Messing about with Digital signals

www.troelsgravesen.dk/EKTA-mkII.htm#MEASUREMENTS (scroll down slightly)

About 2.8-4ohms from 90-700Hz. Another dip below 4ohms at port tuning (high 30Hz)

Tony,

Thanks, very useful info.

The Neurochrome certainly sounds much better on the Ektas to me - bass is definitely not lacking. I believe @bigman80 has compared Nords/class D and 686 on Ektas?

Andrew: sorry the thread has drifted somewhat. Perhaps these 'amps for Ektas' posts could be moved Admin?

If you feel the 57's are comparible to the Ekta (in any way) after coming back from Steve's, and also not instantly reached down the back of the sofa to find all the spare change, it means something isn't quite at the point it should be.

Whether that be amplification, break in or positioning, who knows at this point, but i'd avoid comparisons using brand new speakers with minimal run in. If you fancy a ride down to the West Mids, let me know. I'll happily demo these Ekta to anyone.

Sorry Oli but we are all different and the way I found the Ektas to compare to Quad ESL 57 was in the treatment of vocals I know that Quads are very accurate in this regard and what you hear is a real and natural reflection of a voice on the recording . This is due to Quads having nearly zero latency due to having no real cabinet to colour or slow the sound . I thought very strongly that Ektas as I heard them were really excellent in this respect which is very rare for any boxed speaker.

I am clear though that Quads can not and will not compare in lots of other areas as I am not deaf to the problems and compromises that you have to accept with Quads . I will state at this stage quite clearly that at present and given the money involved I will not be changing my Quads . This is my compromise for the the sound and music I love to listen to which is very wide ranging . I do not expect anyone else to share or agree with my view , because they are not me and they do not have my ears . I have my current system set up after many years to suit me and only me . I am very happy for others to come and listen to it and hopefully enjoy some music that it plays but if they do not like it or find for them huge faults then I respect their view but it it is not really relevant . This is my system put together fro me to listen to my music and so long as it puts a smile on mu face and has me searching for the next track and wanting to hear it then my system works . Please accept because I know that things written can be taken different ways which would never be mistaken if I were speaking directly to someone I am not saying mines better than yours or doubting for an instant how different and great the Ektas sound at yours they will be great for you . But for me the cost is not something I am going to be able to afford unless the lottery win arrives . I would also extend an open invitation to you any time you might be around Liverpool to come and listen to my system not to compare to yours but just to listen to some music enjoy and have a chat . I am always open to what other people say about my system and it is often very revealing how they view it . End of the day though I have limited funds and my own personal goals which do not include something of the cost of Ektas , again this not anything against them or suggesting they are not a huge bargain compared to other high level speakers I just do not have that sort of disposable income any more .

As an aside I recently asked Jason about the possibility of him making me a pair of troelsen OBL-15 Open Baffle Speakers without crossovers so they could be made active . he has quoted me a very fair price but again it is just too much for me to be able to afford . In this case also as I would not be able to hear them before I ordered them it would be for me too much of a chance . Yes they might well be the best speakers i have ever heard and better than other models he has currently for sale but there is no surety that this will be the case .

bencat

I do share your assessment of the Quads, you know how you like your system to sound and if they fit in with that blueprint, they are the right speaker for you right now.

I especially admire your conclusions there because you clearly accept their limitations as 'reference' speakers, as you point out there is a lot they don't do (compared to 'conventional' designs). But what they do exceptionally well, you appreciate, and that's enough to keep hold of them if you haven't got wads of cash to experiment otherwise. Or even if you have, they make you happy so no huge desire to break away from a sound you've clearly worked hard to curate.

Just on Oli's couple of points above, no it is not the 'uncoloured/ultra transparency'’ etc etc thing, but there is something about how the midrange is portrayed by those panels (original Quad ones especially) that do voices, strings and woodwind more convincingly than almost anything I've still heard to date. For this they were better than my Martin Logans (although the Logans had a ton more low end).

My recent experience with the Vader's has shown me that conventional speakers with drivers can get to these same levels of midrange 'beauty' although I'd have to do a direct side-by-side comparison to say for sure. I'm basing that assessment on the fact I never felt the Vader's were lacking anything compared to any speaker I'd heard, including the 57's. I must also say I've never heard any drivers near the level of the ones in the Vader’s, so perhaps up to that point I'd assumed it wasn't possible without electrostats.

I think there are two ways of listening to the 57's. (I say 57's because having heard many others, the various other models of Quads don't do it quite as well).

Firstly is to hear their shortcomings, less than pristine top end (slight lack of sparkle, especially on older panels with older electronics), less than accurate instrument placement, staging etc, lack low end heft and bass impact.

The second is to get lost in the 'beauty' of the midrange whilst overlooking (overhearing?) their caveats above. It's not so much complete clarity I've come to realise, just pure realism. This seems to occur mostly in the frequencies from 200hz-4khz where all those special moments occur from voices to strings to woodwind. This seems to be the area where electrostats excel.

There is a special (realistic?) texture on instruments and voices provided by the 57's in my opinion, and once heard it can become highly addictive.

Above and below these frequencies’things can seem pretty ordinary most of the time, although satisfactory bass performance can certainly be achieved with the right positioning in the right room.

Enjoying your various findings Bencat, keep it up.

It's undoubtedly a bit of an acquired taste Tony, however I would speculate that perhaps by the time you heard a pair of 57's you'd already been exposed to some fairly 'high-end' speakers, perhaps raising your reference a little? Hence the disappointment?



Interestingly a pair of double stacked Quads did not do it for me, more bass yes, more dynamic yes, but they lost some soul, and that is what these speakers are about. Although this stacked pair were in too small a room no doubt, but I much preferred the cohesion of presentation and simplicity of a single pair.


EDIT - I will add to the above that I only really experienced the 'magic' sound of them on the end of a couple of valve amplifiers (with huge transformers). A 300B SET and a KT88 PP. Even with Quad amplifiers (303, 405, 606 etc) I found them flat, boring and uninvolving.

Apparently the Levinson ML2 with 25w Class A or a Nakamichi 420 or Musical Fidelity P170 would get them singing too but unfortunately I never got the chance to hear them with some very high quality Class A offerings . . . 

So, compromised, fussy about the room, fussy about amplification, specific genre favouring speakers that require the listener to sit in a very narrow sweet spot?

What's not to like!

She went the same way as those speakers would.

Once I'd seen the light mate.

It's nice that you're enjoying them. I'm genuinely pleased.

However, I have heard them (especially that pair) to know exactly what they can and can't do.

They don't do enough for me, but one man's rubbish is another man treasure ☺️

Ah, ok ..will be Interesting to see what happens when you try that pair.

If they don't stack up (pun intended) to the pair you have, I may have to revisit to refresh my opinion

Well finally picked up my NVA s300 amp yesterday too long a day so not installed yet taking things easy . Like the idiot I am have left my mobile at NVA which will not get back till next week . But now I am going to find out if I can get the music back to were it was or perhaps even better .

Okay now I have had time for my newly upgraded S300 NVA power amp to fully burn in and to ease it's influence on my system . What can I say when I asked Mark at NVA what the upgrade would bring his answer was the same sound but just more . Well he was not wrong NVA and ESL 57 were made for each other as these were the original speakers used when the design was first made . I confirm that NVA should be added to any list of amplifiers for driving Quads they just work and get out of the way of the music . What you get is real voices and real instruments and real people playing with each other . I listen to give spread of music and some has a great recorded sound , others have great music but a less than ideal recording quality with this set up now it just does not matter. Music just oozes out and presents itself in the room voices are sublime . All the things that I get told Quads will not do is there . Bass , volume rock , reggae ,dub ,soul anything is just sound live and enchanting . My friend Graham came over today and he has heard my system many times even be was shocked at how much more alive and musical it now sounds. So anyone finding themselves in the are is welcome to come and listen and hear if I have really created a system that works and sounds as good as I think it does . No under no circumstances is my system perfect it is as all systems are a compromise and this one is mine and suits my tastes . Others may well not be able to live with my choices but it is always great to get alternative views .