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Post by antonio on Apr 19, 2022 14:56:24 GMT
I've just been asked these questions, perhaps the experts on here can help:-
1) What are the measurements measured against?
2) What is a Flat Response?
3) What constitutes something that measures against something that measures poorly?
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Post by macca on Apr 19, 2022 15:55:38 GMT
1) question makes no sense
2) A flat frequency response from 20Hz to 20khz (the 'audible band') That is - no derivation in amplitude within that bandwidth.
3) Do you want specific examples?
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Post by antonio on Apr 19, 2022 16:07:39 GMT
The question does make sense if I read your 2nd answer correctly, 20hz - 20khz in the audible band. You don't have to give specific examples to question three, but how far adrift from the flat frequency response would something have to be before you would class it as poor.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 19, 2022 16:44:18 GMT
The question does make sense if I read your 2nd answer correctly, 20hz - 20khz in the audible band. You don't have to give specific examples to question three, but how far adrift from the flat frequency response would something have to be before you would class it as poor. It's all relative to what you class as acceptable. 20hz-20khz +/-0.02db is my acceptable standard for solid state Phonostages. Other people are less stringent. Something that measures badly is something that deviates too far from that standard. |
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Post by macca on Apr 19, 2022 16:53:58 GMT
The question does make sense if I read your 2nd answer correctly, 20hz - 20khz in the audible band. You don't have to give specific examples to question three, but how far adrift from the flat frequency response would something have to be before you would class it as poor. For a loudspeaker it's generally considered that a variation of plus or minus 3dB is acceptable. Accepting that most speaker will likely not attempt a flat response down to 20Hz. |
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edward
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Post by edward on Apr 19, 2022 17:06:42 GMT
It would be great if there were measurements for stuff like 'texture', 'holographic', 'depth', 'width' and so forth.
I've had or listened to various amps that are seemingly the same in flat response, power output etc but sound very different.
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Post by sq225917 on Apr 19, 2022 17:26:24 GMT
Oli are you implying that you'd be prepared to accept lower accuracy on a valve stage?
Adherence to the RIAA curve so accurately isn't as important as each channel being identical. With +/-3,dB on your speakers chasing 0.02db on the RIAA is pretty much a nonsense.
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Post by macca on Apr 19, 2022 17:28:22 GMT
It would be great if there were measurements for stuff like 'texture', 'holographic', 'depth', 'width' and so forth. I've had or listened to various amps that are seemingly the same in flat response, power output etc but sound very different. Those things are either on the recordings to begin with or they're not. if they are not on it you aren't going to perceive them regardless of what equipment you use. If they are on there then the equipment can only obscure them by being less than perfect. How perfect it is can be measured. Likewise if two amps sound different that can be measured. It could be as simple as they have different gain so one is slightly louder than the other. Just 0.5 dB louder is enough to make one amp sound better than another. They're can be far more complex reasons for a difference. The amplifier/loudspeaker relationship is pretty complex for example. But this stuff is not the mystery that the audio industry - and especially reviewers and salesmen - likes to portray it is. |
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edward
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Post by edward on Apr 19, 2022 17:35:56 GMT
Cheers Martin. I guess my point was that there are so many variables in this hobby that no single measurement can distinguish between one item or another.
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Post by antonio on Apr 19, 2022 17:39:44 GMT
It would be great if there were measurements for stuff like ' texture', 'holographic', 'depth', 'width' and so forth.I've had or listened to various amps that are seemingly the same in flat response, power output etc but sound very different. If you can hear these, why can they not be measured? Sorry I see Macca has answered, but I'm pretty sure that different equipment can give you a different result regarding depth, width ect |
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optical
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Post by optical on Apr 19, 2022 17:39:52 GMT
Cheers Martin. I guess my point was that there are so many variables in this hobby that no single measurement can distinguish between one item or another. Couldn't agree with that statement any more! |
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Post by macca on Apr 19, 2022 17:53:44 GMT
Cheers Martin. I guess my point was that there are so many variables in this hobby that no single measurement can distinguish between one item or another. True, You need the complete suite of measurements. Which for any device is multiple different things. Then you have to consider the interaction with the other equipment and, for speakers, the room. It's massively complex, but nevertheless I think we can extract some basic principles from that which are of practical use in selecting equipment. |
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