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Post by brucew268 on Apr 15, 2022 12:56:35 GMT
I just put black braided sleeving over a fat (19mm) white speaker cable and noticed that a good bit of the white shows through the braid, so was thinking of using 25mm sleeving instead for less color bleed through. Most expandable sleeing seems to be sized at the midway point in it expansion capabilities so 25 should shrink down to the 19mm diameter.
Has anyone experience with color showing through and using the minimum expansion rating to compensate? Anything I should know or consider, based on your experience?
...or see damping issues below
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Post by antonio on Apr 15, 2022 13:22:37 GMT
19mm speaker cable  can also be used as towing rope. You could of course spray painted the cable black first, although I would have thought it would look attractive with a little white showing through. I used a cotton sleeving on a 18mm power cable and that was a nightmare to put on, and it also frays like a bas##rd at the end. I probably went with a size too small, but can't remember what size I ordered. |
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Post by brucew268 on Apr 15, 2022 15:07:40 GMT
Here's another thing: the expandable sleeving has a slight dampening effect.
I fitted the sleeving, secured at the ends with heat shrink. Decided not to put MIT's bulky cable splitter back afterwards and just put heat shrink over the split. The cable definitely had a brassy sound, assertive but with loss of detailed nuance in upper registers. Cutting the heat shrink away from the split got me 75% back to the sound I had before. I didn't feel like stripping the braided sleeve off just yet so cut up some egg cartons in the recycle bin and lifted the cables. Now it was pretty much back to yesterday's sound. I don't really fancy messing about with cable lifters since I move the speakers and cables every day, so would be great to find a dark sleeving solution that won't dampen the sound. Anyone??
At the speaker end are 80cm bi-wire tails finished with heat shrink from the mfr. Any guesses whether replacing the heat shrink there with braided sleeving would yield more/less/same dampening? Mfr splitter on right, 35x35x80mm Replacement heat shrink on left.
 MIT MH-750 splitter amp-end by Bruce Warren, on Flickr |
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Post by brucew268 on Apr 16, 2022 12:50:51 GMT
So whether it is physical damping or dielectric effects, it seems that some have noted that techflex (expandable sleeving) and heat shrink have effects on the sound of cables.
With all the engineering in the MIT, I assume they already have sought to pay due attention to damping and dielectrics so that my addition of any sleeving is likely to alter the sound from what I know and love to something slightly less.
I’d wondered whether a loose black silk ‘sock’ over the length of the cable might do better, but I doubt such exists except as cheap nylon or poly, whose dielectric effects are not desirable.
I may have to ask my long-suffering wife to continue putting up with my bigger than hosepipe white speaker cables!
I was hoping the SAEC would displace them but unless 100 hours is not half enough, they can’t match the MIT so far. Even two runs (shotgun) would be more aesthetic and more convenient than my MIT. |
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Post by brucew268 on Apr 16, 2022 12:55:36 GMT
Maybe better to explore how to change the colour of my cable in a permanent and aesthetic way. I don't imagine a pack of permanent black felt markers would produce a proper result!
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 16, 2022 13:12:22 GMT
Maybe better to explore how to change the colour of my cable in a permanent and aesthetic way. I don't imagine a pack of permanent black felt markers would produce a proper result! There must be something rather special in those MIT if the SAEC aren't up to their level. |
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Post by antonio on Apr 16, 2022 13:52:31 GMT
So whether it is physical damping or dielectric effects, it seems that some have noted that techflex (expandable sleeving) and heat shrink have effects on the sound of cables.
With all the engineering in the MIT, I assume they already have sought to pay due attention to damping and dielectrics so that my addition of any sleeving is likely to alter the sound from what I know and love to something slightly less.
I’d wondered whether a loose black silk ‘sock’ over the length of the cable might do better, but I doubt such exists except as cheap nylon or poly, whose dielectric effects are not desirable.
I may have to ask my long-suffering wife to continue putting up with my bigger than hosepipe white speaker cables!
I was hoping the SAEC would displace them but unless 100 hours is not half enough, they can’t match the MIT so far. Even two runs (shotgun) would be more aesthetic and more convenient than my MIT. Maybe you could try some black silk or cotton wrapped round the cable and use some double sided tape at certain points along the cable. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265171456531?hash=item3dbd735213:g:tfIAAOSw8JJaiD9h |
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Post by brucew268 on Apr 16, 2022 14:47:48 GMT
So whether it is physical damping or dielectric effects, it seems that some have noted that techflex (expandable sleeving) and heat shrink have effects on the sound of cables.
With all the engineering in the MIT, I assume they already have sought to pay due attention to damping and dielectrics so that my addition of any sleeving is likely to alter the sound from what I know and love to something slightly less.
I’d wondered whether a loose black silk ‘sock’ over the length of the cable might do better, but I doubt such exists except as cheap nylon or poly, whose dielectric effects are not desirable.
I may have to ask my long-suffering wife to continue putting up with my bigger than hosepipe white speaker cables!
I was hoping the SAEC would displace them but unless 100 hours is not half enough, they can’t match the MIT so far. Even two runs (shotgun) would be more aesthetic and more convenient than my MIT. Maybe you could try some black silk or cotton wrapped round the cable and use some double sided tape at certain points along the cable. www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265171456531?hash=item3dbd735213:g:tfIAAOSw8JJaiD9hI saw that HFC have silk sleeving in the useful size as well as cotton ones. However, I'd need to dye them... and then there is still the possibility of them acting as a damper after that effort. Emm...
There is black dye meant for rubber or plastic car bumpers (Forever and Wurth). Perhaps that would work.
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Post by antonio on Apr 16, 2022 15:15:43 GMT
Would cotton or silk in a larger size than the cable act as a damper?
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Post by brucew268 on Apr 16, 2022 22:09:33 GMT
Would cotton or silk in a larger size than the cable act as a damper? I would think so, though to a lesser extent. So, silk as a better material than many others, probably similar contact area even if oversized, but less pressure on the cable jacket. So... maybe it would be the best option to try if wanting a cover. But I'm starting to play with the idea of dye... or just leaving it. Not certain.
I do know that a couple songs into my listening session today I had to rip the braided sleeving off. The most noticeable difference between the two:
without braid - leading edge transients were more realistic and handled soft complex details better especially on the leading edge.
with the braid - leading edges decent but just slightly soft and blurred by comparison. In that way less realistic and natural.
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Post by karma67 on Apr 17, 2022 8:04:36 GMT
i can add that when i used to make cables (silver,occ etc) i tried a sleeve of carbon fibre as an external sleeve. it was supposed to have a natural sheild for emi interference. what i can say is that every time i used it it had the effect of damping the top end down a bit,i noticed a loss of air and it was something i didnt like so stopped using it.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 17, 2022 9:11:36 GMT
i can add that when i used to make cables (silver,occ etc) i tried a sleeve of carbon fibre as an external sleeve. it was supposed to have a natural sheild for emi interference. what i can say is that every time i used it it had the effect of damping the top end down a bit,i noticed a loss of air and it was something i didnt like so stopped using it. I don't disagree with that. Braiding can kill the air and space, although that can be beneficial when some cables are shrill or edgy. I have some carbon infused braid that seemed to highlight the HF..... It's a mad world. |
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Post by brucew268 on Apr 17, 2022 9:58:07 GMT
I appreciate your adding in your experiences, Jamie & Oli. It's amazing to me how hard it was to find any forum discussing or acknoledging this in possibility or practice until I started reading the cable maniacs in the Asylum from 20 years back.
BTW: I should amend the above comment to Dave: if it's a physical damping issue I would think the silk tube would be better only if a very light material (thin weave). If it's a dielectric issue, I would think the silk might sort it. But I don't know which is the cause.
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Post by sq225917 on Apr 17, 2022 10:00:41 GMT
Are we seriously claiming that a none conductive, none grounded, none contact plastic wrap around a cable affects its performance? Form an orderly queue for your Nobel prize.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 17, 2022 10:40:25 GMT
Are we seriously claiming that a none conductive, none grounded, none contact plastic wrap around a cable affects its performance? Form an orderly queue for your Nobel prize. Yes. 100% And yes, I know it's utterly bonkers. I have never mentioned it because I knew what the reaction would be. I mean, how do you prove that..........? |
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Post by macca on Apr 17, 2022 10:46:03 GMT
As with anything where there is no known technical reason you have to blind test.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 17, 2022 11:06:55 GMT
As with anything where there is no known technical reason you have to blind test. Yeah, done it. Discovered it with the Spotfire interconnects.....thought I was losing my mind. Changed the nylon braid to the carbon infused stuff and the sound changed again. Convinced I was imagining it, the gaffer swapped cables over and yeah, I still heard it. There was a slight difference in capacitance with the carbon braid on, but not enough that you'd point to it as a reason. |
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Post by macca on Apr 17, 2022 11:34:54 GMT
There's all sorts of problems with testing like that though. Did you do at least 20 tests and get it right at least 19 times? Was it double blind i.e did the gaffer know which cable she was putting in? I know what your saying, it's enough conformation for you. Just not enough to get your Nobel prize  |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 17, 2022 11:45:16 GMT
There's all sorts of problems with testing like that though. Did you do at least 20 tests and get it right at least 19 times? Was it double blind i.e did the gaffer know which cable she was putting in? I know what your saying, it's enough conformation for you. Just not enough to get your Nobel prize I wouldn't say I went that far, but like you say, it was enough for me to be convinced. No, not expecting a Nobel Prize.....more likely to be carted off to be fair lol |
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Post by macca on Apr 17, 2022 11:55:55 GMT
That's what you have to do to reduce the chance of it being just lucky guessing to the point where there's no probability of it. Yes - it's a lot of bother to have go to. You get a few bob along with those Nobel's though. Might be worth it.
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Post by sq225917 on Apr 17, 2022 15:47:38 GMT
Now I've heard everything. Maybe it'll sound better if you lift it off the floor...
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 17, 2022 16:01:33 GMT
Now I've heard everything. Maybe it'll sound better if you lift it off the floor... I'm sure I can find something you haven't heard yet.... |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 17, 2022 16:02:35 GMT
That's what you have to do to reduce the chance of it being just lucky guessing to the point where there's no probability of it. Yes - it's a lot of bother to have go to. You get a few bob along with those Nobel's though. Might be worth it. Lucky guessing!!!!!  🤣 |
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Post by macca on Apr 17, 2022 16:12:33 GMT
You're not a gambler though are you? it's surprising how often those long shots pop up. The saying in poker is 'Better to be lucky than good.'
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 17, 2022 16:16:11 GMT
You're not a gambler though are you? it's surprising how often those long shots pop up. The saying in poker is 'Better to be lucky than good.' I know what you're saying, and yes, I have landed lucky on a fair old number of occasions in this hobby, but I never make a statement without being 100% confident in what I have heard. The braid changes the sound. It's been done repeatedly here, and if you asked the guys who recently bought the SAEC cables from me, they will tell you that there isn't a braid in them......that's because they sound better without it on. I tried it. I know it's hard for some to believe or accept, but as always, I'm not here to convince anyone, just to report what happens in my system. |
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Post by pete on Apr 17, 2022 16:46:06 GMT
Ah, but does braid have an impact on the sound of power cables??!  |
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 17, 2022 16:46:38 GMT
Ah, but does braid have an impact on the sound of power cables??! Possibly, but the shield definitely does. |
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Post by sq225917 on Apr 17, 2022 17:28:21 GMT
Now I've heard everything. Maybe it'll sound better if you lift it off the floor... I'm sure I can find something you haven't heard yet.... I'm sure you can find lots of things i can't hear. Trouble is neither can anyone else hear them under proper conditions. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Apr 17, 2022 17:35:35 GMT
I'm sure I can find something you haven't heard yet.... I'm sure you can find lots of things i can't hear. Trouble is neither can anyone else hear them under proper conditions. 🤣🤣 Well, we'll just have to continue to disagree on that. |
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Post by sq225917 on Apr 17, 2022 21:48:04 GMT
Yeh, that's what makes the world go round
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can also be used as towing rope. You could of course spray painted the cable black first, although I would have thought it would look attractive with a little white showing through. I used a cotton sleeving on a 18mm power cable and that was a nightmare to put on, and it also frays like a bas##rd at the end. I probably went with a size too small, but can't remember what size I ordered.
