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Post by peterthebutcher on Jul 14, 2022 9:12:44 GMT
After much head scratching, and talking with the "other half" (yes I do consult her). I have decided due to personal reasons, that a new pair of speakers will not be coming, instead have have decided a new Rel S8/12 is the more prudent route to take.
When I had a stereo power amp, I ran the sub via the High Level input, as recommended by chats with Rel, however since I went down the mono bloc avenue, I was advised to avoid any problems, to use the Low Level inputs, but that has made an inferior sound, so another sub of the same will mean I can go back to the better High Level Neuritic connections, with 1 sub per power amp
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Arke
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Post by Arke on Jul 14, 2022 10:03:33 GMT
After much head scratching, and talking with the "other half" (yes I do consult her). I have decided due to personal reasons, that a new pair of speakers will not be coming, instead have have decided a new Rel S8/12 is the more prudent route to take. When I had a stereo power amp, I ran the sub via the High Level input, as recommended by chats with Rel, however since I went down the mono bloc avenue, I was advised to avoid any problems, to use the Low Level inputs, but that has made an inferior sound, so another sub of the same will mean I can go back to the better High Level Neuritic connections, with 1 sub per power amp Do REL advise against taking additive signals (to high level input) from both speakers when using mono bloc amplifiers? |
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Post by nonuffin on Jul 14, 2022 10:37:59 GMT
After much head scratching, and talking with the "other half" (yes I do consult her). I have decided due to personal reasons, that a new pair of speakers will not be coming, instead have have decided a new Rel S8/12 is the more prudent route to take. When I had a stereo power amp, I ran the sub via the High Level input, as recommended by chats with Rel, however since I went down the mono bloc avenue, I was advised to avoid any problems, to use the Low Level inputs, but that has made an inferior sound, so another sub of the same will mean I can go back to the better High Level Neuritic connections, with 1 sub per power amp Do REL advise against taking additive signals (to high level input) from both speakers when using mono bloc amplifiers? I believe he will be using one sub per amplifier so that should not be an issue |
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Arke
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Post by Arke on Jul 14, 2022 12:25:16 GMT
Do REL advise against taking additive signals (to high level input) from both speakers when using mono bloc amplifiers? I believe he will be using one sub per amplifier so that should not be an issue I was more curious why it was a problem with one sub and a pair of mono blocs. I was trying to understand how 2 monoblocs is incompatible with one sub and hi level inputs |
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Post by hifinutt on Jul 14, 2022 15:48:20 GMT
congrats on keeping the amphions , i am sure you can find ways to improve them
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Post by peterthebutcher on Jul 14, 2022 16:37:23 GMT
Well looking at it sensibly, it would have taken a LOT more dosh to improve on them TBH, now if I want to I can make improvements using some Gaia isolation as a mate uses them, and had them on his Amphions 3LS (before going with his ATC's or something like (use Soundcare Superspikes at the moment). My other half has said it would be more fiscal sense in spending £2.5K (my dealers price) than £4K +, on second hand speakers, even if they had new innards, (as why would a speaker need new drivers if made in 2019, hmmmmm)
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Post by peterthebutcher on Jul 14, 2022 16:41:20 GMT
I believe he will be using one sub per amplifier so that should not be an issue I was more curious why it was a problem with one sub and a pair of mono blocs. I was trying to understand how 2 monoblocs is incompatible with one sub and hi level inputs I was warned of a few people that connecting a single sub to a pair of amps MAY cause damage, and as the sub was not a cheap one for me, decided to play it safe. I got conflicting views when asking on the PS forum |
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Arke
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Post by Arke on Jul 14, 2022 17:28:02 GMT
I was more curious why it was a problem with one sub and a pair of mono blocs. I was trying to understand how 2 monoblocs is incompatible with one sub and hi level inputs I was warned of a few people that connecting a single sub to a pair of amps MAY cause damage, and as the sub was not a cheap one for me, decided to play it safe. I got conflicting views when asking on the PS forum Probably better to be on the Safe side. I wonder what REL advise? I have a full dual mono power amp and one sub and seems fine. Which speakers do you have? |
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Post by Pigmy Pony on Jul 14, 2022 17:55:31 GMT
I was warned of a few people that connecting a single sub to a pair of amps MAY cause damage, and as the sub was not a cheap one for me, decided to play it safe. I got conflicting views when asking on the PS forum Probably better to be on the Safe side. I wonder what REL advise? I have a full dual mono power amp and one sub and seems fine. Which speakers do you have? Yes but your amp will still output to the speakers the same way as any other stereo amp. I can't remember how it is colour-wise, but with high level you'll have one wire going to left +, one going to right +, and the third going to one of the negative (-) speaker outs. Something like that. |
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Arke
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Post by Arke on Jul 14, 2022 18:57:58 GMT
Probably better to be on the Safe side. I wonder what REL advise? I have a full dual mono power amp and one sub and seems fine. Which speakers do you have? Yes but your amp will still output to the speakers the same way as any other stereo amp. I can't remember how it is colour-wise, but with high level you'll have one wire going to left +, one going to right +, and the third going to one of the negative (-) speaker outs. Something like that. I take the high level feed direct from my speaker terminals - my hypex plate amp takes +ve and -ve from both L and R speakers. Just wondering why it's not OK from mono blocs. Only curious, as it could be relevant to me one day. |
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Post by Pigmy Pony on Jul 14, 2022 19:29:44 GMT
Yes but your amp will still output to the speakers the same way as any other stereo amp. I can't remember how it is colour-wise, but with high level you'll have one wire going to left +, one going to right +, and the third going to one of the negative (-) speaker outs. Something like that. I take the high level feed direct from my speaker terminals - my hypex plate amp takes +ve and -ve from both L and R speakers. Just wondering why it's not OK from mono blocs. Only curious, as it could be relevant to me one day. Yes, after I posted I had a bit more of a think, and I can't think why it might be different for mono blocks. I used to run my BK sub from some Celestion 5 speakers, coming from an Amptastic Mini-1, then after a few months of that I was told it was bad for the amp. 5 years on nothing has blown up. Though these days that little amp is on 24/7 for my Echo Dot. "Alexa, what's the weather like tomorrow in Chorley?" She says it'll be clouds and showers  I don't know, sometimes I just plug stuff in and hope for the best |
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Post by Arke on Jul 15, 2022 6:27:38 GMT
I was more curious why it was a problem with one sub and a pair of mono blocs. I was trying to understand how 2 monoblocs is incompatible with one sub and hi level inputs I was warned of a few people that connecting a single sub to a pair of amps MAY cause damage, and as the sub was not a cheap one for me, decided to play it safe. I got conflicting views when asking on the PS forum What you heard seems to be backed up on the REL help desk: relsupport.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/115004649108-Monoblocks-1-REL-Connection-MethodThey do advise against high level. No technical explanation though. Two subs will be pretty awesome though! Especially when both are high level inputs. I demoed my sub to a sceptical friend last night. He was amazed by the vast improvement in soundstage and improvement in midrange and treble. He has asked me to make him one! 😀 |
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Post by firebottle on Jul 15, 2022 6:54:43 GMT
The caution stated with monoblocks is a catch all. I think it is in case the speaker outputs are bridge tied load, meaning both terminals are driven, one positive whilst the other goes negative.
This is common with class D amps.
High level connection can be made but the 'negative' for the sub input must be from the ground/common on the amplifier.
This will usually be the ground of the input socket.
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optical
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Post by optical on Jul 15, 2022 7:38:56 GMT
The caution stated with monoblocks is a catch all. I think it is in case the speaker outputs are bridge tied load, meaning both terminals are driven, one positive whilst the other goes negative. This is common with class D amps. High level connection can be made but the 'negative' for the sub input must be from the ground/common on the amplifier. This will usually be the ground of the input socket. Hi Alan, indeed if you remember this was the problem with me running dual sub's directly from the 686 output terminals (no problem running 'low level' RCA input from the preamp though) but it's got me thinking after the power supply upgrades is the amp still bridge tied? Re the original post, my amp shut down after a second or so for the reasons Alan outlined when running dual subs. I too noticed a step down in quality going from the high level (neutrik) connection (on other amps) to the low level RCA inputs so I'd be interested in trying them again iof it's now possible. |
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Post by peterthebutcher on Jul 15, 2022 11:06:18 GMT
The caution stated with monoblocks is a catch all. I think it is in case the speaker outputs are bridge tied load, meaning both terminals are driven, one positive whilst the other goes negative. This is common with class D amps. High level connection can be made but the 'negative' for the sub input must be from the ground/common on the amplifier. This will usually be the ground of the input socket. Hi Alan, indeed if you remember this was the problem with me running dual sub's directly from the 686 output terminals (no problem running 'low level' RCA input from the preamp though) but it's got me thinking after the power supply upgrades is the amp still bridge tied? Re the original post, my amp shut down after a second or so for the reasons Alan outlined when running dual subs. I too noticed a step down in quality going from the high level (neutrik) connection (on other amps) to the low level RCA inputs so I'd be interested in trying them again iof it's now possible. There has been a noticeable difference in the sound, going from HL to LL, so much so all my settings on the Gain and X over dials are way different to when they were initially set up. I know it may not be a big deal, but its very noticeable and annoying at the same time to me, and if it means investing a lot more to go back to the way things were, then so be it. Plus get a more even bass in the room  and bragging rights at the pub  |
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Post by firebottle on Jul 15, 2022 16:44:24 GMT
Your 686 is still bridge tied, the main board is the same no matter how it is powered.
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Post by peterthebutcher on Aug 9, 2022 15:54:13 GMT
New Rel sub is finally on ts way, and at last can get back to running High Level with my PS Class D (M700) amps
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and bragging rights at the pub 