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Post by macca on Feb 5, 2023 12:07:30 GMT
Make sure the amplifier can handle the load the speaker is presenting and you are 95% of the way there.
problem is a lot of amps are not able to properly drive the load presented by a lot of passive speakers. This is why I like to use Krell as it will drive any speaker optimally. same with the Neurochrome. Beyond that the considerations as to what amp to use are very minor in comparison to the effect the loudspeaker and room will have on the sound quality.
If you haven't got those factors sorted then there's really no point worrying about what the amplifier 'sounds like' or how many zeros come after the decimal point on its THD figure. It's putting the cart before the horse.
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Post by macca on Feb 5, 2023 12:09:22 GMT
Let me know what you got. I did this on my phone with a pair of Sennheiser earphones. I don't have any decent headphones to use for those tests, but I know my distortion threshold will be way above what any non-broken amplifier will put out.
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Post by jandl100 on Feb 5, 2023 17:20:20 GMT
Just how high do distortion figures have to be before it becomes inacceptable? My amp's spec quotes a figure of 0.01% THD. Now that's sort of one in a thousand, which seems pretty low to me Actually it's 1 in 10,000. Which is an astonishingly high degree of accuracy. Imagine getting 99.99% in an exam - you'd be proper chuffed.
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Post by Pigmy Pony on Feb 5, 2023 23:46:30 GMT
Just how high do distortion figures have to be before it becomes inacceptable? My amp's spec quotes a figure of 0.01% THD. Now that's sort of one in a thousand, which seems pretty low to me Actually it's 1 in 10,000. Which is an astonishingly high degree of accuracy. Imagine getting 99.99% in an exam - you'd be proper chuffed. Of course it is Jerry, thanks for pointing that out I'm not even embarrassed about my rubbish maths, because my amp's distortion figure is ten times better than I thought - yay!
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Post by optical on Feb 21, 2023 8:30:10 GMT
Quick (honest) update: Fitted a BNC input, replacing the rca coax input on the Lindell DAC (hard wired with RG179 cable) Put some CCC wiring on the output RCA's Replaced some "Mazda" (Brimer I think) PCC189 valves with some nice Valvo ones for the output buffer on the DAC, very nice they sound too. Removed the class D amplifier board from my Cocktail Audio X30 (as I'm never going to use it). Unfortunately this had the undersired effect of introducing some whine from the SMPS within the unit. I swapped it back in and the noise disappeared, I assume it must provide some sort of grounding or 'relief' circuitry for the power supply to discharge into as just to be sure I repeated the process and it's dead silent with it connected and super noisy (spewing cap sound) with it removed. So it's back in haha.
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Post by optical on Feb 21, 2023 8:33:57 GMT
Also this turned up this week. (SAEC SS-300) Fit's the SP10 an absolute treat, as in, it instantly became part of the platter. It is manufactured and machined as perfectly as I've ever seen a piece of metal. There is no gap/mis-alignment/slip even though it is just metal on metal, it's just locked in place and becomes part of the platter. Sounds better than the rubber mat anyway. I was shown you can fit a thin layer of material between the top and lower platter but I don't think it's necessary with this piece, it just fits so well.
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Post by Bigman80 on Feb 21, 2023 9:40:38 GMT
Also this turned up this week. (SAEC SS-300) Fit's the SP10 an absolute treat, as in, it instantly became part of the platter. It is manufactured and machined as perfectly as I've ever seen a piece of metal. There is no gap/mis-alignment/slip even though it is just metal on metal, it's just locked in place and becomes part of the platter. Sounds better than the rubber mat anyway. I was shown you can fit a thin layer of material between the top and lower platter but I don't think it's necessary with this piece, it just fits so well. That platter mat looks the bizzo. I love that. SAEC make proper stuff and no, I wouldn't put anything between the platter and the matt. Great purchase!
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Post by gninnam on Feb 21, 2023 20:50:09 GMT
Like the look of the mat - looks very neat!
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Post by pete on Feb 21, 2023 20:57:35 GMT
Also this turned up this week. (SAEC SS-300) Fit's the SP10 an absolute treat, as in, it instantly became part of the platter. It is manufactured and machined as perfectly as I've ever seen a piece of metal. There is no gap/mis-alignment/slip even though it is just metal on metal, it's just locked in place and becomes part of the platter. Sounds better than the rubber mat anyway. I was shown you can fit a thin layer of material between the top and lower platter but I don't think it's necessary with this piece, it just fits so well. That mat looks great, sure it sounds great too
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Post by optical on Mar 14, 2023 8:01:32 GMT
So following on slightly from another thread, here is my attempt to combat any stray RFI/electronic hash floating around in digital components. Starting with my DAC and the Mutec re-clocker. Using some Stillpoints "ERS fabric" which is supposed to stop any 'leak' from noisy components, especially clocks which are known to spew high frequency interference all over the place (seems to be the common conception anyway). The plan was to use it very sparingly on what are likely to be the main offenders (clocks, D/A chips, digital input chips etc) so I set about cutting them to exact size (to cover the components without any overhang or contact with any other area) and using a very small amount of white-tac, secure them in place. Reading around, the stuff can be very effective (indicated by the fact that when many users completely covered analogue components it 'sucked' the life out of their equipment) evidence enough for me that it does indeed do 'something'. If I liked the effect the plan was to add more and more to various components (there's a lot of chips left to cover in my equipment) and go from there. You can also use it to supress any RFI leaking into the system on the inputs from coax/AES/USB etc by placing a small amount on top of/around the inputs. So what effect has putting a little bit here and there had? Well it's better, it is. I'll save you any 'subjective' descriptions but you can probably fill in the blanks for yourselves when I say, I have no desire to mess about by adding/subtracting any more material right now . . . . . I'm sure there will come a point when I do start to wonder what more will/could do, but for now the lift in SQ was so apparent and obvious that I do not want to mess with it, no, not one bit. This has worked for me
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Post by optical on May 3, 2023 8:57:34 GMT
Quick update: So a few 'upgrades' have been happening in parallel with the arrival of the Arke Vader's . . . . Firstly after my Lindell DAC was shown up somewhat by Oli's Aqvox a little while ago, I knew there was only one thing for it . . . . yes I have no shame in treading the exact same 'copycat' path, if it gets me to the desired level of SQ without me having to potentially spend large sums of money if only to possibly come to the same conclusion, I'm fine with that! In some walks of life I am a firm believer in finding your own way but at the same time I'd be a fool (and a poorer fool at that) if I ignored the information made available to me by having a direct comparison of these two DAC's. SO I found a Aqvox and got it for a fairly good price. Upon opening it up I found it was in fact an earlier model (the "MK1") . . . oh dear, didn't even realise there were different marks for this DAC, note, do more research first . . . although on the outside they certainly look identical. My version also looks to have had a clock mod (indicating the previous owner may have had an interest in maximising SQ also, probably a good thing . . . or not). . . Anyway, good news is that it sounded good, really good actually. Plus it was only going to get better after the really cruddy (worse than the mkII version) SMPS was ripped out and replaced by an absolute monster power supply courtesy of mr firebottle . . . another awesome job. Before: After: After a few days it's sounding pretty darn good. I'm now finding it difficult to pick fault with it actually . . . a good sign. So what's next? Well as mentioned on the clock thread, a few weeks ago, when I had my mutec at Oli's, we concluded that it was being held back by the fairly lacklustre power supply (even though it was a built linear one). Some of the parts we found in the supply were, slightly below par shall we say . . . I also needed to put the clock in a proper enclosure and also feed it with a proper power supply, so really the solution presented itself in the form of packing it all together in one neat box utilising all the windings from a transformer to power two separate supply boards for both the Mutec and indeed the clock that re-clocks the Mutec . . . if that makes sense! Here is the (nearly) finished item on Oli's bench: All that was left for me to do was to add the umbilical lead for the Mutec and thread the 10mhz clock cable through the chassis, add a little gromet and connect the thing up. Instant improvement in all departments, as simple as that. i was a little worried as I had been running both the Mutec and clock off a rechargeable battery pack, which sounded pretty good actually (although not that surprising given that they give a clean 5v supply with no induced noise possible) but I needn't have worried. Top build Oli (we did manage to completely knacker my other supply at Oli's as we quickly tried to improve it by adding a spare board Oli had laying around however the transformer proved to be a bit of a t**t . . . so it seemed a better solution to start again and do it properly!). Lastly . . . . and potentially a bit of icing on the cake is this SAEC Dig-4000 mk2 coax cable. Again, only because it did such a commendable job going up against a few other cables I tested against, although admittedly this is the most expensive of the lot. But it sounds miles better, so more than justifies it's price in my opinion. These upgrades (along with the speakers themselves) have really changed my system, all for the positive. I'm still getting used to and adjusting to these massive changes to be honest and I've got all sorts of new power supplies (as well as cables) settling down/burning in (whatever you want to call it) as well as the speakers themselves . . . so I feel there is even more to come. This is not the end of the current upgrade path either, to be honest I'm only really just getting started . . . .
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Post by zleepy on May 3, 2023 10:21:03 GMT
I'm picking up interest in the Aqvox. Can't help it. Does the MK1 and MK2 have the same voltage requirements from the PSU? Can you post the make and model of the transformer?
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Post by Bigman80 on May 3, 2023 10:22:14 GMT
I'm picking up interest in the Aqvox. Can't help it. Does the MK1 and MK2 have the same voltage requirements from the PSU? Can you post the make and model of the transformer? Aqvox have a sale at the moment. I have picked up a new one for £850ish. MKI and MKII have different supply requirements.
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Post by stevew on May 3, 2023 10:26:16 GMT
I'm picking up interest in the Aqvox. Can't help it. Does the MK1 and MK2 have the same voltage requirements from the PSU? Can you post the make and model of the transformer? Aqvox have a sale at the moment. I have picked up a new one for £850ish. MKI and MKII have different supply requirements. Does that include shipping from Germany?
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Post by optical on May 3, 2023 10:31:06 GMT
I'm picking up interest in the Aqvox. Can't help it. Does the MK1 and MK2 have the same voltage requirements from the PSU? Can you post the make and model of the transformer? Slightly different requirements but the same design for the MK1 and MK2 can be made to work thanks to a sprinkling of genius know how from Mr Alan firebottle . . . . The board requires 20v, -20v, 5v and 3.3v. The board is this: (Its the "L" varient I believe). www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002990996982.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.16.21ef1802JaXdS5Although perhaps Alan could recommend a different version which may actually be more suited to the mk1 version. (I ordered the bits assuming the requirments were that of the MK2, then whan Alan got inside it he noticed they were not actually the same). I don't have the transformer info to hand but I'm sure Alan can fill in the blanks at some point. As you probably know the current version (mk2) is available brand new for a very good price . . . . (EDIT - as Oli says above )
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Post by Bigman80 on May 3, 2023 10:41:30 GMT
Aqvox have a sale at the moment. I have picked up a new one for £850ish. MKI and MKII have different supply requirements. Does that include shipping from Germany? Yes...but i don't know if that includes taxes....but i don't care. best DAC i have found under £3k new, IMHO I also don't know how many are left, or if they are being discontinued etc..add one to your basket, pay and see what happens.
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Post by stevew on May 3, 2023 10:45:46 GMT
Does that include shipping from Germany? Yes...but i don't know if that includes taxes....but i don't care. best DAC i have found under £3k new, IMHO I also don't know how many are left, or if they are being discontinued etc..add one to your basket, pay and see what happens. Yeah but.. no but.. What will the babies eat tonight?
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Post by Bigman80 on May 3, 2023 10:47:43 GMT
I'm picking up interest in the Aqvox. Can't help it. Does the MK1 and MK2 have the same voltage requirements from the PSU? Can you post the make and model of the transformer? Dont forget, there are a few on ebay Kleinenzeigen...but we can't get them in the UK
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Post by zleepy on May 3, 2023 10:49:47 GMT
Wow, that's more complicated than I thought! Can you really supply 4 separate voltages from one traffo? Alan must have tweaked the regulator board to get +/- 20V instead of the +/-15 V? The L version of the board supplies +5V and +/- 15V. How do you get an additional +3,3V?
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Post by Bigman80 on May 3, 2023 10:50:48 GMT
Wow, that's more complicated than I thought! Can you really supply 4 separate voltages from one traffo? Alan must have tweaked the regulator board to get +/- 20V instead of the +/-15 V? The L version of the board supplies +5V and +/- 15V. How do you get an additional +3,3V? There may be a regulator on the DAC PCB that looks after that 3.3v
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Post by zleepy on May 3, 2023 10:56:43 GMT
Ah ok, I though about that also. This is so tempting.
Could you Alan tell how you got the plus minus 20V and if the 3,3V is regulated on the main board?
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Post by pete on May 3, 2023 11:05:26 GMT
I have tried to get one from Germany and Bulgaria but sellers pulled out when they found the hassle posting to uk. The new price seems amazing and that would be the way I would have gone if I didn’t find one in the uk, Wolverhampton to be precise!! And it is amazing. I’ll put up my thoughts on a new thread later.
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Post by firebottle on May 3, 2023 16:06:08 GMT
Ah ok, I though about that also. This is so tempting. Could you Alan tell how you got the plus minus 20V and if the 3,3V is regulated on the main board? As has been said the Mk1 and Mk2 require different voltages. The triple regulator board has to be tweaked to get the required voltages. Mk2: Requires plus 16V, minus 16V and 5V. The 3.3V regulator is on the main board. I changed the variable voltage setting resistors to get the extra 1V per rail. The transformers used were all miniature toroids, one 8V secondary to supply the 5V regulator, plus two 9+9V transformers wired to give 18-0-18V for the 16V regulators. Mk1: Requires plus 20V, minus 20V, 5V and 3.3V. I added a variable regulator on the end of the triple regulator board, fed from the 5V output to give the required 3.3V. I changed two 47K SMT resistors to 68K to give the +/- 20V from the regulators. One 50VA transformer was used, the power rating is way above what is required but this results in just using one transformer, plus the loaded voltages are higher so an off the shelf transformer can be used. The transformer is wired to give 0-9-18V on the secondaries, all rectification is half wave so one diode has to be removed from the bridge feeding the 5V regulator. The 0V wire has to be wired to the common of the +/- 20V regulator after the bridge rectifier and the zero of the 5V regulator. The 18V wire connects to both AC inputs to the bridge for the +/-20V regulator. Satisfyingly simple.
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Post by zleepy on May 3, 2023 16:29:10 GMT
Oh my, If I were to try this, it would have to be with the MK2. Impressive work on both, but especially on the MK1! Satifyingly simple...yeah
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Post by optical on Jun 6, 2023 7:25:00 GMT
June update! Well having been away for various reasons over the past few weeks you'd have thought that might kerb my hifi spending . . . quite the opposite (oh dear) . . . having sold a few bits and pieces here and there I was actually feeling quite good about thinning out the 'reserves bench' pile . . . . However this purchase would be going straight into the starting line-up (hopefully) given it's pedigree. Couldn't turn it down, enter a Holo Audio Spring 2 (level 3) DAC . . . . Firstly I must state I was really happy with the performance of the Aqvox, my plan was to simply evaluate the two head to head and logically move one on after the comparison. A comparison I'm still conducting only having had it for a few days (and not put as many hours as I would have liked into the comparison to be honest). However I'll give a few thoughts on the immediate impressions. It's soundstage is enormous, it has very good texture and timbre on instruments and it's the smoothest DAC I've had to date. Not overly smooth in a 'rolled off' sort of presentation, just in a way that naturally knits parts of the music together. This may also be due to a slight reduction in ultimate resolution compared to some recent DAC's (Soekris/Aqvox etc) but my system seems to have benefitted from some smoothing being applied in the digital realm. I think when you get to a certain performance level with DAC's (lower high tear) you have to pick a couple of performance aspects you cannot possibly live without and plumb for one that fulfills those requirements . . . okay maybe 4 or 5 things you cannot live without . . . haha. For me, whenever I've heard a valve buffer in a DAC (a decent one anyway) it immediately serves to highlight what I think is missing from most SS DAC's. Even if that means a reduction in resolution, detail or accuracy, the added air, decay and space within a recording (synthetic or not) which can be brought about by a valve buffer stage, is always a welcome addition. Not to mention the slight bump in perceived texture that low-mid frequency instruments seem to get from valves, so what if it is some added distortion, it can sound pretty good and can make instruments sound more realistic IME. Then usually after further listening this 'imprint' on the music from the buffer stage becomes tedious when you don't want it applied to absolutely everything. Certain performances just seem to sound a little 'off' in some areas. The Holo seems to apply enough of what I've highlighted above in a positive sense without imprinting that sound on all performances, just the ones where elements of those qualities are present in the recording anyway, it's just really able to bring them out in a natural way. - DISCLAIMER - Now as some of you know my listening habits are not exactly what you would call 'mainstream' . . . . Yes I do like to listen to a wide selection of stuff but especially at the moment I would say that 80% of my listening is covered by electronica. Vinyl included. To be honest the main reason I have been sticking other stuff on is just to see that I haven't tweaked the system so far into the realms of gigantic sound staging and sounds appearing from absolutely anywhere, just to keep a reference somewhat close to a proper stereo image. I'm happy to report that bands still appear within a soundstage, imaging is very good and singers are not unnaturally blown up out of all proportion. However I am able to maintain an absolutely gigantic presentation when the recording allows for it with ground rumbling bass from the Vader's. I guess my goal has always been to have a system that can recreate a full THX theatre setup (able to touch upon those concert hall moments) whilst also performing as a hifi, able to provide nuance and intimate detail when required. I think it's pretty damn close to be honest. I think the addition of the Holo has brought a nice balance between these two different camps, for now at least there is enough detail and resolution to accurately portray a band recording, whilst there is enough scale and macro dynamics to transport you to another dimension of soundscape (and escapism), by far the most important factor for me. Fairly happy . . . for now.
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Post by optical on Jun 6, 2023 7:31:32 GMT
Another addition recently has been underneath the speakers . . . Not wanting (right now) to shell out £1000++ on Townshend podiums etc I've gone the cheap route for now. So I've got 8 hockey pucks . . . haha . . . They are air filled rubber 'training' pucks. With the outriggers of the speakers balanced on the centre of each puck the weight is spread evenly. There is still a little elasticity left in the pucks and the speakers themselves even wobble a bit left to right and front to back (a bit like a proper podium). Of course I won't be getting anywhere near the performance increase brought about by proper podiums but things have actually improved quite a lot. Bass is better (although that improvement may be due to the speakers being raised 20mm or so further off the floor, allowing the bass drivers a bit more room to breath). This also raises the listening height a touch, which is welcome as they sounded better when I was sunken back down into my sofa whilst listening, so now I don't have a slump so low to get the best sound haha.
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Post by lurch on Jun 6, 2023 9:35:34 GMT
Ohh, a Holo Spring!! Would love to get a listen to one of those, and possibly Benchmark my maxed out BI against it.
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Post by optical on Jun 6, 2023 9:40:04 GMT
Ohh, a Holo Spring!! Would love to get a listen to one of those, and possibly Benchmark my maxed out BI against it. Yeah me too, I'm more homebased in the coming months so we can definately sort something out I'm sure. I nearly bought another Jolida recently actually as I remember how good my modded Glass FX III was, although likely not taken quite as far as yours by the sounds of it. That combo with panels got pretty special as I remember.
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Post by brucew268 on Jun 6, 2023 10:01:01 GMT
I gotta stop reading this forum. Drool! Congratulations on the Holo Spring and thank you for the great description of what you are hearing. "Training" hockey pucks, emmm. I guess they well suit the weight of the Vaders, noting that the Townshend and IsoAcoustics both do best in he weight range they were designed for.
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Post by Bigman80 on Jun 6, 2023 10:02:11 GMT
Nice to see some system development going on Chris. The Holo dacs are great aren't they. I know exactly what you mean by saying they lose a little rez in favour of other factors, which seems to be of greater importance to many audiophiles.
I genuinely don't think you can go wrong with a Holo DAC. Great music makers that are pretty much universally recommendable to anyone. The few weeks i had Alans Spring 3 KTE were a joy. Well done.
I am loving the puck idea. There is no substitute for Townshend bars/podiums IMO, but it never hurts to confirm the theory with something else.
Hopefully, i can get this Aqvox done soon and we can put the Holo and Aqvox together on your system and give them a proper comparison. I'll bring the X50D too.
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