Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2022 15:06:36 GMT
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Post by antonio on Mar 14, 2022 15:12:49 GMT
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Post by misterc on Mar 14, 2022 15:20:45 GMT
Indeed Martin you are correct, that was my mistake, my observations MC carts lowish outputs should have been my suggestion. Not really listened to a MM that has said buy me, but as always ymmv
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Post by robbiegong on Mar 14, 2022 15:23:00 GMT
There you go, clearly a top notch cart, right up there with some mid priced mc's and that's big compliment indeed. £829 is actually not a lot for what it will bring to a system capable of letting it show it's prowess and ability. I've had the 2MB mm and the Cadenza Black mc, both excellent so, considering the CB is around £2k now, the LVB could well be regarded by some as a bargain, in this game.
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Post by pete on Mar 14, 2022 15:42:41 GMT
How would the 2M LV compare with a MC for this sort of price??
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Post by antonio on Mar 14, 2022 16:05:34 GMT
Would this LVB 250 better the Denon 103R?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2022 16:38:38 GMT
Would this LVB 250 better the Denon 103R? In my opinion, yes. Not sure what the love is for the 103. It boogies well, but it won’t give the detail of the 2MB LVB 250. My 103 was modified beyond all recognition, and I eventually sold it as it was a clear mismatch in my set up. It was rebodied, boron canti with a Shibata, so far from a standard 103. If detail is your thing, you need to look elsewhere.
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Post by mikeyb on Mar 14, 2022 16:58:59 GMT
sell it, there's better out there for less
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 14, 2022 17:01:50 GMT
sell it, there's better out there for less Well that's not true tbf....... Is it possible to go backwards though? I mean I haven't heard it really so the damage isnt done yet
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2022 17:28:58 GMT
Just buy an AT VM95ML and save yourself shed loads of cash and worry.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2022 17:29:32 GMT
What we need is an MM/MI bake off.
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Post by antonio on Mar 14, 2022 17:32:53 GMT
Only you can decide Oli, which direction do you want to go? Are you listening to more digital, are you enjoying your music and do you still feel vinyl has a big part to play in your future, if not sell up and buy the equivalent of a Rega P6. I'll bring my Lenco to the get together just to see what you think.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 14, 2022 18:07:26 GMT
Would this LVB 250 better the Denon 103R? In my opinion, yes. Not sure what the love is for the 103. It boogies well, but it won’t give the detail of the 2MB LVB 250. My 103 was modified beyond all recognition, and I eventually sold it as it was a clear mismatch in my set up. It was rebodied, boron canti with a Shibata, so far from a standard 103. If detail is your thing, you need to look elsewhere. The Denon 103 is pretty Sh#t in any guise IMO. Why there is such an obsession about them I will never know, mind you, I don't get the love for springy or idler drive turntables either.
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Post by electronumpty on Mar 14, 2022 18:22:56 GMT
If I didn't need the money I would keep it as I wouldn't be able to get another probably. If you get the taste for vinyl back then all well and good. Or you can sell on at a later date if no financial pressure.
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Post by macca on Mar 14, 2022 18:41:59 GMT
In my opinion, yes. Not sure what the love is for the 103. It boogies well, but it won’t give the detail of the 2MB LVB 250. My 103 was modified beyond all recognition, and I eventually sold it as it was a clear mismatch in my set up. It was rebodied, boron canti with a Shibata, so far from a standard 103. If detail is your thing, you need to look elsewhere. The Denon 103 is pretty Sh#t in any guise IMO. Why there is such an obsession about them I will never know, mind you, I don't get the love for springy or idler drive turntables either. it's got the big bass and shiny top end and it paints in broad strokes. Some people like that compared to your 'forensic' Audio Technica type of sound. I had a demo of one in my system and it wasn't for me. That's why I rate Nagaoka as they have all the good attributes of both and none of the downsides. There's no way I'd pay the prices these days though, the whole format just isn't value for money anymore. ten years ago you could still pick up decent first pressings for a fiver or a tenner, new stylus was £120 twice a year, it wasn't too crazy. Now your looking at a grand a year just in cartridges, when you can buy digital front end for half that which comfortably outperforms any turntable set up at any price and you don't have to buy it again every year. Just doesn't make sense to me unless you're seriously loaded.
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Post by sq225917 on Mar 14, 2022 19:00:36 GMT
I think my digital pile grows at twice the rate of my vinyl pile. The benz lp certainly only sees one or two hours use a month. 8 years old still under 250 hours on it.
Would I do without it, hell no.
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Post by myles on Mar 14, 2022 19:11:59 GMT
Keep it - it's never going to be worth less than what it is worth now. If you do decide you want to use it at least you'll have it; you won't get another one if you let this one go.
I'd say just get on and use it but it's easy for me to say.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2022 20:57:13 GMT
Send it to me. I will look after it for you….
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Post by robbiegong on Mar 14, 2022 21:12:25 GMT
Send it to me. I will look after it for you…. Wait ya turn
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dt79
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Post by dt79 on Mar 14, 2022 21:31:47 GMT
Woah, Ollie - didn’t see this coming.
Keep it, use it, enjoy it. Worry about the rest later. Get it retipped when you need to for a few hundred quid. You could probably retip it 3 times for what an LVB is going to cost you now.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 14, 2022 22:16:39 GMT
Woah, Ollie - didn’t see this coming. Keep it, use it, enjoy it. Worry about the rest later. Get it retipped when you need to for a few hundred quid. You could probably retip it 3 times for what an LVB is going to cost you now. That's actually a very good point.
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Post by antonio on Mar 15, 2022 5:27:50 GMT
I'll just say, I always thought I'd dislike the Denon 103 until I actually heard it. I did ask is there a better value cartridge as your daily user, my link price was £278, that LVB was over £800. Considering you have the Winnie as number one, buying a Denon makes a lot of sense to me unless you completely dislike it, which I would find hard to believe even though it may not be your favourite.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2022 5:39:02 GMT
I reckon that the AT VM95ML will give a 103 a good run for the money. A VM540ML would be even better.
Both for less, and you can change the stylus when worn.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2022 6:28:25 GMT
But what Oli really needs to do, is build his Ultime, fit the Winnie and have a listen. I think he will change his mind after that.
If he sells the Winnie, he may as well down grade the SP10 as well.
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Post by antonio on Mar 15, 2022 9:42:20 GMT
I agree with you on that one Kevin.
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Post by macca on Mar 15, 2022 10:02:17 GMT
I don't and the idea of downgrading to a Rega is just nuts unless you want wobbly piano notes.
The downgrade from an SP10 is an SL1200.If you keep the same arm and cartridge you'd struggle to tell the difference.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 15, 2022 11:10:26 GMT
But what Oli really needs to do, is build his Ultime, fit the Winnie and have a listen. I think he will change his mind after that. If he sells the Winnie, he may as well down grade the SP10 as well. I think i read that statement three times before I was convinced I'd read it correctly. Downgrade the SP10? Why would I do that?? The difference in performance between cartridges is nowhere near the performance differences in turntables. In fact, when you get a turntable like this one, cartridges are give the optimal condition in which to perform. Many carts are better than people think, especially when you look at the combination of TT and arm they were used on to evaluate them! I'm slightly perplexed by the notion that I should downgrade to TT too.
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Bigman80
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Post by Bigman80 on Mar 15, 2022 11:13:43 GMT
I don't and the idea of downgrading to a Rega is just nuts unless you want wobbly piano notes. The downgrade from an SP10 is an SL1200.If you keep the same arm and cartridge you'd struggle to tell the difference. No chance. The 1210/1200 is nowhere near the SP10. Same arm and cart you can clearly hear the difference. I've heard a fully pimped £4000 1210, with all the sought after, aftermarket bearings, external power supplies and platters etc, and the SP10 is clearly better. I know of three people who had those 1210s and changed to an SP10. I am sure they would back me up.
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Post by pete on Mar 15, 2022 11:54:11 GMT
But what Oli really needs to do, is build his Ultime, fit the Winnie and have a listen. I think he will change his mind after that. If he sells the Winnie, he may as well down grade the SP10 as well. I think i read that statement three times before I was convinced I'd read it correctly. Downgrade the SP10? Why would I do that?? The difference in performance between cartridges is nowhere near the performance differences in turntables. In fact, when you get a turntable like this one, cartridges are give the optimal condition in which to perform. Many carts are better than people think, especially when you look at the combination of TT and arm they were used on to evaluate them! I'm slightly perplexed by the notion that I should downgrade to TT too. Agree with what you are saying about the SP10 letting cartridges perform to their best. When I heard Angus's SP10 with PHAT Mk8 arm play the Windfeld it was a truly amazing experience, however the AT he then used sounded very good, but we know that the Windfeld was much, much better. For me I am happy with something somewhere between the performance of both of the cartridges.
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Post by robbiegong on Mar 15, 2022 12:04:58 GMT
I don't and the idea of downgrading to a Rega is just nuts unless you want wobbly piano notes. The downgrade from an SP10 is an SL1200.If you keep the same arm and cartridge you'd struggle to tell the difference. No chance. The 1210/1200 is nowhere near the SP10. Same arm and cart you can clearly hear the difference. I've heard a fully pimped £4000 1210, with all the sought after, aftermarket bearings, external power supplies and platters etc, and the SP10 is clearly better. I know of three people who had those 1210s and changed to an SP10. I am sure they would back me up. Have to agree based on my own experience - My 1210 had pretty much everything done, ebony armboard, Micro Seiki MA-202 tonearm with on the fly, re-wired, hybrid ceramic bearings, Big Paul Hynes off board SR7 power supply with Jaegar cable, regulator modules, Mike New bearing, Mike New ETP Platter, Isonoe isolation feet and so on. Had thousands spent on it sounded very good, but the SP10 is better, properly precise and pin point to my ears - just excellent. Modding and having the 1210 was great but knowing what I know now/hindsight etc, I would have just bought an SP10, saved myself a lot of time and money - job done. There is just not one single bad thing I can say about the SP10, it is a joy to both use and own IMO/IME.
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