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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 9:00:17 GMT
Going to be sticking these into my DIY 3-ways today...  Beautiful... :-) My only concern is that the cut-out required is significantly bigger than that for the existing dome tweeters. Once I cut, I won't be able to go back if I don't like the new ribbons... As a test, I may fit a blanking plate over the hole as-is, and feed the wiring through a blu-tac sealed hole in the blanking plate to the new ribbons perched on top of the cabinets. Just to give me an indication that the overall sound will be OK. (It's a sealed cabinet design, so I can't leave the tweeter hole open.) |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 21, 2018 9:28:22 GMT
My experiences of ribbons have been all positive, first encounter was SD1s. Outstanding. Then Glastonbury’s: mind blowing, Then Alphason Alphason and Orpheus: very good. I also had Apogee Centaurs which were wonderful in so many ways. Dispersion was the only downside in that you had to sit in a very small sweet spot.
I wanted to fit ribbon tweeters into the DIY cube speakers I made, but I decided not to because it was upward firing and I was worried about dispersion issues.
From my limited dabbling, I took away a clear preference for the quality of output from Ribbons. One day I hope to try some Apogee full range ribbons.
Looking forward to see what you do with yours, Ben.
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Jul 21, 2018 9:31:14 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 9:31:14 GMT
My experiences of ribbons have been all positive, first encounter was SD1s. Outstanding. Then Glastonbury’s: mind blowing, Then Alphason Alphason and Orpheus: very good. I also had Apogee Centaurs which were wonderful in so many ways. Dispersion was the only downside in that you had to sit in a very small sweet spot. I wanted to fit ribbon tweeters into the DIY cube speakers I made, but I decided not to because it was upward firing and I was worried about dispersion issues. From my limited dabbling, I took away a clear preference for the quality of output from Ribbons. One day I hope to try some Apogee full range ribbons. Looking forward to see what you do with yours, Ben. About to heat up the iron... Yes. I like ribbons too. :-) It’s just the irreversible hole cutting that’s stressing me. |
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 21, 2018 9:33:34 GMT
It would un-nerve me too. Not a possibility with a sealed baffle speaker, but I really liked the leaf spring arrangement on the Naim IBL. I don’t know if it would do the same for a ribbon tweeter as it did for a dome one, but I have always carried with me an intention to experiment with tweeter suspension at some point.
At least you are daring to try the ribbon. It’s probably going to be worthwhile too.
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Post by dsjr on Jul 21, 2018 10:20:41 GMT
My experiences of ribbons are mixed I'm afraid. VERY difficult to properly integrate with cone/dome bass-mid units and ribbons, and I saw in a comparative test, they're not as distortion-free as claimed and dispersion is odd too... usually I tend to hear a slower bass and mids with a tinsel razor on top, but i haven't heard a huge range of modern options. This isn't the comparison of a group of different tweeters I remember reading a year or two ago, but explains fairly (I think) what's going on - novo.press/the-pros-and-cons-of-ribbon-tweeters/
Westie - The IBL's tweeter mounting 'plate' was more a marketing thing (like having loose connector socketss in the Ovator models) and had nothing to do with sound quality. The IBL box was solid enough and myself, I'd worry more about the cheap paper cone bass-mid driver (M_S made for a fiver perhaps as the SBL early driver was at £6?). Naim speakers were all about marketing and using odd cobbled 'tech' in bass loading to make some kind of statement to separate their products out from 'everyone else.' The SBL boxes alone cost as much as complete ES14's for example I remember Robin telling me - totally ott construction with no real grounds for 'decoupling' the tweeters via different means that a sorbothane 'washer' wouldn't have done as well...... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 10:38:07 GMT
My experiences of ribbons are mixed I'm afraid. VERY difficult to properly integrate with cone/dome bass-mid units and ribbons, and I saw in a comparative test, they're not as distortion-free as claimed and dispersion is odd too... usually I tend to hear a slower bass and mids with a tinsel razor on top, but i haven't heard a huge range of modern options. I've used a cheaper ribbon than this Visaton one in some Goodmans Magisters I played around with. Really liked the smooth lightness of touch. Hence wanting to try here. Anyway, this is where we are so far on this little experiment...  Tweeter arrangement won't win any design awards, but sounds good...! Certainly good enough for me to attack that baffle... (Also it seems to be performing as its sensitivity rating (91dB) predicted...close to the 91dB Monacor dome tweeter it replaced...) ...Watch this space! |
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 21, 2018 12:05:42 GMT
My experiences of ribbons are mixed I'm afraid. VERY difficult to properly integrate with cone/dome bass-mid units and ribbons, and I saw in a comparative test, they're not as distortion-free as claimed and dispersion is odd too... usually I tend to hear a slower bass and mids with a tinsel razor on top, but i haven't heard a huge range of modern options. I've used a cheaper ribbon than this Visaton one in some Goodmans Magisters I played around with. Really liked the smooth lightness of touch. Hence wanting to try here. Anyway, this is where we are so far on this little experiment... Tweeter arrangement won't win any design awards, but sounds good...! Certainly good enough for me to attack that baffle... (Also it seems to be performing as its sensitivity rating (91dB) predicted...close to the 91dB Monacor dome tweeter it replaced...) ...Watch this space! Reminds me a bit of the Alphason Orpheus the way it’s sat on top. Good luck with the cut. |
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Jul 21, 2018 12:16:02 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 12:16:02 GMT
All done...
Almost fucked up one of the cuts. But, thank goodness, not quite!
All in and playing.
After a few minutes, they sound somewhat different to the domes.
Initial thoughts are lighter and definitely smoother.
Mostly better, I think, but will give it a few days and see what happens.
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 21, 2018 12:30:49 GMT
Jeez that was lighting fast. I’d have spent a morning marking them up and building up courage, then an afternoon double checking measurements. Then an evening. Searching for the right router bit!
Nothing as satisfying as making your own speakers and hearing them get better.
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 21, 2018 12:53:49 GMT
All done... Almost fucked up one of the cuts. But, thank goodness, not quite! All in and playing. After a few minutes, they sound somewhat different to the domes. Initial thoughts are lighter and definitely smoother. Mostly better, I think, but will give it a few days and see what happens. Hi Ben. Just wondered if you sit perfectly on axis and whether you always listen on your own? Just wondering whether their performance is consistent when you go a bit off axis. |
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Post by nonuffin on Jul 21, 2018 13:10:29 GMT
I have ribbon tweeters in my Quadral Chromuim Style 6 speakers and they are without any doubt the best ribbons I have heard and there have been a good few over the years.
![]() I recently bought a pair of Systemdek Systym 165 floorstanders and the couriers managed to bust the original dome tweeters. I had more chance of swimming the atlantic than sourcing a new pair so I fitted a pair of ribbons I bought off ebay for silly money
Not too bad sounding and better than leaving holes in the cabinets LOL
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 13:36:52 GMT
Jeez that was lighting fast. I’d have spent a morning marking them up and building up courage, then an afternoon double checking measurements. Then an evening. Searching for the right router bit! Nothing as satisfying as making your own speakers and hearing them get better. Thankfully, I don’t have any measuring equipment. :-D I’d never do any listening! I tend to tweak and fiddle for a while using digital frequency shelves to set driver levels, but use just my ears. After I’m happy things are as good as I can get them, I make up some L-pads to the values arrived at through the digital jiggery pokery. |
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Jul 21, 2018 13:39:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 13:39:30 GMT
All done... Almost fucked up one of the cuts. But, thank goodness, not quite! All in and playing. After a few minutes, they sound somewhat different to the domes. Initial thoughts are lighter and definitely smoother. Mostly better, I think, but will give it a few days and see what happens. Hi Ben. Just wondered if you sit perfectly on axis and whether you always listen on your own? Just wondering whether their performance is consistent when you go a bit off axis. Good question. I’m afraid Dad has his seat in the lounge in my house. My wife can’t tell the difference between the sound of my system and the speaker in her Iphone, so off-axis listening is not critical here. But, I will endeavour to do so once I’ve got things sorted... |
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Jul 21, 2018 13:42:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 13:42:45 GMT
I have ribbon tweeters in my Quadral Chromuim Style 6 speakers and they are without any doubt the best ribbons I have heard and there have been a good few over the years.
![]() I recently bought a pair of Systemdek Systym 165 floorstanders and the couriers managed to bust the original dome tweeters. I had more chance of swimming the atlantic than sourcing a new pair so I fitted a pair of ribbons I bought off ebay for silly money
Not too bad sounding and better than leaving holes in the cabinets LOL
Nice. :-) I think I saw the top ones when I was looking for mine. Chose the ones I went for simply on their 91db sensitivity and “down to 4khz” ratings. May well try your recommended ones at some point in future. Ta. And yes, I think i’d usually aim for ribbons. Something smooth, sweet and airy about them. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 13:47:55 GMT
Just to prove it...  (Edit...Please note old Monacor DT-19SU tweeters sitting sadly, and rejected, on bass trap on left). |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 13:55:42 GMT
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 21, 2018 14:46:31 GMT
Jeez that was lighting fast. I’d have spent a morning marking them up and building up courage, then an afternoon double checking measurements. Then an evening. Searching for the right router bit! Nothing as satisfying as making your own speakers and hearing them get better. Thankfully, I don’t have any measuring equipment. :-D I’d never do any listening! I tend to tweak and fiddle for a while using digital frequency shelves to set driver levels, but use just my ears. After I’m happy things are as good as I can get them, I make up some L-pads to the values arrived at through the digital jiggery pokery. Sorry, my bad. I meant measurementof the cut out and spacing so the two holes were exactly the same size and distance from the cabinet edges. I have very little interest in measured performance, which is a good job because I don’t understand most of it and none of it has seemed to relate to what I hear. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 21, 2018 14:47:14 GMT
Just to prove it... (Edit...Please note old Monacor DT-19SU tweeters sitting sadly, and rejected, on bass trap on left). They look much smarter and somehow more “right” to me. |
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 21, 2018 15:46:06 GMT
Cheers, Ben. That’s great thing to have. Wish I’d kept more records and pics |
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Post by macca on Jul 21, 2018 16:36:37 GMT
Looks good. You have some sort of little feet under the speakers?
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Jul 21, 2018 16:49:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 16:49:44 GMT
And is that Tom-Toms under the table..!!!
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Jul 21, 2018 16:55:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 16:55:20 GMT
Thankfully, I don’t have any measuring equipment. :-D I’d never do any listening! I tend to tweak and fiddle for a while using digital frequency shelves to set driver levels, but use just my ears. After I’m happy things are as good as I can get them, I make up some L-pads to the values arrived at through the digital jiggery pokery. Sorry, my bad. I meant measurementof the cut out and spacing so the two holes were exactly the same size and distance from the cabinet edges. I have very little interest in measured performance, which is a good job because I don’t understand most of it and none of it has seemed to relate to what I hear. Ah understood. ...There was some measurement.  |
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Jul 21, 2018 16:57:26 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 16:57:26 GMT
Just to prove it... (Edit...Please note old Monacor DT-19SU tweeters sitting sadly, and rejected, on bass trap on left). They look much smarter and somehow more “right” to me. Thanks. Yes. I think they look better. To my eye the larger, squarer ribbons make for a more distinguished top of the totem pole. :-) |
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Jul 21, 2018 16:58:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 16:58:55 GMT
Looks good. You have some sort of little feet under the speakers? Little metal discs under the spikes. Saves the laminate and means I can slide the speakers around a bit. Nothing fancy in either case. Cheapest I could find on eBay at the time. |
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Jul 21, 2018 16:59:28 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 16:59:28 GMT
And is that Tom-Toms under the table..!!! Man, know thy hand percussion! Bongos. :-) |
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Jul 21, 2018 17:06:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 17:06:44 GMT
Bongos......Ace.
Sorry I thought Tom-Toms & Bongos were the same thing. 🤔
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Jul 21, 2018 17:19:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 17:19:57 GMT
Bongos......Ace. Sorry I thought Tom-Toms & Bongos were the same thing. 🤔 Tbf, so did I. Bongos are those smaller ones. Traditionally played seated with the bongos between your knees. Congas are taller (approx a metre) and have a lower pitch. |
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Post by antonio on Jul 21, 2018 17:49:10 GMT
You've done a nice job there doc. I'll agree with Westie you haven't let the grass grow under your feet today.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Jul 21, 2018 19:17:02 GMT
Bongos......Ace. Sorry I thought Tom-Toms & Bongos were the same thing. 🤔 Tbf, so did I. Bongos are those smaller ones. Traditionally played seated with the bongos between your knees. Congas are taller (approx a metre) and have a lower pitch. News to me too. That’s 2 things I’ve learned today. Now I’m left wondering whether a Bongo recorded at 20 bits will be louder than a Tom Tom recorded at 24 bits  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 19:53:14 GMT
Tom-toms. Oops my boob. Why did I say congas?
Bongos are more like tom-toms than congas.
Tom-toms are the drums that sit on top of the bass drum in a kit. You play them with sticks, not hands.
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