Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 23, 2018 10:14:49 GMT
5-6 years is about my longest with a product, although I have spent longer with some thjingsnif you count getting them back again. Here’s the ones I remember, not counting return visits.
Spicas 6 years
LP12/Ekos 5 years
Xerxes 5 years
Kans 5 years
SBLs 5 years
Elas 5 years
Rock 3 years
ES14 3 years
Exposure 3/4 4 years
Myst Tma3 3 years
Lots of stuff has stayed 1-2 years, lots has lasted far less long. Spicas are looking good to be with me for the foreseeable.
What about you. Anyone had something for decades?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 10:34:08 GMT
Yes. I have an AR turntable I've owned since 1982, a Michell Iso I've owned since 1992, and Exposure pre/power amps I've owned since 1998. Other stuff has been and gone; the average is about seven years for things I've 'moved on'.
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Bigman80
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AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 23, 2018 11:00:34 GMT
Yes. I have an AR turntable I've owned since 1982, a Michell Iso I've owned since 1992, and Exposure pre/power amps I've owned since 1998. Other stuff has been and gone; the average is about seven years for things I've 'moved on'. Can’t fault your taste. The Iso is a forgotten gem and a silly bargain, I haven’t got a bad word to say about Exposure. I’ve never had an AR turntable but I remember seeing them in the flesh and puzzling over how they could look so well made and not be a patch on an LP12. It never crossed my mind that reviewers could speak anythjng other than gospel  |
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Post by antonio on Jul 23, 2018 11:20:27 GMT
LP12 - 29 years
Epos ES14's - 15 years
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Post by dsjr on Jul 23, 2018 12:31:30 GMT
Yes. I have an AR turntable I've owned since 1982, a Michell Iso I've owned since 1992, and Exposure pre/power amps I've owned since 1998. Other stuff has been and gone; the average is about seven years for things I've 'moved on'. Can’t fault your taste. The Iso is a forgotten gem and a silly bargain, I haven’t got a bad word to say about Exposure. I’ve never had an AR turntable but I remember seeing them in the flesh and puzzling over how they could look so well made and not be a patch on an LP12. It never crossed my mind that reviewers could speak anythjng other than gospel The AR XB77 and (sorry!) The Turntable from the early 80's weren't so good sounding to me, the first as it was sloppy all over with a flexible headshell I remember and both had very sloppy main bearings which killed them in my opinion (a more viscous oil may sort it though). The later 'Legend' model had a properly toleranced main bearing and these were excellent, if too late for us to sell them. Compared to the Manticore Mantra and Systemdek IIX900, the Legend had a lightness of touch and some delicacy too depending on arm fitted. By then, the LP12 was in full fruitbox mode and if the latter was preferred, the likes of the legend deck were lost on those dealers.
The longest standing parts of my current stuff are the Micro Seiki CD-M2 CD player, which I've owned and used since 1994 and the Dual 701 which I bought in 1988 when it was around fifteen years old... Many of my gash cartridge stash dates from the 70's...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 13:41:04 GMT
Grado SR80- 2011-2016
TDL Studio 0.75M- 2008- 2010
Rotel RCD-1070- 2009- 2011
Roksan Kandy KA-1 III- 2005-2008
Sennheiser HD600- 2011-2017
JPW Mini Monitor- 2013-2016
JPW ML110i- 2014-2017
S.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 13:59:24 GMT
LP12 - 29 years Epos ES14's - 15 years wow nice one ant i never owned the es14's meself..came close twice to buying some..the demoes i had never convinced me.  |
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Post by antonio on Jul 23, 2018 14:25:08 GMT
It took a pair of Shahinian Obelisks to oust them Rudi. They showed the improvements every time I upgraded any item of my system.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 15:25:55 GMT
westie.
what exact spec lp12 did you have dude.
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Bigman80
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AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 23, 2018 16:57:10 GMT
Mine was pre Cirkus. 1987 spec with Valhalla. I demoed a cirkus and lingo model but didn’t like what it did. Later on I had a few more LP12s and got on best with a Hercules powered 1989 deck. Ekos was the best arm by farmer me although I never got to try an Aro or any other unipivot. I built up a few decks from spare parts and tried an Axis outer platter for a laugh whilst I waited for an lP12 one to pop up. To my amazement, Imthought the lighter Axis platter sounded much, much better.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 17:05:56 GMT
i knew years ago the lp12 subchassis was shite...i kept telling em on wam back in 2005..non would have it..baked bean thin steel with a glorified paper arm board...soon as i see that on my first lp12 i knew it would not deliever the goods..then voila the keel..
i knew long before everyone else that the lp12 was no good...
biggest over hyped up bit of kit in history
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Post by dsjr on Jul 23, 2018 18:39:31 GMT
No it effin wasn't!!!!! My take below -
Go back to the mid 70's, when HiFi systems were wired with crap copper cables, Sh#t high capacitance interconnects and bell wire for speakers, ok? the speakers then were larger, plonked on the floor quite often and the Jap direct drives which became fashionable fed back badly at all volume levels. A good musical sound was beyond many of the vinyl based systems in the UK and at KJ, we relied on master tape copies to do decent dems with 'cos records sounded shite most of the time! Ivor, using fair means or foul, appropriated the Ariston RD11 design, did a few minor tweaks inside and out and l and behold the LP12 was born. AT THE TIME, it made records sound clearer and more involving than say, a Technics, the earliest SL110's and 1200mk1's having to be suspended on strings from the roof to test rumble figures as their isolation was such Sh#t! I replaced my SL110/SME (I never really bonded with the SME and this one had been bodged, so not a proper one) with a 1996 LP12/G707 and loved it! The Lp12 was being talked about before Naim piggy-backed their way to the success story too, but before too long, the terrible twosome were all but inseparable I remember.
What effed the LP12 and turned it into the fruitbox 'we' love to take the piss out of was the Ittok arm, which over loaded the chassis and arm board something chronic I now realise. The bullshit really started then (and I was guilty of it too) and the sound was bloated and bass heavy in comparison with the surviving master tapes we still had... It's taken decades of poncing around and a shedload of me-too parts from third parties (tangerine Audio for example) to even begin to get the effing thing to sound right 0 and Linn had their record label and top recorded masters with which to compare - they knew how bad it was in the mid 80's alright and they showed me as I reported in an earlier essay-post... It's better now than it was thirty years ago but the prices today are ridiculous in my opinion. Dealer margins have increased a lot as well, so the end user has a double whammy on price paid.
Apologies, but the whole LP12 bullshine is a very long and convoluted tale going back to 1972 or so when the RD11 first appeared. Much Sh#t under the bridge to the cess pit too, but there were some good things as well. By the mid 80's, we had better supports and stuff for turntables, gear and speakers and people were bringing in their Technics and similar decks for new styli and cartridges and so on. A fellow setter upper in the London store was as surprised as me how good these decks sounded given half a chance but by then it was too late and CD was coming on leaps and bounds...
Sorry for the rant, but the story as I experienced it needed to be recounted..
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Bigman80
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AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,152
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 23, 2018 19:39:44 GMT
I’ve said it before but I think the Linn/Naim saga gets over-simplified. To me it wasn’t all good and it certainly wasn’t all bad either. The pendulum has swung from them doing no wrong to doing no right. If that was the case, they wouldn’t have sold so well on dem.
I don’t personally tend to like suspended decks compared to alternatives. I also think there have been better designs and materials as time has gone on but I cannot deny the great sounds I’ve heard from LP12s on occasions.
That said, I do agree with Rudi that the subchassis and armboard were always ripe for improvement. The sub chassis warped at times and the joint between the two wasn’t exactly mechanically robust (although I believe Dave has said previously that other arrangements sounded worse). I also hated the loony setup from underneath idea, but to change it root and branch would’ve meant it wasn’t an LP12 anymore.
As a used deck for a few hundred quid, it’s still a great buy though. It will last a lifetime, appreciate in value Andy have enough spares to keep,it going for a few hundred years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2018 21:03:53 GMT
I bought my Meridian 507 CD player new in 2003 and still use it (amongst others). I've had my valve monoblocks about as long too.
And, in my ADC cartridge collection, I have a 10E Mk.IV that I've owned since the seventies. Owned my Mission 774 arm (one of three) since then too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2018 2:41:34 GMT
No it effin wasn't!!!!! My take below - Go back to the mid 70's, when HiFi systems were wired with crap copper cables, Sh#t high capacitance interconnects and bell wire for speakers, ok? the speakers then were larger, plonked on the floor quite often and the Jap direct drives which became fashionable fed back badly at all volume levels. A good musical sound was beyond many of the vinyl based systems in the UK and at KJ, we relied on master tape copies to do decent dems with 'cos records sounded shite most of the time! Ivor, using fair means or foul, appropriated the Ariston RD11 design, did a few minor tweaks inside and out and l and behold the LP12 was born. AT THE TIME, it made records sound clearer and more involving than say, a Technics, the earliest SL110's and 1200mk1's having to be suspended on strings from the roof to test rumble figures as their isolation was such Sh#t! I replaced my SL110/SME (I never really bonded with the SME and this one had been bodged, so not a proper one) with a 1996 LP12/G707 and loved it! The Lp12 was being talked about before Naim piggy-backed their way to the success story too, but before too long, the terrible twosome were all but inseparable I remember. What effed the LP12 and turned it into the fruitbox 'we' love to take the piss out of was the Ittok arm, which over loaded the chassis and arm board something chronic I now realise. The bullshit really started then (and I was guilty of it too) and the sound was bloated and bass heavy in comparison with the surviving master tapes we still had... It's taken decades of poncing around and a shedload of me-too parts from third parties (tangerine Audio for example) to even begin to get the effing thing to sound right 0 and Linn had their record label and top recorded masters with which to compare - they knew how bad it was in the mid 80's alright and they showed me as I reported in an earlier essay-post... It's better now than it was thirty years ago but the prices today are ridiculous in my opinion. Dealer margins have increased a lot as well, so the end user has a double whammy on price paid. Apologies, but the whole LP12 bullshine is a very long and convoluted tale going back to 1972 or so when the RD11 first appeared. Much Sh#t under the bridge to the cess pit too, but there were some good things as well. By the mid 80's, we had better supports and stuff for turntables, gear and speakers and people were bringing in their Technics and similar decks for new styli and cartridges and so on. A fellow setter upper in the London store was as surprised as me how good these decks sounded given half a chance but by then it was too late and CD was coming on leaps and bounds... Sorry for the rant, but the story as I experienced it needed to be recounted.. no problems..i would trust your opinion over mine..you're knowledge of hifi is the best i have ever seen.. |
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Post by antonio on Jul 24, 2018 5:06:21 GMT
My LP12 was purchased in 1986 and upgraded it to the following spec:
Circus sub
Ekos
Lingo mk 1
Tiger Paw top plate (purchased to see if it would revitalise my vinyl interest)
This was sold, it wasn't really used for 10 years, and a PTtoo with Rega 250 was purchased to be able to play my existing vinyl. My Lyra was simply transferred over. For me the PT does everything the Linn was supposed to do, leading me to upgrade my phono.
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Post by dsjr on Jul 24, 2018 7:52:30 GMT
All my Sh#t brain can remember - HiFi stories. Don't know why I defend the old fruit-box, but it was a big part of my working life for many years and I did me best with it...
PT's are dangerously frail as i remember, but they did sound better in terms of closer to the original rather than *just* making for a musical sound...
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Post by antonio on Jul 24, 2018 8:09:24 GMT
I'm sorry Dave, the PT is more involving and makes your 'toes tap'. I believe it to be the bass that lets the Linn down, maybe a better sub chassis would have helped, but you're still looking at £700 for a 3rd party one. I purchased the PT for £450 and sent the arm to j7, another £150. There was an Amazon 1, with Moerch 6 arm that went for £970 on ebay, should have put in a bid, was out at the time the bidding ended, absolute bloody bargain.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2018 8:13:13 GMT
morning lads.
what you think of the roksan xerxes dsjr?
mine had that dreaded armboard warp.
i bought one because i heard it back to back at doug bradeys in convent garden with a top spec lp12..xerxes destroyed it..circa 1989 i think
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Post by dsjr on Jul 24, 2018 8:14:01 GMT
I'm not criticising the sonics of a PT, but build wasn't hot and with clumsy oafs like me, could fall apart all too easily. The current Funk stuff is exactly the same imo...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2018 8:17:14 GMT
always wanted a rock aswell..loved that trough idea..
never owned one though..
deck i always remeber fondly was my systemdek 11x i think it was..circa 1990..awesome deck for peanuts..decks back then were fairly cheap..new lp12 for 500 quid..wtf has happened today with 4k plus for a deck?
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Post by dsjr on Jul 24, 2018 9:30:10 GMT
always wanted a rock aswell..loved that trough idea.. never owned one though.. deck i always remeber fondly was my systemdek 11x i think it was..circa 1990..awesome deck for peanuts..decks back then were fairly cheap..new lp12 for 500 quid..wtf has happened today with 4k plus for a deck? Volume of sales has dropped and bosses still wanting their pension pots nice and full? |
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Post by dsjr on Jul 24, 2018 9:37:09 GMT
morning lads. what you think of the roksan xerxes dsjr? mine had that dreaded armboard warp. i bought one because i heard it back to back at doug bradeys in convent garden with a top spec lp12..xerxes destroyed it..circa 1989 i think We never sold them, but pal Jimmy Hughes had a lovely one with Breuer arm and Arta-Xerxes built in phono stage. In his gaff, excellent I have to say. Years later, I met Touraj at a show and he offered me a free traded-in Xerxes if I called into the factory. Stupid idiot I was, I didn't, so chance was gone 
I always wondered if a rubbery cushion (with metal re-enforcement plate) under the sagging corner might have fixed it with no sonic issues?
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Bigman80
Grandmaster
AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,152
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 24, 2018 13:30:15 GMT
morning lads. what you think of the roksan xerxes dsjr? mine had that dreaded armboard warp. i bought one because i heard it back to back at doug bradeys in convent garden with a top spec lp12..xerxes destroyed it..circa 1989 i think We never sold them, but pal Jimmy Hughes had a lovely one with Breuer arm and Arta-Xerxes built in phono stage. In his gaff, excellent I have to say. Years later, I met Touraj at a show and he offered me a free traded-in Xerxes if I called into the factory. Stupid idiot I was, I didn't, so chance was gone I always wondered if a rubbery cushion (with metal re-enforcement plate) under the sagging corner might have fixed it with no sonic issues?
Still my favourite deck. Chews up sand spits out any LP12 I’ve heard. I loved the Xerxes from the first few seconds of hearing it. I’ve had a few of the, and used a load of different arms. It’s been stellar every time. |
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Post by dsjr on Jul 24, 2018 14:03:46 GMT
It wasn't 'that' good in the company of a properly set up LP12. Oh hang on, proper Lp12's only lived in Salisbury, London and surrounding area and got worse the further north and away from Naim you were - cough -  I remember the LP12 as being slightly fuller-bodied than the Roksan, but the Roksan was sometimes 'hashier' I remember unless you fitted a Rega or similar arm to it. I heard Jimmy's Breuer on both decks and I think it spoiled both in terms of ease of getting a great sound - low total mass and pretty inert with it (not 'damped' sonically like an RB300 was if you got it wrong). In recent times, Jimmy was pictured using a Thorens top model? Mind you, we never had a Xerxes in the shop for a long period to really get to know it... the London Sound Organisation had both though, but I suspect theirs had an Ittok on it, so maybe not the best match here... |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2018 14:52:16 GMT
I auditioned a Xerxes against an LP12 in the Sound Organisation at London Bridge in 1986, and greatly preferred (and bought) the Xerxes. The Xerxes had an RB300 arm on it; can't remember what arm was on the LP12. I traded that in the Xerxes against a Xerxes X in about 2001, and still use it, with a Rega RB600 arm and a VdH Frog Gold cartridge. (I briefly had a Pink Triangle on loan, and didn't like it at all.)
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Bigman80
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AA Founding Member & Bigbottle Audio Creator
Posts: 16,152
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 24, 2018 15:25:27 GMT
I auditioned a Xerxes against an LP12 in the Sound Organisation at London Bridge in 1986, and greatly preferred (and bought) the Xerxes. The Xerxes had an RB300 arm on it; can't remember what arm was on the LP12. I traded that in the Xerxes against a Xerxes X in about 2001, and still use it, with a Rega RB600 arm and a VdH Frog Gold cartridge. (I briefly had a Pink Triangle on loan, and didn't like it at all.) I’d love a TMS or Xerxes 20 one day. I can’t get on with Pinks either. Bass quality is just wrong to my ears and the music is too “edgy”. Just not enjoyable. I’ve had a PT1, Export and LPt. All fails for me. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2018 15:26:09 GMT
Years ago, a good mate had an LP12 with a Zeta arm on and a Koetsu Red. It sounded nice enough, but I can't say I was hugely struck. He then changed to a Xerxes with same arm and cart. That blew the Linn into the weeds. The whole sound snapped into focus and developed great vitality.
All items were purchased new from The Cornflake Shop and carefully set up in his home by them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2018 15:45:39 GMT
My Rothwell Indus passive pre is probably my longest surviving item of hifi although I've upgraded through mk1, mk2, now on mk3.
I've a Snap-On impact driver (bought as an apprentice over 40 years ago) that despite the hammering it's taken refuses to die..!!!
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I remember the LP12 as being slightly fuller-bodied than the Roksan, but the Roksan was sometimes 'hashier' I remember unless you fitted a Rega or similar arm to it. I heard Jimmy's Breuer on both decks and I think it spoiled both in terms of ease of getting a great sound - low total mass and pretty inert with it (not 'damped' sonically like an RB300 was if you got it wrong). In recent times, Jimmy was pictured using a Thorens top model?