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Post by mrian on Sept 3, 2022 19:50:18 GMT
At present i am running an smsl m400 into a graaf 13.5bii into a neurochrome via a KlarkTeknik dn410, with a pair of impulse h2 and rel strata 3 at the loud end.
My latest brainwave is to dump all the electronics and buy a lyngdorf integrated instead.
Have i gone mad or is this an inspired move?
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Post by jandl100 on Sept 4, 2022 2:06:23 GMT
Have an extended listen.
Personally I've found Lyngdorf class D amps a bit boring.
Initially very appealing but the yawns set in and my attention wanders after a while.
YMMV.
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Post by antonio on Sept 4, 2022 5:12:03 GMT
It could be an inspired move if you enjoy the Lyngdorf, you're certainly not mad in thinking it might be worth a try.
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Post by stevew on Sept 4, 2022 16:19:19 GMT
I had a Lyngdorf tdai 2200 for many years. It was particularly good in our small sitting room where I had no choice but to locate small speakers hard up against a wall either side of a deep chimney breast. Room Perfect made it work very well.
However when I relocated the amp to my basement room I found that room perfect didn’t make the same kind of impact. Not forgetting this is now 20 year old technology.. the newer stuff may be totally different.
What I did find was that the power section of this amp could be improved on tremendously (Apart champ 1).
Then when Oli loaned me the BT2 prototype it was game over.
So.. I’d say for sure audition with care. They are not cheap bits of kit. I understand that the streaming module is common to models. I have no doubt they remain high quality bits of kit..
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dt79
Junior Member
Posts: 343
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Post by dt79 on Sept 4, 2022 16:54:51 GMT
I can recommend the Lyngdorfs. Got a TDAI-3400 and had the 2170 before that. Amazing bits of kit, especially the 3400. In my experience they really give the impression of being completely transparent and doing absolutely nothing to the sound except making it louder. Room Perfect is also a complete game changer in terms of getting the most out of your speakers in your room - even better if you want to add subs.
Several of the dealers will do a home trial, so very easy to try without risk.
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Post by antonio on Sept 4, 2022 17:21:56 GMT
I had a Lyngdorf tdai 2200 for many years. It was particularly good in our small sitting room where I had no choice but to locate small speakers hard up against a wall either side of a deep chimney breast. Room Perfect made it work very well. However when I relocated the amp to my basement room I found that room perfect didn’t make the same kind of impact. Not forgetting this is now 20 year old technology.. the newer stuff may be totally different. What I did find was that the power section of this amp could be improved on tremendously (Apart champ 1). Then when Oli loaned me the BT2 prototype it was game over. So.. I’d say for sure audition with care. They are not cheap bits of kit. I understand that the streaming module is common to models. I have no doubt they remain high quality bits of kit.. I had not realised you had changed from your Lyngdorf, quite surprised since I thought you were quite the fan. |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,398
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 4, 2022 18:00:51 GMT
I will never understand why anyone would want to insert a ADC to DAC into their signal chain on purpose, and that's what "room prefect" basically employs to do it's thing. Are you having issues with the sound? What has sent you off on this train of thought?
For me, the idea of dumping the 686 for a Lyngdorf is totally abhorrent. Yes, i am a total Neurochrome fanboy, but there is a very good reason for that.
EDIT: I have just had a look at the Graaf 13.5bii. I will await your response before proffering an alternative solution to binning the 686.
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Post by misterc on Sept 4, 2022 18:07:17 GMT
At present i am running an smsl m400 into a graaf 13.5bii into a neurochrome via a KlarkTeknik dn410, with a pair of impulse h2 and rel strata 3 at the loud end. My latest brainwave is to dump all the electronics and buy a lyngdorf integrated instead. Have i gone mad or is this an inspired move? Like DCS Bartok's Vanilla is word, imho the adc and dac section of the 2200 are the weak points.
Now if they were running dual 32bit ADC's with a matching dac section tht could play music then maybe you might feel different. A nice looking door stop imho
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Post by macca on Sept 5, 2022 12:49:47 GMT
I will never understand why anyone would want to insert a ADC to DAC into their signal chain on purpose, and that's what "room prefect" basically employs to do it's thing. Are you having issues with the sound? What has sent you off on this train of thought? For me, the idea of dumping the 686 for a Lyngdorf is totally abhorrent. Yes, i am a total Neurochrome fanboy, but there is a very good reason for that. EDIT: I have just had a look at the Graaf 13.5bii. I will await your response before proffering an alternative solution to binning the 686. The AD to DA will be totally inaudible. One thing everyone seems to forget with digital room correction is how much improvement it makes is entirely dependant on how bad the acoustics of the room are to begin with. One man's 'Game changer' will be another's 'Slight improvement' or even a 'Not really worth the bother.' You only got to look at people's system pics to see how many bad rooms are out there. No carpet, no curtains, hardly any furniture, no shelves of books and records, just four blank empty walls. Not surprising room correction is a revelation in SQ for a lot of people. |
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Post by stevew on Sept 5, 2022 13:12:36 GMT
I will never understand why anyone would want to insert a ADC to DAC into their signal chain on purpose, and that's what "room prefect" basically employs to do it's thing. Are you having issues with the sound? What has sent you off on this train of thought? For me, the idea of dumping the 686 for a Lyngdorf is totally abhorrent. Yes, i am a total Neurochrome fanboy, but there is a very good reason for that. EDIT: I have just had a look at the Graaf 13.5bii. I will await your response before proffering an alternative solution to binning the 686. The AD to DA will be totally inaudible. One thing everyone seems to forget with digital room correction is how much improvement it makes is entirely dependant on how bad the acoustics of the room are to begin with. One man's 'Game changer' will be another's 'Slight improvement' or even a 'Not really worth the bother.' You only got to look at people's system pics to see how many bad rooms are out there. No carpet, no curtains, hardly any furniture, no shelves of books and records, just four blank empty walls. Not surprising room correction is a revelation in SQ for a lot of people. My post covid temperature is worse than I thought.. I’m in agreement with Macca. Not only does room perfect respond differently to different rooms, there are some things it just either won’t sort or address. |
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
The HiFi Bear/Audioaddicts/Bigbottle Owner
Posts: 16,398
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Post by Bigman80 on Sept 5, 2022 13:36:28 GMT
I don't agree that the AD to DA is inaudible.
I agree that the room itself will dictate the effectiveness of the software, and in some rooms the benefit may be worth the down side of the conversion IMO.
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Post by macca on Sept 5, 2022 14:54:15 GMT
I don't agree that the AD to DA is inaudible. I agree that the room itself will dictate the effectiveness of the software, and in some rooms the benefit may be worth the down side of the conversion IMO. All those MoFi punters couldn't spot it though. Until they were told it was there. Now they're suing. Ivor Tiefenbrum couldn't spot it either even though before the experiment he was pretty confident that he could. And that was thirty odd years back so the AD/DA loop was not as quiet as they are today. I know you tried some digital phono stages and didn't rate them but I think the reason you did not rate them was nothing to do with the AD/DA loop. Lots of ways to get a phono stage to sound poor or average as you know. |
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Post by sq225917 on Sept 5, 2022 18:27:04 GMT
32 bit a/d, lol. Maybe the math is, does any a/d manage more than 19 bits in reality from input to output?
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dt79
Junior Member
Posts: 343
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Post by dt79 on Sept 6, 2022 7:29:32 GMT
All any of us ever hear is the combination of our speakers and the room they’re in. If that works well and you like the end result then great, don’t mess with it, but a lot of people struggle to get the best out of their speakers because of listening environment constraints and for those people, like me, Room Perfect can be a revelation. It you look on the various Lyngdorf related threads on AV Forums the conversion rate of home trials to sales of Lyngdorf amps must rival anything in the industry. Seriously it’s got to be 90%+
The idea of taking our analogue signals and converting them to digital seems objectionable in principle, but I would contend that no one could tell the difference and it is worth it, for what it enables. But there’s no need to leave that to chance. Anyone who thinks Lyngdorf/RP might work for them can get a free home trial and the first thing you can do is set the amp up to pass through a signal to its line-out with no room correction or anything else, plug it in-line in your current system and see whether you can hear any detriment. That’s actually slightly unfair on the Lyngdorf because in normal use the signal would never go back through the DAC (if you don't understand that statement then read up on how Lyngdorf amps work, it’s technically very interesting).
The TDAI-3400 is a beast of an amp as well - 200W into 8ohms, 400 into 4. It’ll drive anything. I’m sure any accusation that it sounds boring is because it doesn’t have any character of its own, which is surely a good thing.
Anyway, my 2 cents as a happy owner!
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Post by macca on Sept 6, 2022 10:38:02 GMT
32 bit a/d, lol. Maybe the math is, does any a/d manage more than 19 bits in reality from input to output? Aren't you down into the thermal noise at 21 bits anyway? I remember the shock when the analogue purity brigade with their mega money Naim tuners discovered that the BBC radio 3 FM broadcasts they rated as their benchmark for sound quality had been running through a 13 bit digital loop since the 1970s... |
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Post by hifinutt on Sept 9, 2022 16:20:03 GMT
much as i love class D , i have tried a good many class D with my impulse Taus and i cant get them to work really to my liking !!!
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Post by mrian on Sept 9, 2022 16:33:00 GMT
much as i love class D , i have tried a good many class D with my impulse Taus and i cant get them to work really to my liking !!! I really liked the nord amps with the H2s the only amp i really struggled with was the chord spm1200 |
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Post by mrian on Sept 9, 2022 16:34:43 GMT
And the stereo 20
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Post by hifinutt on Sept 10, 2022 2:13:24 GMT
yes Class D does it a very live sound to the impulse but gets a bit wearing . so far after trying well over 50 amp combo`s the best has been hybrid valve like firebottle and silbatone , class AB like arcam , moonriver and norma .
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