire and only one word clock input…(same as bencat ) but I do not have the Purcell upsampler.
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Post by dowser on Apr 10, 2023 7:39:04 GMT
OK, read up a bit more - the single word clock port on my old (Mk1) Delius is an output, not an input Back to square 1
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Post by misterc on May 11, 2023 22:14:52 GMT
It's been one of those days today, nothing seems to slot into place, parts missing from orders, long phone calls and the god bothering squad on overdrive in our area today you know the sort of day which starts out really well and that heads towards the mason/dixie line at breakneck speed. The rest of the day regressed like a 50-year-old sloth on mogadon. So the big jobs were like naim at a musical reproduction contest, well out of place. What's on the small job rack I wondered, well blow me if it wasn't a Leo Bodnar clock in for some TLC. Repair a DC power jack and 'unfree' a usb cable stack as solid as a Star trek fan to Brent Spiner's coat tails at south end on Sea's annal geek fest. So one small ray of sunshine the nice chaps from Lecroy dropped in to say hello and left a couple of new 'additions' for the Mr. C test cupboard of wonder Well feck it, I know I'll fix this great little device and see how see stacks up measurement wise, also I thought it might good to show you chaps cable issues in a real world dynamic measurement situation and just to throw a venerable hand-diaulic adjustable spanner in the moving parts a They are two plots for two genuine 50 Ohm cables both quality test & measurement standard 1m genuine 50Ohm BNC cables. All signals and amplitudes are identical just the cables were changed.
Bear in mind both cables are matching 50Ohm impedences you can see the deviation on the fall time of the wave form here is pretty large around 780ps wheren are the rise time is far more stable around 11ps
Using the Bodnar clock powered via usb power with cable A
you can see the deviation on the fall time of the wave form here is reduced by around 1/2 the value when using the lab power supply, the rise time is far more stable around 11ps so very little change is the variation of the rise time
Using the Bodnar clock powered via lab power supply with cable A
Now using Cable B we can see a much more even handed deviation across both parameters at 1.6 & 1.2ns although a long time taken its more even plus the wave form far superior is uniformaty linearity departments
Using the Bodnar clock powered via USB power with cable B
The next two images of Cable A and the lab power supply one a jitter analysis suit measurment
The next two images of Cable B with the lab power supply one a jitter analysis suit measurment
Now Cable A with the eye pattern (again lab power supply)
Finially Cable B with the same power supply & settings
So what's the take away here?
Electrical noise (both power line ripple & conducted RF and electromagnetic inteference) can and DOES affect the signal integrity of the gnerated clock reference signal enterng the measuring device along with cable propagationial situtaions/ and or shielding/construction and dielectric.
So does this give us any indication that by addressing the situtaional measured awareness it has a direct correlation to any preceptual audiable differences we may precieve?
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optical
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Post by optical on May 12, 2023 6:43:37 GMT
So what's the take away here?
Electrical noise (both power line ripple & conducted RF and electromagnetic inteference) can and DOES affect the signal integrity of the gnerated clock reference signal enterng the measuring device along with cable propagationial situtaions/ and or shielding/construction and dielectric.
So does this give us any indication that by addressing the situtaional measured awareness it has a direct correlation to any preceptual audiable differences we may precieve?
Thanks for taking the time to do and post this Tony. Interesting test and findings (although I won't pretend to know any of the what's and the how's). Your last question is the most important (from my perspective) and I think the answer would be quite system dependant. Cheers
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Post by bencat on May 12, 2023 9:12:24 GMT
Thank you for showing this Tony and as Chris has already said I am a little unsure about what it is I am looking at and how that translates to the final sound within a system context . I am assuming because it is closer to the perfect real Square wave and the digital eye is wider and neater that cable B would be the option to choose . But then again I am not certain that this is correct . I am also going with the thing I have found to be consistently true that using an LPSU instead of of USB (and in every case SMPS) has a direct effect in a beneficial way on the LB clock and probably every other item in the digital chain . As you have done with the LB clock would you be able to to advise a sensible BNC cable 50 Ohm that would be best to use with the LB ?
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Post by misterc on May 12, 2023 9:34:01 GMT
Hi Chris
Its the age old question, does X difference as seen in the images above really equate to any possible differenices that can be possible resolved by our hearing?
You point on system depenacy is valid (to a point lol) I have tested this clock set up in modest systems from a dac<>power amp<> speakers that have a total value of £7K and with far more exotic systems well in excess if six figures, so far what I can say they all made a repeatable and audiable change to all these systems, whether that person preferred that sound after the clock changes were made is down to the individal, so Patato <> Patarto
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Post by bencat on May 12, 2023 12:38:03 GMT
Okay I have none of the instruments that Tony does and I would not be able to work then any way . But I do have two bnc 50 ohm cables to use with my LB clock . Inspired by what Tony has shown in measured difference I decided that I would a swap of the cables and see if their is any difference . Now I freely admit that when I bought and had delivered a hand made cable from Pickerings I expected that this would be accurate and just be better than the cheap £15 job I bought from gear shop . Well just swapped them over and see no the cheap cable is far and away the better cable in my system . More clarity better soundstage and more life . I might ask Tony if he would test bothc able when I send my Mutec for upgrade and see if perhaps I prefer the worst measuring cable or if the cheap actualy measures better as well . So even here there are differences .
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Post by misterc on May 12, 2023 13:23:03 GMT
Hello Andrew
No problem at all.
Just to offer further speculation Cable cost £185 per meter unterminated and is an more prefered T&E cable spec. Cable B is significantly more @ meter plus stainless crimped fancy RF BNC's its superb linearity and insertion loss caharactoristics make it a favourite amoung RF engineers who work under 20Ghz
Do I use any of these cables in my audio system, no I have tried them and they do have have a sound of their own, and its pleasing but not for moi.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 12, 2023 13:31:14 GMT
Hello Andrew No problem at all. Just to offer further speculation Cable cost £185 per meter unterminated and is an more rpefered T&E cable spec. Cable B is significantly more @ meter plus stainless crimped fancy RF BNC's its superb linearity and insertion loss cahractoristics make it a favourite amoung RF engineers who work under 20Ghz Do I use any of these cables in my audio system, no I have tried them and they do jhave have a sound of their own, and its pleasing but not for moi. What do you use T?
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Post by misterc on May 12, 2023 14:03:40 GMT
Hello Andrew No problem at all. Just to offer further speculation Cable cost £185 per meter unterminated and is an more rpefered T&E cable spec. Cable B is significantly more @ meter plus stainless crimped fancy RF BNC's its superb linearity and insertion loss cahractoristics make it a favourite amoung RF engineers who work under 20Ghz Do I use any of these cables in my audio system, no I have tried them and they do jhave have a sound of their own, and its pleasing but not for moi. What do you use T? Afternoon Oli
For once a simple question to answer
Coherent BDX (Bastard Dynamics Xtra) for all digital signal transfer in Mr.C home systems
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 12, 2023 14:04:32 GMT
Afternoon Oli
For once a simple question to answer
Coherent BDX (Bastard Dynamics Xtra) for all digital signal transfer in Mr.C home systems
Oh, a cheapie then 😂😂
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Post by misterc on May 12, 2023 14:14:10 GMT
I would suggest Oli it's relevent in relation to the rest of the system cheapie is an under used word, we could context it thus so:
Gus was a real cheapskate only using Avon ZZV7's on his Ferrari Californian instread of Mitchie Pilot sport 4's might as well use slidestones?
OR
What a cheapie boris was for buying us all aldi pick and mix for the theatre Royal said Clarrissa who also uttered the words 'Serial tightwad'
Just to put this into perspective Cable 'B' starts at £2400 a meter and rises to just over £15K for the full 56Ghz hairy chested stuff.
I have listened to a few systems where the digital cables are £200ish each and sound very nice indeed its a matter of context.
The cables I took to Jason's this week were from the starting point in our range of signal transfer devices the 4D
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on May 12, 2023 14:24:01 GMT
I would suggest Oli it's relevent in relation to the rest of the system cheapie is an under used word, we could context it thus so: Gus was a real cheapskate only using Avon ZZV7's on his Ferrari Californian instread of Mitchie Pilot sport 4's might as well use slidestones? OR What a cheapie boris was for buying us all pick and mix for the theatre Royal said Clarrisa who also uttered the words 'Serial tightwad' Just to put this into perspective Cable 'B' starts at £2400 a meter and rises to just opver £15K for the full 56Ghz hairy chested stuff. I have listened to a few systems where the digital cables are £200ish each and sound very nice indeed its a matter of context. The cables I took to Jason's this week were from the starting point in our range of signal transfer devices the 4D I know T, I'm only pulling your leg.
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Post by brucew268 on May 12, 2023 18:59:18 GMT
Afternoon Oli
For once a simple question to answer
Coherent BDX (Bastard Dynamics Xtra) for all digital signal transfer in Mr.C home systems
Ah, and what was cable A that we just might want to avoid?
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Post by misterc on May 13, 2023 10:22:04 GMT
Hi Bruce
That is an RG59/U with some quality crimped stainless terminations
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Post by misterc on May 17, 2023 15:05:58 GMT
This video I found on YT gives you a good idea of how cable relfections happen inside a transmission line and why impedance matching is important.
Its quite well explained witholut to much techno babble.
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Post by bencat on May 17, 2023 15:49:48 GMT
Thanks for that Tony watched right through and pretty much understood what was shown and explained . The kicker is always though while the reflections will exist what will we hear ? By the way that is just a comment not a statement . To my mind anything done to get that signal as clean as possible is likely to help the equipment and circuit it is feeding to work more efficiently and so sound closer to the original .
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Post by misterc on Jun 28, 2023 15:58:12 GMT
For once the M40 was being kind spent a interesting few hours with the main designers @ Leo Bodnar electronics today, Leo himself & Simon Unsworth, lot of ideas thrown about and discussed.
What I can say is this the firmware update for the GDPSO clock is around 6 weeks away.
I'm sorry to disappoint Oli but free samples weren't on the parting gifts tables as I left, maybe next time
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